Depends on whether you were doing something that suggested you didn't think all people are equal like, oh I don't know, killing and eating them. Then yeah, that might become a statement you'd need to defend.WinterWyvern said:
Baby Dolphin killed as tourists yank it out of the ocean to take a selfie
- Thread starter Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)
- Start date
Personally, I'm rather glad. The discussion of animal cruelty overall and the ethics of our own support of it, or lack there of, has far more merit than an entire thread of:tf2godz said:
"These people are morons!"
"What vain idiots."
"What a bunch of idiots."
"What arseholes."
"I hope they fucking die."
"I've lost faith in humanity."
and variations of that. There's not really much to discuss in the original topic, unless anyone here wants to argue that they aren't a bunch of cretins for doing something this stupid.
If I could I would torture and kill every fly that exists and have ever existed. Annoying little bastards.SweetShark said:
Animals also don't whine at me about how they're morally justified in doing what they do, and that I have no right to judge. I suspect I did more than make you laugh, seeing as you started this argument with me trying to rationalise your position to me =)WinterWyvern said:
But that logic goes out the window the second it threatens to inconvenience you. Then suddenly it's okay to do something because animals do it too!WinterWyvern said:
Not so hot to kill them all, but the big female ones are must.Risingblade said:
I just wanted to make a point about our nature as humans.
I hope one day an Intergalactic Ancient Entity kill the Human Race just because it wanted to take a sh*t to our planet.
I went to the big aquarium in Boston once. They had, in a small tank set inside a wall, a display of an octopus who lived fairly deep in the water and had a darkened tank because of it; his skin was not adapted to surface-dweller levels of light, so light was painful for him. The friend who took me to the aquarium is a scientist with an interest in marine biology, so he had a lot of behind-the-scenes privileges at the aquarium as well as friends working there, and confided in me that this particular octopus was so intelligent his food had to be given to him in puzzle boxes (I never got to see an example of that, so I'm not quite sure what that means) so he'd have to challenge his mind to get the food out, or else he'd get bored and/or depressed and refuse to eat.
While we were in the area of his display, which of course had a big sign mounted on the wall next to it telling people not to do exactly this, a pair of frat boys came over, couldn't see the octopus in the darkness, pulled out their phones, and started strobing their cameras' flashes to try to illuminate the tank (I don't know if their phones just didn't have a steady flashlight option or what). My friend just about got into a fist fight, and I had to lead him away in order to keep him from doing something that would require police attention. In retrospect, I regret that. I was concerned for my friend at the time, but I think he could have taken a rap on the knuckles better than the octopus could have taken more assholes burning his skin.
So the point of this story is, I am saddened to learn people used their cameras as a murder instrument against a sea creature that had done them no harm but had to die to appease their desire for entertainment; but I am not surprised.
(Also, I am boycotting tuna, albeit less for the sake of dolphins than because I hear commercial tuna fishing is pushing some species of tuna to the brink of extinction. I miss tuna melts.)
While we were in the area of his display, which of course had a big sign mounted on the wall next to it telling people not to do exactly this, a pair of frat boys came over, couldn't see the octopus in the darkness, pulled out their phones, and started strobing their cameras' flashes to try to illuminate the tank (I don't know if their phones just didn't have a steady flashlight option or what). My friend just about got into a fist fight, and I had to lead him away in order to keep him from doing something that would require police attention. In retrospect, I regret that. I was concerned for my friend at the time, but I think he could have taken a rap on the knuckles better than the octopus could have taken more assholes burning his skin.
So the point of this story is, I am saddened to learn people used their cameras as a murder instrument against a sea creature that had done them no harm but had to die to appease their desire for entertainment; but I am not surprised.
(Also, I am boycotting tuna, albeit less for the sake of dolphins than because I hear commercial tuna fishing is pushing some species of tuna to the brink of extinction. I miss tuna melts.)
