Bad Anime...

[Nalfen]

Recently I (with a few friends) have started to watch some truly horrible anime that is popular for reasons beyond us. Like this isn't just us saying "oh we don't like this kind of anime so we hate it" or "we hate it BECAUSE it's popular" I mean I love say Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, and a lot of other anime which is reasonably popular, not ALL popular anime is bad...just a lot of it. It's instead us looking at it from different perspectives and trying to see in what regards it doesn't suck even if we're not interested in it. In most cases so far we have been unable to figure out a reason why people like horrible anime other than, "It's made in Japan which means it must be art and people just won't understand it."

I guess my question is why do people love anime that fails on so many basic storytelling levels, things like a plot, characters that have even one defining character trait (seriously, The Phantom Menace had more defined characters than the crap we're watching), in some cases any sort of consistency, and not cutting back on the animation budget so hard that you're basically watching stick figures (you know, like the "shot, reverse shot" which is a popular technique but in anime they do it backwards so they don't have to draw people talking, or close ups on peoples unblinking eyes so they don't have to draw anything else in the scene).

And to be clear I'm debating if I should add in what anime I'm talking about just because, as I said above the different anime we're watching and think is terrible is VERY popular in some cases and so I would like to avoid people just trying to flame me for ripping on an anime they like as anime fans that I've encountered tend to do. I just want peoples honest opinions as to why a lot people love horrible anime.

TLR: Why are so many horrible anime extremely popular.

 

[Grell Sutcliff]

I'm going to need the name of the anime if I'm going to be able to tell you what's good about it.

 

[ZiggyE]

You're making it sound like this problem is exclusive to anime.

Most anime is bad, just like most movies are bad, most games are bad and most TV shows are bad.

 

[The Wooster]

The simple truth is that 95% of everything is complete and utter shit.

The reason anime seems so bad these days is because we're no longer just getting the cream of the crop that companies thought to license. There's a sub group or distribution company dedicated to nearly every title released so we're now seeing most, if not all, of the medium. And most of it sucks.

That isn't to say it all sucks. There's been some absolutely fantastic shows in the past few years.

Paranoia Agent.
GITS: Stand Alone Complex
Welcome to the NHK (pretty much the best show in the last decade)
Eureka 7
Full Metal Alchemist (So good they had to do it twice)
etc etc

But I do agree with you to a degree, op. Some of the popular shows out there just boggle my mind. Lucky Star, in particular, seems completely irredeemable.

 

[Nalfen]

Two examples of what I've seen recently is Serial Experiments Lain and Elfen Lied. I'm aware that people have differing opinions but it's when people are claiming it's amazing when it fails to do even the simplest of storytelling and claiming that it's worthy of worship and is without flaws that I take issue with it...also when people try to pass off bad animation as "art". Another couple of anime we're getting to is Axis Powers Hetalia, Shuffle, Narutaru, and Higurashi.

Edit: By getting to I mean we haven't seen all of it yet, and there are more we have these are just a few.

 

[ZiggyE]

Two examples of what I've seen recently is Serial Experiments Lain and Elfen Lied.

Woah woah woah back up. Yes, Elfen Lied is horrible but Serial Experiments Lain? I understand that it's not everyone's cup of tea and that the pacing is slow and I wouldn't call it a 'masterpiece' (there's nothing I'd call a masterpiece) but Serial Experiments Lain is intelligently written with powerful execution.

 

[Nalfen]

Two examples of what I've seen recently is Serial Experiments Lain and Elfen Lied.

Woah woah woah back up. Yes, Elfen Lied is horrible but Serial Experiments Lain? I understand that it's not everyone's cup of tea and that the pacing is slow and I wouldn't call it a 'masterpiece' (there's nothing I'd call a masterpiece) but Serial Experiments Lain is intelligently written with powerful execution.

What is powerful? I honestly saw nothing in this that wasn't executed better in even the Matrix or Tron and in Lain I honestly could not tell you what the plot was until about episode 10 and there was only one character in that series (arisu) who had any defining character trait at all. So what exactly makes it powerful?

