Artificial intelligence-why?

[kortin]

Because the Quarians are really just humans in the future. We must make sure all the events occur as they should.

 

[deadish]

Well, the brain isn't turing-complete. In order for a computer to be a computer, it must be turing-complete.

Wait? What?!

My brain can simulate a single tape turning machine, which is the definition of a turning-complete, just fine thank you very much.

No it can't.

LOL.

Dude, if we can't simulate a tuning machine in our heads, we won't be able to understand it much less build one.

PS: Oh yes, I don't recall anywhere stating that computers have to be turning-complete to be called computers.

I'm sorry, I mean that the human brain cannot simulate every possible turing machine, whereas a computer can. That may not be "turing-complete"-ness but I can't recall what it is.

I do know that that is a fundamental difference between human brains and computers

OK, let me put it this way. Almost computers we use now are turing complete. And yes I can simulate the operation of one in my head, else I won't be able to program them.

 

[Hagi]

Well, the brain isn't turing-complete. In order for a computer to be a computer, it must be turing-complete.

Wait? What?!

My brain can simulate a single tape turning machine, which is the definition of a turning-complete, just fine thank you very much.

No it can't.

LOL.

Dude, if we can't simulate a tuning machine in our heads, we won't be able to understand it much less build one.

PS: Oh yes, I don't recall anywhere stating that computers have to be turning-complete to be called computers.

I'm sorry, I mean that the human brain cannot simulate every possible turing machine, whereas a computer can. That may not be "turing-complete"-ness but I can't recall what it is.

I do know that that is a fundamental difference between human brains and computers

Do you even know what a Turing machine is?

The human brain is easily capable of simulating every single possible turing machine.

It will do so at stupidly slow speeds but it's not exactly rocket science.

All a Turing machine does is provide an output based upon an input and an internal state. A child could simulate it without any problems if it weren't for it being as boring as can be.

All you do is have one sheet of paper as your input, which is encoded in a certain way as known by you. Then you've got another sheet of paper which is your internal state, probably in binary but can be anything you want. And a last sheet of paper which is your output.

You read each line of input, perform the basic mathematical operations encoded upon your internal state and write the result onto your output-sheet. Congratulations, you're simulating an universal Turing machine. You could even do it without the paper if you've got a very good memory.

The only thing we can't do is simulate a Turing machine at 4 GHz. But at a speed of 0,1 Hz? Easy.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Its simple,cheaper work force.

 

[RobDaBank]

You could send probes to planets to check if they are habitable, allowing the AI to choose where to go to take, analyse and report rock samples, water pH and things such as that. This is something that we can do, but may take lifetimes to accomplish, meaning we are sacrificing people for the risk of finding nothing, who in turn would have to procreate and educate their children in order to carry out the task when they arrive at their destination.

AI systems with facial recognition software could be used to analyse the millions of hours of CCTV footage in order to track down criminals saving on valuable manpower.

Ai bomb disposal units, or even infiltration units, and even aircraft (like the film stealth)

AI refuse sorters to gather recyclable materials

There are alot of applications that could either save time, or replace the need for risking a human life and that is fundamentally the point.

 

[Daverson]

Humans are proof that strong intelligence can exist. If it can be printed on meat, it can be printed on circuitry.

There is a problem with strong AI, though. We have absolutely no idea what sort of alien moral code strong AI might create for itself. Even with careful design, advanced programs are prone to unforeseen glitches (just look at anything Bethesda have made over the past few years!). Given that such a construct would effectively be as close to a God as we're likely to see in our lifetimes, it's essential that we build it right, otherwise we're roll the dice on our own extinction.

It seems to me the best way would be to build your supercomputer around a human brain. By choosing the right candidate for this, we could effectively ensure that necessary values for future human prosperity are preserved.

 

[Rowan93]

"Deserve", "proper" and "superior" are all purely subjective words like should, which only have meaning when you're coming from a particular perspective. Being a human, I don't give a flying fuck about non-human-centric perspectives. And of course, "objective" perspectives are fucking bullshit. So what is your point supposed to be?

Oh look, it's the Lebowski Defense: "That's just, like, your opinion, man".

Please try again.

Well, it is just your opinion, because it's a subjective thing. You can't just dismiss that with a wave of a hand and a reference to a film. And you didn't answer my question!

 

[zehydra]

In order to hate you humanity, you must hate yourself

No, not really. For one thing, I don't think I'm human. For another, it's possible to hate a whole without hating every one of its components; for example, I hate Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, but I've had Jewish and Christian friends toward whom I felt only moderate annoyance.

"Deserve", "proper" and "superior" are all purely subjective words like should, which only have meaning when you're coming from a particular perspective. Being a human, I don't give a flying fuck about non-human-centric perspectives. And of course, "objective" perspectives are fucking bullshit. So what is your point supposed to be?

