Are you freakin' kidding me?

[VanQ]

Let's say I want to give you this piece of cake.

I think metaphors are doomed to failure here. In the first place, your comparison asks the other person to be an active participant in the situation; it doesn't work if he doesn't take steps instead of passively absorbing what you are ostensibly forcing upon him. In the second place, cake is not penetrative, physical violence.

Let us please not muddy the issue by pretending rape and cake are similar because we can contrive situations in which a person does not want to eat cake.

Then why is it okay to pretend that non-penetrative, digital violence is akin to rape? You're completely contradicting yourself. I do not recall any penetration happening on that stage show. Just a fighting game.

 

[BathorysGraveland2]

Really? That has pissed people off? Man, I can't believe how pathetic some people have become, digging up controversy out of pretty much anything. You could probably say the least offensive thing possible and someone is still going to try their hardest to get offended by it and make a fuss. Eh, whatever. Maybe it's an attention seeking thing. Maybe it's people who want to feel good about themselves and going the wrong way about it, and fucking up in the process. Or maybe it's people who are simply bored. I don't know. It's getting intolerable though.

 

[roushutsu]

"Just let it happen. It will be over soon" can mean anything without context, but in this case I honestly don't believe that the presenters intended to make a rape joke of any kind. We shouldn't have to automatically assume rape over every little thing, even when sex has NOTHING to do with the subject at hand. If we continue to do that, eventually nobody will listen or take us seriously, even when the serious issues actually do come up and need addressing.

And to be honest, I was shaking my head more at the piss poor acting and total lack of enthusiasm while showcasing a new Killer Instinct. It's been over a decade since the last game and everyone's excited about it. Why can't you guys be?!

 

[cthulhuspawn82]

I think people who get upset at simple jokes like this are already looking for an excuse to wave the "gender war" flag and use the joke as an opportunity to do so. They love being soldiers, fighting in the war against oppression, so they create battles wherever they can just to have an excuse to carry on the fight.

 

[Bellvedere]

I don't have a problem with trash talk especially when both parties do so in good humour and I can see how it could be just friendly banter between two friends, however perhaps they should have been a bit more sensitive given that this was a professional event, screened across the world.

In terms of the actual 'rape' part:
There's a lot of ways of saying that you won against someone, that would be horrible things to do to another person physically:
I beat that guy
I smashed that guy
I dominated that guy
I destroyed that guy
I murdered that guy
I raped that guy

It's seems to be a pattern, in English at least, that isn't threatening anyone, or even intentionally degrading anyone, where the severity of the abuse indicates the decisiveness of the win. Making it sound like one of those things is physically occurring is just word play.

I'm personally not offended by it, though since others are, obviously there was a need for more sensitivity.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

I agree, but to be honest I am rather weary of this all now. It's getting to the point where it's draining my interest in discussing games at all. The Helen LoveJoy's of the gaming world have sunk their teeth in, and the gaming media are loving these sexism debates and are throwing fuel onto the fire whenever they can, because it keeps them going.

The kind of person who thinks the comments in the article were sexist isn't going to be convinced by logic, because it doesn't fit their own warped perception. You can't use reason to convince a person with a persecution complex that they aren't being victimised.

This. About a billion times this.

And the joke itself? It honestly just reminded me of this scene from Family Guy.

Spoiler: Horrible Video Quality, AWAY!

Nothing to get upset about. While I love the technology in the technological age, it really is giving people too much time to be "offended" about useless things.

 

[The-Traveling-Bard]

This is what happens with people come so morally right because they want to be seen as "good" people can't even take a joke about anything offensive.

They start attacking anything, everything, anyone who makes the slightest sammich joke and label them as a lesser dumb human. They will make no exceptions no matter what. You make a sammich joke?


You are scum. Evil. Vile. Evil and you are the problem with the world. You are what causing man to go out and beat their wives and rape women.

... And now this what we have because people can't grow a thick skin and laugh at themselves once and awhile.

 

[Uhura]

Oh, wow. I just watched a commentary video of the presentation and the dialog after the 'rapey comment' makes the situation even more awkward.

Spoiler

Jump to 1.43 and cringe!

Dunno... I just feel embarrassed watching that entire situation unfold. I don't think he really meant it 'like that', but maybe I'm too naive.

 

[JimB]

Then why is it okay to pretend that non-penetrative, digital violence is akin to rape?

I didn't say it is, but it's considerably closer, as the intent is still to victimize the other person through violence, even if it's just against a digital avatar. What I take issue with is the way you seem to be trivializing someone's feelings by comparing sexual assault to being twice offered a delicious confection. By all means, feel free to disagree with anyone who thinks the comment was a reference to rape, but please don't make fun of people for their feelings.

I do not recall any penetration happening on that stage show, just a fighting game.

I'm not sure you and I are talking about the same things. Are you assuming that when I talk about penetration, I mean vaginal penetration? If so, please let me dispel that misconception. I'm talking about insertion of foreign objects into another person's body, whether they be arms that have transformed to icicle spears or a werewolf's claws or a ninja's sword or what have you.

