Are we communists?!

[Vrach]

Because the ideal of Fascism is evil. The ideal of Communists is utopia. Not that we've ever had Communists following the ideal, but having a t-shirt with the symbol of something that has good for an ideal is nowhere near the same as wearing the symbol of something that has evil as an ideal.

Also, you can wear both (maybe not in Germany, but that's legacy of the losing side in a war). And neither will generally net you any positive opinion in the eyes of most normal people.

PS
Terrible title.

 

[v3n0mat3]

Probably because the swastika is pretty much a symbol for antisemitism.

Stalin killed millions of Russians, but I don't think their race/religion had anything to do with it (correct me if I'm wrong).

You're right. They (the government) were basically akin to the 1984 thought police. If you spoke out of line, you were either deported, imprisoned, or killed.

 

[winter2]

The Nazis went out with an intention of killing 90-98% (Estimate, anyone outside of Germany and Scandinavia without blue eyes and blonde hair was to be killed) of the world's population because they favored certain aesthetic traits.

I was just curious.. where are you getting this from exactly??

 

[BoTTeNBReKeR]

Same reason you can wear Che Guevara shirts. That guy basically ruined Cuba, was involved in countless bloody revolutions, yet he's seen by many as a hero, a goddamn freedom fighter.

 

[Thedutchjelle]

I dunno.

I own a original Red Army ushanka with a hammer/sickle on it and it looks pretty boss (don't really wear it though). Nazi-ism is here in the Netherlands associated with racism, extermination of people and nationalism (or at least, as far as I know). Their symbolism is so universally associated with bad things that it became a symbol of hate.

I don't think there is any big overarching opinion on commies here, aside from "Don't want".

 

[DanielDeFig]

This is easy.

The ideals of communism have nothing to do with racial superiority, while the German Nationalist Socialist Party (Nazis) was all about both racial and national superiority over others (by virtue of them being white Germans, and anyone who isn't is inferior.).

Communism has survived and adopted its ideals to many countries (some more successfully than others), but Nazism remains all about racial superiority, specifically superiority of white christians over anyone else(Of course christianity is a religion, and not an ethnicity, but that didn't stop the Nazis from using racism against Judaism).

Communism still has valid points to make as a political ideology in the modern, global world. Nazism doesn't (Nothing "global" about racism).

 

[gellert1984]

I think the closest anyone has ever come to communism was the UK during WW2 with rationing, you're rations were supplied based on how important the government considered your job.

 

[enzilewulf]

The way I see it is that the majority of the population (speaking as a American) that would wear that article of clothing wouldn't know what the communist symbol is. Were the swastika is commonly known as a symbol of hate and racism.

Also not many people know what the communist did after WW2. Most people in my school are not aware that the Communist were just as bad as the Nazi's.

Dude, communism doesn't technically exist. It's a freaking Utopia.

http://mythverse.com/2011/07/21/communism-a-utopia/

Your welcome.

Dude you just blew my mind.

 

[direkiller]

Guevara stood for freedom and worker's rights. He was killed and martyred before he could be associated with the authoritarian regime that came in afterwards.

he decided who was convicted of "war crimes" in Cuba
he shot "disloyal" men in his own army
when he went into a village he rounded up and shot any man suspected of being an informant
the guy was far from a saint

also i bet if you ask people that own that shirt his name and what he did probably half of them don't know.

 

[AnarchistFish]

I think the closest anyone has ever come to communism was the UK during WW2 with rationing

no

Guevara stood for freedom and worker's rights. He was killed and martyred before he could be associated with the authoritarian regime that came in afterwards.

he decided who was convicted of "war crimes" in Cuba
he shot "disloyal" men in his own army
when he went into a village he rounded up and shot any man suspected of being an informant
the guy was far from a saint

No of course not but that's irrelevant. It's what he fundamentally fought for that matters, rather than him as a person.

Same reason you can wear Che Guevara shirts. That guy basically ruined Cuba, was involved in countless bloody revolutions, yet he's seen by many as a hero, a goddamn freedom fighter.

He was a freedom fighter. The regimes he fought were authoritarian ones that suppressed their people so it'd be hard to argue that the fundamental aim of the revolutions was wrong.

Dude, communism doesn't technically exist. It's a freaking Utopia.

http://mythverse.com/2011/07/21/communism-a-utopia/

Your welcome.

That page doesn't really explain anything. It says that "stage 3" is impossible to attain but doesn't actually back itself up. Also most people who say communism is great in theory aren't talking about its implimentation. Besides, who says that's the only way to reach it?

 

[gellert1984]

I think the closest anyone has ever come to communism was the UK during WW2 with rationing

no

Fair enough, why?