Oh look, it's the Lebowski Defense: "That's just, like, your opinion, man".

Please try again.

"No, not really. For one thing, I don't think I'm human."

uh oh. Well, I really have nothing left to say here.

 

[General Twinkletoes]

The same reason we just landed a big ass rover on Mars.
Because progress is cool.
Also the thousands of applications that more advanced computers have.

 

[Lukirre]

Yes. I absolutely hope that we will have sentient artificial beings. I also believe that, even if similar to us intellectually, they will be far superior to us in the same way that we are superior to other animals on this planet.

People watch too many movies or read too many bad science fiction novels and somehow come to the conclusion that evolution means survival of the fittest and the destruction of everything else. Logically, there is no value in destroying a planet and its inhabitants with a full-scale war. The only reason an AI would come to the conclusion that, yes, this is absolutely what must happen, is because it was either programmed in or the AI has been subjected to horrible treatment/brainwashing while it was developing.

And I know what people are thinking. "Humans have been horrible to other species on this planet! We abuse/murder them constantly!"

And that's true. Humans have been horrible to other species and its own, but as humans have become more intelligent, the need for violence and intentional suffering has faded. It's not like they're going to need to herd us like livestock for food.

I look at AI's as being nothing other than very advanced human beings. Far more intelligent and less dependent on violence and war.

There's also the question of whether or not human beings themselves could be upgraded as a sort of cyborg to the state of AI's/androids. Although I don't think that humans would treat that power very well, unless of course it also upgraded their intelligence to the point where they saw the uselessness of corruption and violence.

 

[SpectacularWebHead]

I need someone to love me and people won't, thus we need AI's.

purely for my benefit.

 

[Lukirre]

Your human arrogance disgusts me. Can you fly? Do you have sonar? Can you regenerate lost limbs? Are you coated in a crunchy exoskeleton to protect your squishy insides? No? You have a big brain and opposable thumbs, and that's it?

*squishes the human*

You're definitely right, and I didn't mean to say that there aren't other impressive species on this planet. But as a whole I think that humanity has proven itself more capable in its ability to provide creations to make up for its lack of interesting features.

Maybe I just hope that we develop AI's because I fear the day insects gain sentience. I mean, I've seen Starship Troopers, man. I have seen some shit.

 

[chadachada123]

An AI, if created by science, would be objective and unbiased. It could coordinate resources from a wide range of sources and determine the best allocation while leaving politics out of it.

Give it some input, and it'll spit out the best option for maximizing whatever it is you're looking to maximize.

It could, for example, figure out the cheapest way to end world hunger (and could even do so with constraints like 'don't directly kill any humans in the process'). This is something that humanity has a hard time with because we are greedy, power-hungry fucks. Give the power to a machine, though, and it will give the best option for ALL of humanity and not just individual humans.

 

[II2]

Good video, semi related. Automated "algo trading" or "black box trading" on Wallstreet and Hong Kong. Scary and interesting.

 

[Palfreyfish]

That's what I was getting at. What are your thoughts on the internet one day perhaps becoming sentient?

The Internet itself - no, I don't see it happening at least not soon or easy. However, being used as vehicle, or cradle, if you will, for sentience - yes, that is more of a possibility. I did mention agents before, they could very well crawl the net and pull enough information together to create something that thinks.

Well, I haven't actually looked into it enough, but that's just the general feeling I have - the Internet itself is largely...well, unconnected in the ways that would predispose it to self awareness. There is information exchanged but very predictable and boring. Something operating from inside there has a better shot.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. Although at the same time, the internet is not dissimilar to a brain, in that it's lots of interconnected nodes which store information, but as it is there's nothing that connects it in the way you mentioned. Is something like that even possible?

 

[DoPo]

That's what I was getting at. What are your thoughts on the internet one day perhaps becoming sentient?

The Internet itself - no, I don't see it happening at least not soon or easy. However, being used as vehicle, or cradle, if you will, for sentience - yes, that is more of a possibility. I did mention agents before, they could very well crawl the net and pull enough information together to create something that thinks.

Well, I haven't actually looked into it enough, but that's just the general feeling I have - the Internet itself is largely...well, unconnected in the ways that would predispose it to self awareness. There is information exchanged but very predictable and boring. Something operating from inside there has a better shot.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. Although at the same time, the internet is not dissimilar to a brain, in that it's lots of interconnected nodes which store information, but as it is there's nothing that connects it in the way you mentioned. Is something like that even possible?