 

[CarlsonAndPeeters]

The failure of people to see how this is even remotely problematic makes me not want to go on forums anymore...

A few things I agree with: yes, a lot of coverage of this is blown out of proportion. Yes, it should not matter that she was a girl. Yes, the guy probably didn't mean anything by it and it was just dumb scripted dialogue.

BUT this is an issue worth talking about. This is an example of how pervasive rape culture is. That a taunt, "all-in-good-fun," derives directly from language used to dominate and hurt people. Doesn't matter if its a girl or a guy, the winner is saying "haha rape" and that's the whole joke. That's the fun. Like, I have no problem with stand up comedians or whoever making occasional rape jokes; you have to be able to laugh at everything. But when people are just like, "hey, rape, that shit's hilarious, right?" it pisses me off. It's something he shouldn't have said--it's not the end of the world, but he shouldn't have said it--and people shouldn't treat it like a crime but they should be comfortable saying, "That's not okay."

What bothers me about this community, the "gaming community," is that it reacts very harshly, in a binary, to issues like rape culture and sexism. Just because you have the right to say whatever you want doesn't mean you should. When people complain about dialogues or sexist themes in games, they aren't saying people that use some language or enjoy/make some games are bad people; they are just trying to show that this stuff can actually affect other peoples. And the general response to that is, "SHUT UP" and no one learns anything. No progress can be made when everything instantly turns into a shouting match about how stupid the other side is.

I personally will say I didn't use to take rape culture seriously as an issue, and then had my eyes opened through interactions with a friend who I offended. I didn't mean to offend her, and she knew that, but she politely told me that the language I had used was in poor taste. Now I try to avoid similar language because you never know what experiences people around you have been through. I'm not saying to censor yourself or be PC all the time--I'm certainly not--but just think about it, be considerate, and try to be nice.

TL;DR -- Everything is complicated and why don't we listen to each other and be friendly and happy?

 

[VanQ]

Then why is it okay to pretend that non-penetrative, digital violence is akin to rape?

I didn't say it is, but it's considerably closer, as the intent is still to victimize the other person through violence, even if it's just against a digital avatar. What I take issue with is the way you seem to be trivializing someone's feelings by comparing sexual assault to being twice offered a delicious confection. By all means, feel free to disagree with anyone who thinks the comment was a reference to rape, but please don't make fun of people for their feelings.

Nobody was a victim in this situation! Nobody is "victimised" when playing a game. You can win, you can lose. The only problem people have is that a man beat a woman and smack talked while doing so.

 

[JimB]

It's something he shouldn't have said--it's not the end of the world, but he shouldn't have said it--and people shouldn't treat it like a crime but they should be comfortable saying, "That's not okay."

Well said. You made my point much better than I did.

Nobody was a victim in this situation! Nobody is "victimized" when playing a game.

In physical reality? Of course you're right. Ontology is not the only valid lens for viewing this event, though. The man, at least, seemed to be role-playing somewhat; projecting his character's success onto himself and his opponent's loss onto her, to the degree that he thought it was okay to speak to her as if she was her character, and to do so using language that is questionably well thought out.

The only problem people have is that a man beat a woman and smack talked while doing so.

Please do not tell me what my problem is with this situation, or even how many problems I have with it. In the first place, you have neither the authority nor the ability to speak my mind, and I find it offensively presumptuous; in the second place, by making such an absolute statement, you seem to be trying to silence your opponents in the discussion with shame, ridicule, and derision as your weapons of choice. When we're talking about rape, those are extremely hurtful weapons to use. They're the same weapons used by the community who drove that poor girl to suicide for claiming she was raped by her local high school's sports team when they filmed the rape and disseminated it across the internet, and they're the weapons used to silence most of the victims whose cases did not receive national coverage like hers.

 

[mysecondlife]

That's the rape joke???

How stupid.

 

[VanQ]

Nobody was a victim in this situation! Nobody is "victimized" when playing a game.

In physical reality? Of course you're right. Ontology is not the only valid lens for viewing this event, though. The man, at least, seemed to be role-playing somewhat; projecting his character's success onto himself and his opponent's loss onto her, to the degree that he thought it was okay to speak to her as if she was her character, and to do so using language that is questionably well thought out.

If you want to get into the metaphysics and assume he was simply self-inserting into his character at the time, then all he was doing was beating the crap out of an anthropomorphic wolf. And then made a victory pose before the wolf got up and beat the crap out of him. Thus, confirming my point, that there is no rape involved in this case whatsoever except for the rape imposed upon it by the audience.

The only problem people have is that a man beat a woman and smack talked while doing so.

