Bad game, good sequel?

[shadowsandwich]

the original street fighter wasnt very good but it's sequal got its own series!

 

[esperandote]

I never played Silent Hill series but from what I get it wasn't received very well where Silent Hill 2 is known till now.

We can speculate that at the same point we can say that Skyrim Will be Better than Oblivion.

Silent Hill 2 > Silent Hill 1
Silent Hill Homecoming > Silent Hill 0rigins

Wow wow wow, Silent Hill is an awesome game, as good or almost as good as SH2 (and for some even beter) to most silent hill fans i know. Take it from someone that who's internet name comes from a song from the first silent hill soundtrack.

Also, Silent Hill Homecoming is my least favorite of the series.

 

[Sectan]

Ok, I know I'm asking for trouble here but every new CoD game that comes out is better than the last one thus it is a better sequal/game than the last game.

...and cue the rabid responses from the people who think I'm an idiot and that CoD is no longer a relavent game and is gay or some variation of that.

I don't think it's so much the games, but the fact that they're like the previous title, just with content that would amount to patches and DLC packaged as a new game. I had fun with CoD 2, MW, MW2 and Black Ops, but I understand where people are coming from when they say it's just getting tiring.


As for Bad Game Good Sequel I can't really think of anything that hasn't already been said.

 

[Knife]

I do take your point, but to me, those things are refinements on what they have already. Selecting 9 units instead of 4, more spells for your mages, one more type of resource and so on are definite improvements, but nothing that exciting, IMHO. The addition of water units changed the way levels could be constructed (air units, not so much), and it was great not having to muck about with roads, but otherwise it felt much the same.

Although, yeah, finding reasons for them all to fight each other all the time got a bit dubiouys, IMHO, it mostly worked. Also, having 4 campaigns one after the other from different PoV, rather than picking one and fighting the same almost identical enemy again and again on different base building levels was a big improvement, IMHO. Sticking actual characters, even if they got OtT and silly or confusing at times helped the story alot, IMHO.

I also liked what they did to the various landscapes, they put a bit of effort into giving them character, rather than the previous palette swap, though alot of that was level design.

(I thought the Night Elf motivations made sense personally "Hey kids, get off my lawn...WTF is that, come back and stand between it and me". Also, the ending cutscene wasn't great, not, but I did like the ending level, though not so much when I lose by 45 seconds.)

I could argue that the changes blizzard made from warcraft 1 to warcraft 2 were just as significant as the changes they made from warcraft 2 to warcraft 3, its just that as time goes by we forget what we didn't use to have and lose appreciation for all the stuff we now take as granted. And the further in time it is the less valuable it seems, but without those "small" steps we'd never get were we are today.
As to having 4 consequent campaigns, while some may consider it an improvement and it surely can offer a very interesting perspective, it is also quite problematic - "I'm sorry did you want to play as night elves? Well here ya go, beat those 3 campaigns first with races you want nothing to do with", "Hello there, remember the last 10 missions you spent trying to gather power and establishing yourself while dealing a deadly blow to your enemies? Now destroy all that, while you are now lethaly crippled", "I'm sorry did you actually like 1 race and wanted it to prevail over all others? Nah, not gonna happen.".
And yes the level design was pretty sweet.
Night elves motivation made sense? Some people who are persecuted, have nowhere to go and are just trying to make a new home for themselves by cutting a few trees that the Night elves can regrow in hundreds. Instead of asking them politely to leave or you know maybe grow some wood and sell it to them, what do they do? Kill them, because violence is the only answer to dealing with anybody who isn't a night elf. Undead are just omnicidal bastards, but night elves are just the most horrible racists ever (they hate high/blood elves, they hate nagas, they hate humans, they hate orcs, they hate daemons, they hate undead, they even hate themselves occasionally). And the arrogance, like they own Kalimdor and everybody else can GTFO. Lets just say I hated high elves untill night elves were introduced, then I gained a new appreciation for how shy and modest they really were.
Honestly Grom killing Mannoroth was the climax of the game, the rest was a dissapointment. A being that can destroy an entire city full of wizards with a move of its hand, being killed off by willow wisps... blizzard are you trying to insult my intelligence?