In court this difference would be manslaughter versus murder. I think this is bad. So it the use of aggressive fishing methods and unnecessary cruelty against animals in meat production, but I can kinda see your point. This isn't the worst to happen to dolphins, but it is deliberate and very visual.RiseOfTheWhiteWolf said:
Don't bullshit yourself. We do not need to slaughter cows for food and we don't slaughter cows for food. Producing food is far more efficient if your food doesn't itself eat more food than it'll ever turn into. We slaughter (and threat poorly by life) cows because we like the taste better than that of bread and potatoes. That reason isn't any better than wanting to take a picture.Digi7 said:
If such an entirely frivolous reason as the better taste of your meals justifies killing something, I see no reason why a nice picture doesn't justify it.
Animals are rarely killed because we need food. They are killed because they taste better than other kinds of food we eat that could serve us just fine, is less likely to lead to antibiotic resistant diseases, and doesn't eat more food than it ever becomes.NPC009 said:
I will say that most of them are. Or at least, most of them don't care enough to check where their meat comes from. So it's some fairly mild disapproval you are talking about here.NPC009 said:
Somebody already pointed out how weird it is to make stupidity or intelligence a moral criterium. You might as well claim that chess computers are very morally precious if you want to take that line. As for dolphins altruistic deeds, I don't think that having done good (let alone someone of your species having done good) makes you suddenly more morally relevant than you were. As for the rest of your reply, I can respect that you try to act on what you believe but I do think you have some inconsistent views about the matter.Neverhoodian said:
Maybe its just me but the idea of a class of beings that are only slightly morally relevant just doesn't make any sense to me. Either we shouldn't interfere with the autonomy of animals or not cause them pain or whatever you think the issue is, or we are allowed to do such things. I'm a bit confused that you are allowed to go out and shoot a deer under certain circumstances because you like how it tastes, but you can't kill it for your amusement. Because your taste is more important than your amusement apperently. (And before, like two others before you, you pretend you need to kill animals to eat, no you don't)
I perhaps should underscore how we wouldn't cause our hypothetical deer some slight discomfort. We'd straight up kill it. Meaning its life has less value to us than the taste of our meals. This doesn't seem like the grey area many people want to pretend it is. Killing another person is generally considered one of the worst things you can do to them, well over any line of what is normally acceptable. Killing an animal can be done for so frivolous a reason as a slightly better tasting meal. But apperently we should then feel great moral discust when an animal gets killed for a selfie.
I can understand the view that some animals matter and others don't. (say apes and dolphins matter, but cows apparently don't) I don't know how we go about discerning one type of animal from the other but I could see that making some sense. But saying that murder for taste is allowed against animals but murder for entertainment clearly goes too far just bewilders me.
Dear Selfie Takers,
Instead of taking pictures with marine life [footnote]you know animals that need to stay in the water in order to survive[/footnote], regardless of whether they are alive or dead, perhaps you should stick to things that are much more adept at surviving on land. I hear that rattlesnakes really REALLY enjoy being wrapped around your neck for your latest selfie.
Sincerely,
Gen Gen your Friend Friend
[hr]
It might be my age but I've tried to understand the selfie craze. To me, it feels like it's a level of self absorption that shouldn't exist in the first place. Who really looks at selfies? As far as my personal taste, selfies go in the same pile as pictures of your vacation, pictures of what you had for diner and the latest-cutest-picture-ever or your child.
Instead of taking pictures with marine life [footnote]you know animals that need to stay in the water in order to survive[/footnote], regardless of whether they are alive or dead, perhaps you should stick to things that are much more adept at surviving on land. I hear that rattlesnakes really REALLY enjoy being wrapped around your neck for your latest selfie.
Sincerely,
Gen Gen your Friend Friend
[hr]
It might be my age but I've tried to understand the selfie craze. To me, it feels like it's a level of self absorption that shouldn't exist in the first place. Who really looks at selfies? As far as my personal taste, selfies go in the same pile as pictures of your vacation, pictures of what you had for diner and the latest-cutest-picture-ever or your child.
To be fair, you're still getting nutrients from that meat. You can't eat your you & dead baby dolphin selfie.Pseudonym said:
In any case, I think you shouldn't judge people solely on the type of the things they eat. Just saying you eat meat says nothing about the type of meat, the means by which it was produced or the quantity. Sure, you could be a dick and assume anyone who eats meat is some sort of BBQ nut who doesn't care what they put in their mouth as long as it's meat, but you know what they say about assuming.