Please do not tell me what my problem is with this situation, or even how many problems I have with it. In the first place, you have neither the authority nor the ability to speak my mind, and I find it offensively presumptuous; in the second place, by making such an absolute statement, you seem to be trying to silence your opponents in the discussion with shame, ridicule, and derision as your weapons of choice. When we're talking about rape, those are extremely hurtful weapons to use. They're the same weapons used by the community who drove that poor girl to suicide for claiming she was raped by her local high school's sports team when they filmed the rape and disseminated it across the internet, and they're the weapons used to silence most of the victims whose cases did not receive national coverage like hers.

You're right, I'm sorry. What I should have said was that as far as I can tell, the only issue that the writer of the article in question was that a woman was defeated by a man while he smack talked.

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

No really, this has to be a joke right? Right? Someone tell me this is satire.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/technology/2013/06/microsoft-e3-rape-joke/66092/

God damn it. This is what we've become? Really? I don't care anymore, you can't say anything without being called a misogynist by gamers any more. And god forbid you beat a girl in a game, that's rape! Who cares about having a good time when a girl doesn't like that you're winning at a game! You're a filthy rapist! No one cares if she won the next round or that the game was scripted! If you're a man and you play games, you're a sexist by default.

Maybe I'm overreacting a bit here, sure. But no more so than the people crying rape because a few words were poorly strung together and might imply something in an entirely different context. It's honestly enraging when you have to hold your tongue constantly lest someone who is easily offended comes along and makes you out to be some intolerant asshole.

My head hurts. Ugh.

um.... no, dude. It was definitely a rape joke. The article you linked even has further links where the participants admit this. The thing is, had this guy said it privately, I'd be on this "defend the joke" front with you. But a public press conference is NOT an acceptable place for a rape joke. Were it a less public engagement, or at least an engagement where such humor is expected, then it'd be fine.

So i don't think the guy is terrible for saying it, but he's pretty dumb to have said it THERE. and good on the woman for standing up for her friend

 

[Racecarlock]

Guys, have you seen the fat ugly or slutty website? It seems that most people think "Show me your titties" is the only way to greet a woman on there. This guy is not that bad.

Edit: Plus, don't you think by "It" he might of meant, I don't know, THE ROUND OF THE FIGHTING GAME THEY WERE PLAYING?! Impossible, right? Had to be a rape joke.

 

[Yopaz]

I honestly wouldn't have thought much of it if rape wasn't mentioned in the article right after the comment. I've been accused of having a perverted sense of humour, but I didn't grasp that one.

Oh well, people need something to get their engines running. Microsoft is as good as any to whine at.

 

[bojackx]

I just can't fathom how people care about this so much, it's honestly pathetic. As much as I hate the term "I have lost faith in humanity" this is about the most I've ever come to saying it. Much worse stuff has been said an infinite amount of times, and people who honestly feel the need to go after this guy because he made a weak rape joke towards a woman probably has an incredibly warped view of gender equality.

 

[JimB]

If you want to get into the metaphysics and assume he was simply self-inserting into his character at the time, then all he was doing was beating the crap out of an anthropomorphic wolf.

I'm not talking about metaphysics; I'm talking about how he was behaving in context. He spoke to a real person as if she was the imaginary person on the screen and thought that justified commanding the real person to lay down and passively accept the violent intent of his imaginary character on hers. I don't think I'm the one blurring the lines between fantasy and reality; I think he did.

There is no rape involved in this case whatsoever except for the rape imposed upon it by the audience.

I don't think anyone is arguing that an actual, physical, literal rape took place. I think the complaint is against his allusion to rape; against him believing that it is okay to, in a friendly competition designed to showcase new technology to a buying public, make jokes with a punchline of "Ha ha! Rape!"

You're right, I'm sorry.

Thank you, VanQ. Your apology contains a level of class I'm not at all used to seeing in internet debates about feminism and rape culture in the video games community, and not only do I appreciate it, I want to underscore it and praise you for it.

EDIT: I didn't want to make a new post for this response.

I just can't fathom how people care about this so much; it's honestly pathetic.

Having priorities that differ from yours is not pathetic. Please do not behave as if your grasp on sexual politics is the only valid one.

Much worse stuff has been said an infinite amount of times.

Let's not get tangled up in moral relativism. That something else was worse does mean a bad thing isn't bad on its own. If it does, then the Holocaust is the only event in human history we can safely complain about, because anything else we can dismiss on the grounds that "much worse stuff has been done before."

People who honestly feel the need to go after this guy because he made a weak rape joke toward a woman probably have an incredibly warped view of gender equality.

Why do you feel the need to dismiss not the arguments people have against this incident, but the people who make the arguments in the first place? Are you speaking from some sort of enmity here, or do you simply want to invalidate any future arguments by saying only people with warped minds would ever bother formulating them in the first place?

 

[JazzJack2]

I think the complaint is against his allusion to rape; against him believing that it is okay to, in a friendly competition designed to showcase new technology to a buying public, make jokes with a punchline of "Ha ha! Rape!"

I am sorry? HIS allusion to rape? The only people who alluded to rape where a few select members of audience who where simply looking to be offended, what he said had no connotations of rape or sexual assault.