 

[No_Remainders]

Half Life 2 was a bajillion times more fun than the original

We can never be friends. Not now, not ever.

OT: Hmm... I'm gonna go with Just Cause 2 > Just Cause, and Assassin's Creed 2 > Assassin's Creed.

 

[___________________]

I have always liked Fallout 2 better than the first one. Can't think of any others right now.

 

[Fleetfiend]

Kind of obvious but Spiderman 2, one of the only good film based games. Anyone remember Spiderman 1? Web slinging on clouds was fun -.-

Definitely agree with you there. I loved Spiderman 2.

 

[Richardplex]

Assassin's Creed 1 was painful. Good ideas, badly implemented. Assassin's Creed 2 was a masterpiece. But then I really disliked AC:B, and seem to be the only one (at least of those who liked/loved number 2).
Ratchet and Clank was average with really annoying minigames, and number 2 was amazing.
Spider-man 2, the Mother series (2+3 compared to 1, not comparing 2 and 3). All I can think of at the moment, I haven't really played bad games.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I could argue that the changes blizzard made from warcraft 1 to warcraft 2 were just as significant as the changes they made from warcraft 2 to warcraft 3, its just that as time goes by we forget what we didn't use to have and lose appreciation for all the stuff we now take as granted. And the further in time it is the less valuable it seems, but without those "small" steps we'd never get were we are today.

That's true, of course, I meant that Warcraft2 was merely travelling further down the road that Warcraft did, whereas Warcraft 3 opened up a new direction. If you happen to like the new direction more (or even less), then it could be a bigger difference to you.

As to having 4 consequent campaigns, while some may consider it an improvement and it surely can offer a very interesting perspective, it is also quite problematic - "I'm sorry did you want to play as night elves? Well here ya go, beat those 3 campaigns first with races you want nothing to do with", "Hello there, remember the last 10 missions you spent trying to gather power and establishing yourself while dealing a deadly blow to your enemies? Now destroy all that, while you are now lethaly crippled", "I'm sorry did you actually like 1 race and wanted it to prevail over all others? Nah, not gonna happen.".

Again, yes, that is very annoying, but it makes more sense from a story point of view. Also, it's what cheat codes are for

Night elves motivation made sense? Some people who are persecuted, have nowhere to go and are just trying to make a new home for themselves by cutting a few trees that the Night elves can regrow in hundreds. Instead of asking them politely to leave or you know maybe grow some wood and sell it to them, what do they do? Kill them, because violence is the only answer to dealing with anybody who isn't a night elf. Undead are just omnicidal bastards, but night elves are just the most horrible racists ever (they hate high/blood elves, they hate nagas, they hate humans, they hate orcs, they hate daemons, they hate undead, they even hate themselves occasionally). And the arrogance, like they own Kalimdor and everybody else can GTFO. Lets just say I hated high elves untill night elves were introduced, then I gained a new appreciation for how shy and modest they really were.

So, you're saying a bunch of refugees fleeing to someone else's country are met by hostility and violence by the locals who'd rather they went off and died somewhere else? I can just maybe see that happening. Though, they all learnt to work together in the end, ish. Not played beyond Frozen Throne, though.

Honestly Grom killing Mannoroth was the climax of the game, the rest was a dissapointment. A being that can destroy an entire city full of wizards with a move of its hand, being killed off by willow wisps... blizzard are you trying to insult my intelligence?

Yeah, that was more than necessarily fucked up. Stupid hippy rubbish.

 

[Fanfic_warper]

Damn this is difficult....not many of the things I've seen sequels for can I say the base was bad....Then again, I'm of the general opinion that most sequels build on and improve the base......

 

[Knife]

That's true, of course, I meant that Warcraft2 was merely travelling further down the road that Warcraft did, whereas Warcraft 3 opened up a new direction. If you happen to like the new direction more (or even less), then it could be a bigger difference to you.

Its a much more subtle difference than most would think - one's direction is another's road.

So, you're saying a bunch of refugees fleeing to someone else's country are met by hostility and violence by the locals who'd rather they went off and died somewhere else? I can just maybe see that happening. Though, they all learnt to work together in the end, ish. Not played beyond Frozen Throne, though.