 

[hooksashands]

One strange thing about the equilateral cross (swastika) is that to this day nobody knows where it truly originated. Some say it's simply St. George's cross with each end given a bent foot. Or it could be a simplified version of the Phoenician Sunwheel. Each arm (&#915 in the symbol represents a letter in the Greek alphabet (in this case 'gamma'), which is itself derived from a letter in the Phoenician one (gimel). The pre-christian Anglo-Saxons, Druids and Celts all claim to have made it too. It persists in present-day India as a universally holy symbol. It's been drawn throughout China, Syria, France, Israel, and even North America (Yes, the one before white people came).

Sadly, most just see it and think supremecist/neo-Nazi. It's history is much more complex.

I'll let someone else field the hammer and sickle.

 

[viranimus]

Mr Izzard will explain why there was a double standard and why one is ok and the other is not


Begin at 1:47 (cant figure out how to embed at a specific time stamp on a video track.)

 

[IamLEAM1983]

Probably because the swastika is pretty much a symbol for antisemitism.

As someone above me has said, I'd like to point out that the Nazis subverted a Buddhist symbol for their own uses. The swastika, if worn flat on one of its sides and not at a thirty-degree angle, actually represents universal harmony. It evokes a revolving wheel, actually, a sense of perpetual motion.

I'd also like to object to the thread's title, which is more than a little attention-grabbing for no real reason. Communism involves a subservience to the State, the collectivization of resources and, in some regimes, an idolization of the ruler. Wearing a hammer-and-sickle tee-shirt does not make you a Communist, any more than wearing a Che Guevara tee doesn't make you an anarchist or revolutionary in the making. I could wear a swastika on my shirt if I cared to, and even have it canted to the side, the way Nazis do.

I know everyone associates it to Nazism, but that's an erroneous perception. A symbol does not a creed make. Beliefs are only objectionable if they're manifested and believe me, I'd rather shoot myself than start paying attention to antisemitic drivel or fearful calls for widespread racism. It's part of the reason why Marilyn Manson had a quasi-Nazi phase in some of his costumes and set designs.

 

[AnarchistFish]

I think the closest anyone has ever come to communism was the UK during WW2 with rationing

no

Fair enough, why?

Well there was still a class system even through the war and if rations were given out based on how important people's jobs were considered to be, then that doesn't really seem to go in line with equality. Sure, maybe things were fairer but it wasn't anywhere near an equal society run by its people.

Also yeah, the Swastika was pretty much stolen by Hitler but it still doesn't taken away from that fact that people use it to promote Nazism.

 

[hooksashands]

I know everyone associates it to Nazism, but that's an erroneous perception.

Exactly. That's what I tried so hard to point out just now. =P

 

[gellert1984]

Stuff

Which is why I said 'closest'.

 

[BoTTeNBReKeR]

Same reason you can wear Che Guevara shirts. That guy basically ruined Cuba, was involved in countless bloody revolutions, yet he's seen by many as a hero, a goddamn freedom fighter.

He was a freedom fighter. The regimes he fought were authoritarian ones that suppressed their people so it'd be hard to argue that the fundamental aim of the revolutions was wrong.

Ah yes, a man who executed civilians, soldiers and police officers alike without giving them any form of trial. Yup, sounds like a good guy to me.

It matters not wether or not he was fighting for a right cause or not. It's like saying, well. Hitler did well making Germany a fascist nation cause he put Germany back on the map. But hey, the end justifies the means, right?

 

[Daverson]

Because the Swastika originated in Asia, among people who were neither aryan nor Christian. Allowing modern "nazis" (who are pretty much just plain old racists) to use this symbol would create an irony singularity, that would destroy existence as we know it?

Seriously though, saying the idea of communism should be outlawed because Stalin wasn't very nice is comparable to saying we should outlaw the idea of people supporting the British monarchy because of the actions of any one of our awful monarchs, or the idea we should outlaw opposing the British monarchy based on the actions of Cromwell...

 

[LunaSocks]

No, our economy isn't 'communist', its 'capitalist'. Communism is when the government decides what, how much, and where to produce items such as shoes, clothes, what-have-you, and they get most of the money from the sales. Capitalist, You decide what you want to make or sell, how you're going to produce it, and where you want to sell it.

That is essentially the two of the three kinds of economy (Controlled economy=Communism, Free Market Economy=capitalist) dumbed down. In fact, calling U.S. Capitalist is usually used as term of derangement, seeing as how there are still a few countries that are Communist but are slowly making changes to Capitalist.

EDIT: Also, wearing the Sickle and Hammer stuff isn't usually looked down on, because the USSR didn't try genocide and nearly succeed.