Hmm, I'm not going to outright say "No", but I'll go for "very unlikely". As I said, I have to look into it more, to answer properly, but the large portions of the Internet are certainly not predisposed to "awakening" to intelligence. They are even less capable than cockroaches or whatever-else-low-life-form-have-you's brain, which also does roughly what the human one does. The information is there, but never regarded as a whole cohesive body. It gets a great leap of logic to get from an FTP server with techno MP3s and a Wikipedia article on Mozart to the concept of "music", as a very simple example. There needs to be something working on top of that information, so it can "understand" it. But even then, it's a lot of things to understand. You're looking at an approximate shitload of bytes, all of it completely random to whatever observer. One sequence of bytes is a song, another - a video, a third - just some letters, fourth - might not have any meaning. And there is no inherent way to "guess" which is which. You can see how it's easier for something else to use the Internet - the information is there, but it only needs to operate inside to get to it.

However that's not all of the Internet - it's a large place after all. It might be possible that portions of it are capable of becoming self-aware. But that's pure speculation on my part - I'm saying that it's possible the conditions are there but I have no idea if they are. It could be something like cloud computing - you have a portion of the Internet, sure, but you can have some meta-operations on top of it easily. Over time, the meta-operation gradually starts to see itself as a whole (or close enough) and gains "understanding" of some sort about "everything else". Thus self-awareness. Although, I find it also unlikely to be an accident - it could be that some AI people set it up and were waiting for results.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

Why? Because we're people. It's instinctive for us to push boundaries and mass with shit. If people had never done anything unless they could clearly see a logical payoff to doing it we'd have barely discovered anything at all. We are programmed to experiment and take risks. Some experiments can go wrong and have horrific unseen consequences, but it's all part of the big evolutionary game of snakes and ladders, and trying to get us not to play is like trying to get a sparrow not to fly.

 

[Wado Rhyu]

couple of things are wrong with your post.

for off: your definition of a A.I. we dont know what it is.

but to continu with your definition. it could do those things if we let him but the systeems you are talking about are better of with a deticated control systeem.

so what can we use it for? we could let it think. now this doesnt sound so special but we will have something that can think and live forever. so it can advance our understanding of everything threw sience. we could have a systeem that can teach us new things.

also it would be cool.


srry for bad grammar

 

[Palfreyfish]

That's what I was getting at. What are your thoughts on the internet one day perhaps becoming sentient?

The Internet itself - no, I don't see it happening at least not soon or easy. However, being used as vehicle, or cradle, if you will, for sentience - yes, that is more of a possibility. I did mention agents before, they could very well crawl the net and pull enough information together to create something that thinks.

Well, I haven't actually looked into it enough, but that's just the general feeling I have - the Internet itself is largely...well, unconnected in the ways that would predispose it to self awareness. There is information exchanged but very predictable and boring. Something operating from inside there has a better shot.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. Although at the same time, the internet is not dissimilar to a brain, in that it's lots of interconnected nodes which store information, but as it is there's nothing that connects it in the way you mentioned. Is something like that even possible?

Hmm, I'm not going to outright say "No", but I'll go for "very unlikely". As I said, I have to look into it more, to answer properly, but the large portions of the Internet are certainly not predisposed to "awakening" to intelligence. They are even less capable than cockroaches or whatever-else-low-life-form-have-you's brain, which also does roughly what the human one does. The information is there, but never regarded as a whole cohesive body. It gets a great leap of logic to get from an FTP server with techno MP3s and a Wikipedia article on Mozart to the concept of "music", as a very simple example. There needs to be something working on top of that information, so it can "understand" it. But even then, it's a lot of things to understand. You're looking at an approximate shitload of bytes, all of it completely random to whatever observer. One sequence of bytes is a song, another - a video, a third - just some letters, fourth - might not have any meaning. And there is no inherent way to "guess" which is which. You can see how it's easier for something else to use the Internet - the information is there, but it only needs to operate inside to get to it.

However that's not all of the Internet - it's a large place after all. It might be possible that portions of it are capable of becoming self-aware. But that's pure speculation on my part - I'm saying that it's possible the conditions are there but I have no idea if they are. It could be something like cloud computing - you have a portion of the Internet, sure, but you can have some meta-operations on top of it easily. Over time, the meta-operation gradually starts to see itself as a whole (or close enough) and gains "understanding" of some sort about "everything else". Thus self-awareness. Although, I find it also unlikely to be an accident - it could be that some AI people set it up and were waiting for results.

Aside from a thank you for such a fantastic reply, I don't really have much to respond with, as you countered your own points in the second paragraph.

 

[FantomOmega]

If it follows Ghost in the Shell in how we handle technology then I'm ALL for it

But if some Idiot decides to copy Judgement Day well Fuck THAT!!

We have probably thought up all possible scenarios in movies and video games on a robot apocalypse to NOT be able to prevent it OR fight the robots before they could get a decent foothold to overrun us

We as a species (humans) cant even get along with each other well because of differences (skin color, religion, culture, even your own opinions) so I would hate to see how we would react to the cold shiny automaton with the capability to crush every bone in your body like wet cardboard and IF they somehow made themselves to look so human-like that we cant tell the difference we will stall hate them for outperforming us in everything and taking our jobs (heck! they already doing that and they're not even sentient yet!)