I could see it happening (WW2 for instance), but that's not the reasoning of higher, more civilized beings, they claim to be. That's the reasoning of a redneck.
And surely you must mean The Reign of Chaos, The Frozen Throne was the expansion and there really wasn't anything beyond that (except WoW obviously).
In The Frozen Throne, humans abandon high elves to their doom and then hunt them down for "deserting" or whatever. High elves become blood elves and join forces with Illidan in order to survive. Some plain retarded night elves hunt down Illidan, despite him contributing heavily to saving the world and kind of trying to save it again. The night elves also hunt down the nagas who allied themselves with Illidan, who are by chance an offshoot of the night elves who went amphibic after a cataclysm that divided a big continent into Kalimdor/Azeroth/Northrend. So basically night elves hate the naga because they abandoned the naga to their doom long ago and lived in denial of it for thousands of years and don't like to be reminded about how they are gigantic assholes. Illidan whines a lot, tries to appear badass but fails miserably and Arthas kicks his miserable ass and unites with the lich king.
So yeah it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, you'd think they learn from their past mistakes and become better people and what not, but they just keep being small minded, conflict seeking idiots.

 

[Akytalusia]

Half Life 2 was a bajillion times more fun than the original
Team Fortress 2 was a quadranazillion times more fun than Team Fortress Classic
Left 4 Dead 2 was... well, a lot better than Left 4 Dead

Valve is pretty damn good at making sequels (except for maybe Portal 2, which is almost a different game than the original, which is why I can't compare them, even though I REALLY loved both of them). I hope this will be the same for DoTa 2 and maybe CS: Global Offensive.

it took 39 posts for someone to mention half life 2? escapist, i am disappoint.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I could see it happening (WW2 for instance), but that's not the reasoning of higher, more civilized beings, they claim to be. That's the reasoning of a redneck.

Everyone claims to be a higher, more civilised being, though. The higher and more civilised than everyone else they claim to be, the more you have to worry.

And surely you must mean The Reign of Chaos, The Frozen Throne was the expansion and there really wasn't anything beyond that (except WoW obviously).

I meant WoW, yeah.

In The Frozen Throne, humans abandon high elves to their doom and then hunt them down for "deserting" or whatever.

The one human commander everyone hated did, you mean. Not sure that's that same thing. Possibly he was already under the control of the dreadlords then anyway, IIRC.

Some plain retarded night elves hunt down Illidan, despite him contributing heavily to saving the world and kind of trying to save it again. The night elves also hunt down the nagas who allied themselves with Illidan, who are by chance an offshoot of the night elves who went amphibic after a cataclysm that divided a big continent into Kalimdor/Azeroth/Northrend. So basically night elves hate the naga because they abandoned the naga to their doom long ago and lived in denial of it for thousands of years and don't like to be reminded about how they are gigantic assholes. Illidan whines a lot, tries to appear badass but fails miserably and Arthas kicks his miserable ass and unites with the lich king.

Not sure that's fair. The ones hunting Illidan were his gaolers, who'd died trying to keep him locked up, and the reason they hated the naga might have been cause the first time they saw them, they were wiping out various night elf villages. They also didn't know why Illidan was tampering with the balance of the world, or whatever, just that he was up to something really dangerous.

So yeah it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, you'd think they learn from their past mistakes and become better people and what not, but they just keep being small minded, conflict seeking idiots.

Well, that's what happens IRL. Mind you, Tyrande starts off much more racist, Furion wasn't, but she became more tolerant. They also accepted Illidan in the end. Maiev never did, but Furion and Tyrande recognised that she was dangerously obsessed.

 

[Kurtiss Penman]

Along the line of movies I will say the The Rescuers down under was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better X100,000,000 than the Rescuers.

 

[LordXel]

Assassin's Creed. I don't care what anyone says, once you got past the novelty of the setting, the joy of freerunning and after completeing the same mini objectives 500 times... the game was a total bore.

I once thought Assassin's Creed was okay but I went back to play it after being spoiled by 2 and Brotherhood. The first AC is really really boring.
It gets old quickly, the combat is dull and the story is interesting but poorly done with the story mostly being told from a lifeless non cinematic view.

