Are you freakin' kidding me?
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No, he wasn't just "some guy", he was a video game producer on stage of an E3 conference in front of thousands of press members, advertising a product by demonstrating it's intended usage.Bluezhu said:
And apparently, they believe that trash-talking your opponents with rape references, is part of that intended usage.
Yeah, those ridiculous people, who are claiming that this woman just got raped...wulfy42 said:
As opposed to the actual, straw-free people who consider her just as guilty as the man, not of rape, but of participating in a commercialized act of advertising rape-themed trash talking in video games as acceptable.
Yeah, like that, but with the responsible parties actually admitting that they wer making an offensive and inappropriate joke, and apologizing for it.DoveAlexa said:
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/technology/2013/06/microsoft-e3-rape-joke/66092/
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/technology/2013/06/microsoft-employee-rape-joke-e3-response/66132/
I'd read that again if I was you because nowhere in those two articles do they say they where sorry for it, in fact Williams herself defended the joke. Plus your claims that this is a rape joke are completely unsubstantiated and like I've said a million times before you must be looking to offended if you found any insinuation of rape in the joke.Entitled said:
Wait? That's what this was all about? I've been seeing mentions to this "horrible rape joke" all day but hadn't gotten around to actually looking into it until now.. And that... That's it? Fuck people, shut up. This is tame, this is boring, and that awkward 'joke' barely raises an eyebrow.
Jesus Christ, go back to whining about DRM and how the XBOne is going to be a blight on mankind or some shit.
Jesus Christ, go back to whining about DRM and how the XBOne is going to be a blight on mankind or some shit.
Hmmm where are you most likely to hear:
"Don't worry, this will only hurt for a second",
"It'll be over soon" &
"There, that wasn't so bad now was it?"
Being raped, or being a child getting an injection or other medical procedure.
Everyone who get's offended by those lines needs to grow up.
"Don't worry, this will only hurt for a second",
"It'll be over soon" &
"There, that wasn't so bad now was it?"
Being raped, or being a child getting an injection or other medical procedure.
Everyone who get's offended by those lines needs to grow up.
I'm sorry, but if even YOU didn't make that out as "OH THE HUE-MANATEE" something is going wrong.Calibanbutcher said:
OT: Can people not get upset over trivial things for even one day? I know we're giving the Microsoft PR department a hard time lately but even those brainless monkeys wouldn't go "Huh duh, I know what'll make da custoomer luv us, let's throw in some RAPE related humour". It's a poor choice of words as far as I'm concerned and nothing else. Are we supposed to scrutinise all fighting game banter now? I mean the amount of times i've said or been told "Give up, you'll never win" is practically uncountable, and I barely play fighting games.
While I like what you wrote, it wasn't exactly suited to this thread, yes, language is powerful, yes, people have to watch what they say, but this is not using rape in a casual way, this is taking something that had nothing to do with rape, and twisting it so that it does.FieryTrainwreck said:
Holy Shit, what the fuck is wrong with them that they thought those pictures were good ideas? Glad to see this is from a completely unbiased news site, they even tell the reader what to think in their final paragraph, you know, in case it's too hard for you (I'm sure that line could be misconstrued as well).Entitled said:
It takes a special kind of person to see a cat lying next to a kitten and think "That cat's totally going to rape that kitten."
Captcha: good day. No it isn't captcha.
EDIT: Actually, re-reading the article, THEY NEVER SAID IT WAS A RAPE JOKE. The only thing saying that it was a rape joke was the incredibly biased article, the employees admitted to nothing.
What I find truly mindblowing with this article is the way they have publicised what was, lets face it, a pretty minor controversy (in all likelihood this barely reached the radar of anyone not watching the E3 coverage)and have tried to talk it up as the biggest thing to happen at E3.
On a side note I grow increasingly tired of people being "offended" by various things and my response is this: So What?
We teach children not to take any notice when other children say something nasty, that words can't hurt them, when exactly does this stop being applicable to adults? Offence and the taking there of is a two person activity that requires the participation not only of the person who acts to cause offence, but the person who chooses to be offended. Yes i agree that deliberatly causing offence is wrong, but in situations where there was no intent to cause offence then it is as much (if not more so) the ofendee's problem.
On a side note I grow increasingly tired of people being "offended" by various things and my response is this: So What?