 

[ZiggyE]

Two examples of what I've seen recently is Serial Experiments Lain and Elfen Lied.

Woah woah woah back up. Yes, Elfen Lied is horrible but Serial Experiments Lain? I understand that it's not everyone's cup of tea and that the pacing is slow and I wouldn't call it a 'masterpiece' (there's nothing I'd call a masterpiece) but Serial Experiments Lain is intelligently written with powerful execution.

What is powerful? I honestly saw nothing in this that wasn't executed better in even the Matrix or Tron and in Lain I honestly could not tell you what the plot was until about episode 10 and there was only one character in that series (arisu) who had any defining character trait at all. So what exactly makes it powerful?

Even comparing Lain to the Matrix or Tron shows you know little about what the series was trying to portray. It is powerful because it is unique. Lain uses a unique style of writing at the time with little exposition and little narration. It offers a unique look at storytelling which, albeit, isn't to everyone's taste but it is undeniably powerful.

 

[Nalfen]

Even comparing Lain to the Matrix or Tron shows you know little about what the series was trying to portray. It is powerful because it is unique. Lain uses a unique style of writing at the time with little exposition and little narration. It offers a unique look at storytelling which, albeit, isn't to everyone's taste but it is undeniably powerful.

I don't think those words mean what you think they mean...WHAT was powerful, what about it makes it worth watching? I watched it from beginning to end and I found it to be at best entirely forgettable because the way the story was told, different as it may be, just does not work for a tv show.

 

[ZiggyE]

WHAT was powerful, what about it makes it worth watching? I watched it from beginning to end and I found it to be at best entirely forgettable because the way the story was told, different as it may be, just does not work for a tv show.

As I said, it doesn't work for everyone. If you can't get into the feel of the show then it won't be powerful for you. However, just because you failed to enjoy it doesn't make the show bad.

What makes the show powerful for me is the evolution and growth of Lain's character, the exploration of the world through the lack of any true narration (as Lain is an unreliable narrator). We see this foreign world which as just as foreign to Lain as it is to us. It also provides an interesting look into the future of technology's perceived growth when thins like the 'internet' and home computers were starting to take off.

 

[Not Good]

90% of anything is shit. That's why there's a clearance section.

The only thing that isn't 90% shit that I can think about off the top of my head is Jeff Bridges.

 

[Nalfen]

As I said, it doesn't work for everyone. If you can't get into the feel of the show then it won't be powerful for you. However, just because you failed to enjoy it doesn't make the show bad.

What makes the show powerful for me is the evolution and growth of Lain's character, the exploration of the world through the lack of any true narration (as Lain is an unreliable narrator). We see this foreign world which as just as foreign to Lain as it is to us. It also provides an interesting look into the future of technology's perceived growth when thins like the 'internet' and home computers were starting to take off.

Taking guesses at the future of technology is what sci-fi is all about and of course some of these guesses will be wrong. On cannot truly begrudge anime for being wrong, but you can begrudge it for not even trying to get it right. Good science-fiction is based on existing ideas that have been at least briefly researched and more specifically their effect on human being, or it is used to explore hypothetical situations that cannot exist in the modern day. Bad science fiction uses the advanced technology as a crutch to monologue about some current social situation without any real substance or exploration. Serial Experiments Lain is to cyberpunk as recent Romero flicks have been to zombie movies. Lain was commenting rather poorly one current Japanese society without any deep exploration of, or even a basic understanding of, the technology it was using.

In short is George A Romero deep for saying that the youtube generation is heartless with a terrible zombie movie. If so then sure Lain is deep too.

And as for Lain as a character, there was nothing to her, like no characteristic at all which told me who she was, like it wasn't even anything like anti-social or confused or alone, it was just nothing, like the writers couldn't figure out how to write a character and just stuck some mannequin in the series.