It had its moments such as the tall church in Acre but other than that its rather mediorce overall.

Assassin's Creed 2 and Brotherhood were absolute masterpieces.

The second one blew my mind. Characters and story are more interesting and better executed, a lot of variety in gameplay, a better soundtrack, better location and in my opinion one of the best WTF?! endings ever.

Brotherhood is damn good as well with a lot of challenges and new concepts to make it seem less like a glorified expansion pack. It has its problems but it was what I wanted, more of the same thing. Really good multiplayer as well.

 

[Knife]

Overall, it's not as good as Reign of Chaos, but it's way better than WoW, warcraft 1, it's even better than Warcraft 2. You shoudl pick it up.

Your essay you tried to pass as a reply is both awesome and hilarious, good sir. Though completely misguided and untrue.
Grom vs Mannoroth beats Arthas vs Illidan (though the trash talk almost wins it first place).
And night elves are douchebags who only pretend to be hippies so that people of the Alliance wouldn't kill them, every druid knows that.
Also Illidan is a 10,000 year old teenager whining about his life at every opportunity "OOOOh, I've been imprisoned for ten thousand years!", "OOOOh, I'm blind!","OOOOh, nobody likes me","OOOOh, I hate my brother, he got the hot chick I always wanted","OOOOh, not in the face, not in the face!".
And if you haven't figured it out, I played every warcraft game out there, including the Frozen Throne and WoW. And warcraft 2 was better than warcraft 3 because hero-centric RTS come and go, but nostalgia lasts forever.

 

[Weslebear]

team fortress 1, maybe, i dont know, but i do know this, megaman battle network 4 was shit, but battle network 5 was the best in the battle network series, followed closly by 3

I agree with you on Team Fortress, I was gifted the original by a friend and it is just horrid but goddamn I love the new one.

 

[Mallefunction]

I am gonna get a lot of hate for this but Portal < Portal 2

The first Portal had a great idea, but honestly, nothing motivated me to continue it. There wasn't enough outside of the whole "LOOK YOU GO IN ONE HOLE AND COME OUT THE OTHER" to really grab me. I got a sequel as a b-day gift and was blown away by how it connected back to the first and how much more immersive it was. I was excited and happy when I finished the sequel as opposed to when I finished the first (which took me well over a year because I'd play for like 30 minutes, get bored and put it down again for several months)

 

[Kirbys]

Final Fantasy was o.k., 7th was *****ing amazing.

 

[Abedeus]

Assassin's Creed. I don't care what anyone says, once you got past the novelty of the setting, the joy of freerunning and after completeing the same mini objectives 500 times... the game was a total bore.

Assassin's Creed 2 and Brotherhood were absolute masterpieces.

Also Resident Evil, how anyone could possibly consider that game a classic I'll never know! RE2 and RE3 were far better.

/controversy

Assassin's Creed is basically the poster child for this. I outright tell everyone I've ever talked to about the series that AC was a terrible game with a lot of good ideas that never came together into anything worth playing. AC2 utterly blew me away though with how much of an improvement it was. That was the game AC should have been.

Don't forget that it looked and works better on PCs than AC. AC looked good, but was probably the first game in a long time that I couldn't run at full.

Few years later, AC2 came out with superior, awesome and incredibly incredible graphics, but not much higher requirements.

Also - Persona 3 < Persona 4. Okay, Persona 3 wasn't bad. It was fucking AWESOME.

Then you played Persona 4, and realize how badly some things were done in P3.

To get all sidequest relationships in P3, you had to play the game once, then replay it with a hand-made calendar with every day planned and so on to make sure you have enough time for it. In P4, I finished all relationships in one play-through without problems.

And combat, God, so much better and more enjoyable in P4. Maybe being able to control your teammates made the game easier, but before it was just Difficult by Poor Design.

"Mitsuru, please, use Mabufudyne on those enemies that are Weak to Ice so we get extra damage on them and turns!"

Mitsuru used Marin Karin! It didn't work on anyone.

"Yukari please heal please heal"

Yukari used Magarudyne! *reflect reflect* GUHHH *gasp* Yukari-chan is down!