We teach children not to take any notice when other children say something nasty, that words can't hurt them, when exactly does this stop being applicable to adults? Offence and the taking there of is a two person activity that requires the participation not only of the person who acts to cause offence, but the person who chooses to be offended. Yes i agree that deliberatly causing offence is wrong, but in situations where there was no intent to cause offence then it is as much (if not more so) the ofendee's problem.
So if I beat another guy at a fighting game, while going "Yeah... You like that? Take it like a man." then clearly it makes me a homosexual rapist, right?
I STILL don't get why people are so surprised or outraged that gamers are considered a target worthy of discussion in context to women and sexism. Many gamers are terrible people in some cases, and the industry does little to discourage the prevalent awfulness.
There really don't seem to be very many people who were offended by this joke - personally I'm not sure it even constitutes a rape joke, or a joke atall. As a woman I wasn't offended by the "joke", as a gamer I think could have felt more legitimatley offended by the 2-dimensional steriotypical depictions of gamers as portrayed in the clip.
I couldn't agree more with your comment about offence. I used to work in HR (a few years ago) and even back then it was getting silly. I think you might appreciate this clip: http://www.snotr.com/video/8285/Steve_Hughes_-_OffendedTallanKhan said:
*waits for the rape joke. clip ends* well! it takes a special type of special to turn everything man vs women in gaming into a rape joke.
by the way, every bit of it wasn't about rape. if i have to spell it out for you, you need to go back to your english teacher and tell her/him you learned nothing. parent comforts a child getting a needle from a doctor, well the doctor was obviously raping the child with a need. intern gets a cold and is forced into work, the intern was obviously raped by the his/her boss. a kid gets beaten up by the school bully, and gets taunted while being beaten up, saying; "had enough yet?" the bully was obviously raping the other kid.
well, well, well.... please stop associating everything to rape. when both parties are putting up a front; whether it's scripted or said on the fly. both of them were on even ground. if "she" had been a "he", there wouldn't be any talk about rape. and to add to this, it's not like she broke down crying. it's not like; she told him to get out of her personal space in a virtual world. it's a game people. are we suppose to compensate her for not moving her fingers and thumbs fast enough?
men and women's hand movements are the same, you get better the more you use them. another reason why people who learned to type, are good at multi-key movement games. and those that didn't learn it, still poke slowly at their keyboard while using their computer.
i think people are too sensitive with women after 2008-10 there's just people looking for a slight hint of discomfort and call rape to it. like they just learned the word through pop-culture and never learned what it actually means, what it actually is. so they're attributing both good and bad things to it almost on a weekly basis.
just let this phase die out. don't just keep adding to it. in this day in age you can't even be be anything without someone having a problem with it. and calling it something else. i bet you anything, if you went and interviewed her about this alleged "rape" she was receiving at the live broadcast at e3. she wouldn't know what you were talking about. and it was probably brought up as a problem to the microsoft guys, so they issued an auto apology like everything. people don't realize it's much more common than you think, think of changes in nintendo from japanese to english being toned down because phrases are too harsh for american ears. (even if they're english words to begin with.)
and that's how bad it is. and just for an added tidbit, the video they're using with the phrase "wow, you like this" as fuel to this is misheard. he said those, and she responded with "no, i don't like this." him referring to the attacks, and her referring to the situation she was in at the time of speaking.
in any other context he could have been complimenting her on something, and her mind being somewhere else at the time.
monkey see monkey do. monkey calls rape, shit hits the fan and all the monkey's throw their shit. welcome to the internet. i hate that it's almost to the point where you have to show someone what rape is for them to know what rape is.
by the way, every bit of it wasn't about rape. if i have to spell it out for you, you need to go back to your english teacher and tell her/him you learned nothing. parent comforts a child getting a needle from a doctor, well the doctor was obviously raping the child with a need. intern gets a cold and is forced into work, the intern was obviously raped by the his/her boss. a kid gets beaten up by the school bully, and gets taunted while being beaten up, saying; "had enough yet?" the bully was obviously raping the other kid.
well, well, well.... please stop associating everything to rape. when both parties are putting up a front; whether it's scripted or said on the fly. both of them were on even ground. if "she" had been a "he", there wouldn't be any talk about rape. and to add to this, it's not like she broke down crying. it's not like; she told him to get out of her personal space in a virtual world. it's a game people. are we suppose to compensate her for not moving her fingers and thumbs fast enough?