Also as for it not being for everyone, I understand that there are things that aren't "for everyone" like there are things that I don't like but accept as good because I see that it is at least well done/written or whatever based on the subject, but I simply cannot see anything positive or done well in this anime.

 

[Nalfen]

90% of anything is shit. That's why there's a clearance section.

The only thing that isn't 90% shit that I can think about off the top of my head is Jeff Bridges.

You sir deserve a cookie.

 

[[Kira Must Die]]

Well, if it has lots of fans than that must mean they aren't completely horrible.
Those shows are popular for a reason, because they appeal to a vast number of people. Just because they don't quite fit your taste doesn't mean it's automatically bad, or that the fans are automatically stupid, it's just means your not its target audience. In order to see why it's so popular you have to ask yourself what do people like about this (Whether it be one or many factors) and what exactly is it's target audience.
Now, the truly bad animes aren't popular, and for a reason. They just plain suck, and anyone with half a brain can see that.

 

[Nalfen]

]Well, if it has lots of fans than that must mean they aren't completely horrible.
Those shows are popular for a reason, because they appeal to a vast number of people. Just because they don't quite fit your taste doesn't mean it's automatically bad, or that the fans are automatically stupid, it's just means your not its target audience. In order to see why it's so popular you have to ask yourself what do people like about this (Whether it be one or many factors) and what exactly is it's target audience.
Now, the truly bad animes aren't popular, and for a reason. They just plain suck, and anyone with half a brain can see that.

Transformers 2, made $836 million.

 

[LobsterFeng]

I think it's the fact that anime has it's own weird little cliches. Like even good animes like Full Metal Alchemist fall victim to them. I think people tend to like anime with a ton of characters and really long storylines because then they can choose favorites and write fan fiction and stuff. Examples: Bleach, Naruto, One Piece, etc.

 

[ragsmorrison]

Sirs, I would bring to your attention a little anime called Baccano! It's supposed to be a semi-farcical crime noir set in and around 1920s New York, with a plot about warring mob families and the elixir of immortality. But the story is so poorly structured with unnecessary & random time jumps, and the characters are such one-dimensional caricatures that the whole thing is a barely watchable mess. Yet my pals gush over it as a work of avant-garde genius, so maybe I'm missing something.

 

[NeutralDrow]

TLR: Why are so many horrible anime extremely popular.

Dude, you know that Green Lantern movie that just came out recently? That the internet is frothing with rage over? I loved it.

Different folks, different standards, different tastes. I'm honestly curious which anime you've been watching recently, but if it makes you uncomfortable, I don't have to know. Though of the ones you've mentioned...haven't seen any of them; I read and enjoy the Hetalia manga, but I can't speak for the quality of its anime adaptation.

Some of the popular shows out there just boggle my mind. Lucky Star, in particular, seems completely irredeemable.

Takes a certain mindset, I suppose. It's slow-paced, character-driven, talky slice-of-life, with some realistic absurdism thrown in and a higher-than-normal geek following due to Konata. All stuff I happen to love, but I can understand how it's polarizing.

 

[[Kira Must Die]]

]Well, if it has lots of fans than that must mean they aren't completely horrible.
Those shows are popular for a reason, because they appeal to a vast number of people. Just because they don't quite fit your taste doesn't mean it's automatically bad, or that the fans are automatically stupid, it's just means your not its target audience. In order to see why it's so popular you have to ask yourself what do people like about this (Whether it be one or many factors) and what exactly is it's target audience.
Now, the truly bad animes aren't popular, and for a reason. They just plain suck, and anyone with half a brain can see that.

Transformers 2, made $836 million.

Yes, but that doesn't really bother me at all.
Plus I always figure that just because people paid to watch it doesn't mean they ended up enjoying it.
Kinda like how a youtube video has more than a million views but tons of dislikes, yet the media still consider it to be a hit because people looked at it.
Transformers is kinda like that, except you're losing money.
But who knows, maybe those people did enjoy it, either way it doesn't matter to me.