men and women's hand movements are the same, you get better the more you use them. another reason why people who learned to type, are good at multi-key movement games. and those that didn't learn it, still poke slowly at their keyboard while using their computer.
i think people are too sensitive with women after 2008-10 there's just people looking for a slight hint of discomfort and call rape to it. like they just learned the word through pop-culture and never learned what it actually means, what it actually is. so they're attributing both good and bad things to it almost on a weekly basis.
just let this phase die out. don't just keep adding to it. in this day in age you can't even be be anything without someone having a problem with it. and calling it something else. i bet you anything, if you went and interviewed her about this alleged "rape" she was receiving at the live broadcast at e3. she wouldn't know what you were talking about. and it was probably brought up as a problem to the microsoft guys, so they issued an auto apology like everything. people don't realize it's much more common than you think, think of changes in nintendo from japanese to english being toned down because phrases are too harsh for american ears. (even if they're english words to begin with.)
and that's how bad it is. and just for an added tidbit, the video they're using with the phrase "wow, you like this" as fuel to this is misheard. he said those, and she responded with "no, i don't like this." him referring to the attacks, and her referring to the situation she was in at the time of speaking.
in any other context he could have been complimenting her on something, and her mind being somewhere else at the time.
monkey see monkey do. monkey calls rape, shit hits the fan and all the monkey's throw their shit. welcome to the internet. i hate that it's almost to the point where you have to show someone what rape is for them to know what rape is.
The games industry does a whole lot more to discourage such behaviour than many others. They give us the option to mute, rate and report assholes and have the power to silence/suspend and even outright ban accounts of regular offenders. This is a lot more than say, the sports industry does with their players.Quadocky said:
We even have the ability to self-police our own servers in some cases, allowing us to draw the line on what we consider acceptable and not. There are places where you can say what you want without fear and we have places where we know we can even send our kids and can guarantee they will be exposed as minimally as possible to assholes.
You have to give credit for that, at least.
I will grant that if the situation had been different, then things wouldn't be the same; though I kind of thought that was taken as granted.Piorn said:
I don't know that you have the necessary insight into the representative's mind to determine what his intentions were, but even if you do and even if he didn't intend to mention rape, so what? Is it impossible to mention something unintentionally?Piorn said:
I bother to try to reduce the number of offensive statements I hear in the future.Piorn said:
I'm sorry if this conversation upsets you, though admittedly my sympathy is very limited by the fact that you're the one who made the choice to read and participate in it. My sympathy notwithstanding, though, I am afraid I cannot in good conscience shut up. This is a matter which our society needs to address, and your attempts to silence those who wish to speak out are harmful. There is already a culture of silence, shame, and derision oppressing the victims of sexual assault, and it is not okay to perpetuate it like this.Jadak said:
None of those three things are what was actually said. Words mean things, wulf3n, and it is dishonest to change the words the Microsoft representative used so that complaining about them becomes ridiculous. Please stop it.wulf3n said:
There are a couple of mistakes here, TrulyBritish. The first is that you seem to think the entire PR department at Microsoft is being blamed, when I don't think that's the case; to all evidence, everyone insists the banter was unscripted, so the blame only falls on one man. The second mistake is that you seem to think rape jokes can only be made intentionally, by people who say to themselves, "Hey, let's joke about sexually penetrating someone who does not consent to be penetrated." I think that's a ridiculous enough idea that I needn't explain why.TrulyBritish said:
Very well, but I don't see any particular reason to accept your judgment as authoritative.TrulyBritish said:
I am pretty sure no one has suggested that, but even if they have, so what? What's the harm done by watching one's mouth?TrulyBritish said:
The representative did not say, "Give up, you'll never win." He said, "Just let it happen. It'll be over soon."TrulyBritish said:
It is not an absolute rule. Words are expressions of belief; belief informs behavior; behavior can hurt someone. In this case, making a televised rape reference indicates a belief that rape is an okay thing to bring up in friendly competition, and that belief forms the cornerstone of what is, in the specialized language of gender politics, referred to as rape culture.TallanKhan said:
What about intent mitigates result? If I don't intend to shoot you in the leg while playing with a gun, does that mean the bullet isn't still lodged in your shin regardless?TallanKhan said:
Of course not. A rapist is someone who has committed rape, and a homosexual person is one who is sexually and emotionally attracted only to members of his own sex. Making a statement fulfills neither of those qualifications, and I don't think anyone except for you has suggested that they do. What your statement does make you is someone who thinks it's okay to compare rape to losing at a video game.Product Placement said:
I agree that there's room to differ as to whether a rape joke was made, but I do wish you hadn't felt the need to mention your sex here. Was your intention to indicate that your genitals confer upon you authority to determine what should or should not offend people on this topic?GroovySpecs said:
I might consider your work in HR a more valid qualification on this topic, depending on its nature, if you'd care to expand upon this.GroovySpecs said:
Again, I do not think anyone has accused the Microsoft representative of being a rapist. We are accusing him of making a rape joke. You seem to be raging against a position no one here has taken.noahd said:
There probably would not be talk about it, but the lack of talk would not be proof that we shouldn't be talking about it. When the sexual assault of men is treated as a punchline ("Don't drop the soap!") or as a thing to be desired ("My brother's teacher is having sex with him!" "Nice!"), it is very much a conversation that would need to happen in the scenario you have presented but that is not the scenario at hand which we are discussing.noahd said:
Irrelevant. Whether his joke was about rape is not determined by her response to it.noahd said:
No one has said that except for you. You are again raging against an imaginary position.noahd said:
If you are so concerned with the state of public education regarding rape, then please, feel free to explain exactly what it is instead of complaining about an ignorance you will not correct.noahd said:
Ok.JimB said:
Where are you most likely to hear, "Just let it happen" and "It'll be over soon;" Being raped, or being a child getting an injection or other medical procedure?
You mistake intentional dishonesty with not recognising a single difference.JimB said:
Sure they do, but are you fully responsible for how every single person may interpret your words?JimB said:
I wouldn't find this an issue if it was as simple as "I got offended"
What people seem to forget in these instances is when enough people get "offended" someone's life get's ruined. And I'm not going to be responsible for ruining someone's life when they meant no harm, especially when what was said so far removed from what people are actually getting offended by.
I object to this question as being dishonest on the grounds that you are separating his two sentences as if they're two distinct sentiments rather than linked parts of a single whole, and on the grounds that likelihood is a measure of commonality, so even if one is more likely to hear those words, devoid of context, in a doctor's office than while being sexually assaulted, that in and of itself is only proof that children receiving injections is a more common occurrence than a rapist negotiating with his victim and is therefore neither explicit nor implicit proof of the representative's intent when making the statement.wulf3n said:
I offer no opinion as to whether your dishonesty is intentional; it is entirely possible to lie to oneself without knowing or recognizing it as such. I do not, however, care about your intent. I care about the effects of it that I have to deal with.wulf3n said:
I am responsible for the words I chose and for how accurately they reflect the thoughts I am attempting to communicate. If my intent is to make a funny joke about winning at a game, yet the words I chose are interpreted as an allusion to rape, then I have, at the very least, made a grievous error in how sloppily I have chosen to express myself.wulf3n said:
I haven't forgotten it; I just never bothered to consider it because I don't care. This representative's life is not my concern, responsibility, or interest. He is the one who chose his wording, and I am content to let him deal with the consequences of his choice to the best of his ability. What I am interested in and concerned with is contributing to an atmosphere where it is safe to discuss disapproval of rape without being attacked and silenced by people who don't want to hear about it.wulf3n said:
You are within your rights to choose what discussions you will participate in and what you believe about a stranger's motivations. I disagree with your priorities (I am not convinced that I agree or disagree with your stance as to the Microsoft representatives intentions), but I do not pretend I have the right, ability, or even the need to force you to continue speaking if you don't wish to.wulf3n said:
That's the only sentence I need to read from you.JimB said:
I'm so disgusted right now it's sickening.
edit:
Oh look there's something worse. Hypocrisy
Instead your contributing to an atmosphere where it isn't safe to discuss anything out of fear of misrepresentation.JimB said:
I actually think I'm going to throw up.
Many people have said they heard that or similar while undergoing medical procedures, like going to the dentist/getting shots when they were younger. The words make sense in this context. I seem to remember something similar being used in a movie/book or something during a execution (I can't remember what the thing was but I think the line was "don't worry, it will all be over soon") to makes sense in this context. What about this makes it rape? It doesn't hint at sexual assault at all, just that something is happening that you would rather not, and if you let it it will end sooner... that could refer to a myriad of things, rape being one of them. It works in the context of video games. Please don't start declaring phrases used perfectly well in a appropriate context as rape references without evidence.Darken12 said: