Bagless Vacuum Inventor Wants More Engineers, Less Game Devs

[LavaLampBamboo]

.....The UK government recently announced plans for a 25 percent tax break for "video games, animation and high-end television industries" that pass a "cultural test" proving their Britishness.....

What the.... Wha.... Why...

What is the point of that? Im sorry, but i just couldnt concentrate on anything else after seeing this. Is that common?

Holy shit is this stupid!

Frankly i see two things that could have happened here - either someone lobbied hard to get some cash back, or this is some kind of thinly veiled racism.

Id assume both...


As to why people flock to gaming industry, i have no idea. Probably they think game development = playing games a lot. And it is kinda true. Go ahead, and play one game for the next 2 years, then tell me how much fun it is

Im doing ICT at the moment, and this is because the government of our country said "WE NEED MORE PEOPLE RIGHT HERE!" and a couple of other "engineer" related studies. And i most probably wont have trouble finding job after this.

They even considered making "technical studies" free of charge iirc.

The test sounds mental, but in reality you score a bunch of points for having a British character in your game, or having most of the development happening in the UK, and it's not too difficult to pass. It sounds mental, I agree, but it's not as racist as you think =)

 

[LavaLampBamboo]

As others have said, the real problem is a chronic lack of engineering jobs. I have a friend who studied Civil Engineering. The oldest form of engineering after military engineering, according to Wikipedia. You think with a degree like that, he'd be well placed to start working on anything, constructing roads, buildings, dams, satellites... but sadly, he's still looking for work.

The government needs to stop playing silly buggers with the economy, stop slashing everything they can find, and actually start investing in schemes that provide work for the thousands of engineering graduates we've already got...

The UK government recently announced plans for a 25 percent tax break for "video games, animation and high-end television industries" that pass a "cultural test" proving their Britishness. Expect a lot of games about sarcasm, mild xenophobia and binge drinking, in other words.

... oh, fuck you Cameron. You and your outdated notions of what constitutes being British.

Seriously, what the fuck is 'Britishness'? Because Britain is the one nation in Europe which could be defined by the different nationalities that have occupied it at some point or other in history. We've been invaded by Italians, Angles, Saxons, Normans, and Vikings, and whatever 'indigenous' culture we may have once had was wiped out thousands of years ago by invaders from other cultures. British culture is multicultural. Even our monarchy is multicultural: the Queen is part German, and her husband is Greek.

Stop trying to appeal to the BNP bigots, and learn to accept that there is no such thing as 'indigenous' British culture. We're essentially the bastard child of every major nation in Europe. They've all fathered us to one extent or another.

If you look into it, the "test for Britishness" is actually things like "game has a bit set in the UK" or "game features a Brit". It's not how many Union Flags appear in the game or something. If anything, this PROMOTES the idea of a multicultural Britain, since it encourages developers to move to the UK.

I'll agree the whole "Britishness" phrasing is pretty dumb and it might seem like the government is being all insular, but it's more of a representation of culture in art.

 

[Ruley]

This.

No really, this.

He makes such a good point i'm surprised so many fail to see this as an issue. Universities and colleges should stop video game development specific degrees. Some people hypothesize this will net us better games in the future by teaching the next generation of games designers the tools of the trade before they get their hands dirty in the job market. But current job market conditions really screw over specific degrees like this one. A lot of people seem to forget that current video game designers didn't do a degree like the ones being offered today. They studied Physics, Computer science and Engineering. Do people realize what word can appear often in gaming? a "Physics Engine" Does that imply some understanding of physics i wonder?

I really hope that a lot of these courses fail and people go back to doing core scientific subjects who then, after obtaining the general degree, specialize in videogaming. If they fail and do not get a job (which is the current state of the videogame job market), they can go on to do other jobs in those fields and not be shackled down by a degree that looks too specific on a CV to be applied elsewhere. Be honest, if you were looking over job applications for a bank or somewhere else where videogame design skills might be applied, who would you choose for an interview? "Physics" or "Videogame Design"? I'm not saying the coding skills learned in these courses are useless elsewhere, its just you'd fail to convey that as succinctly as other degree titles.

Keep in mind, Halo, Call of Duty and other blockbusters of our generation came from people who studied these core subjects. Thus a videogame design degree is not needed to make such a game!

TL;DR

Want to make video games? Go back to learning physics and not "Video game design". It will serve you better in the future when 343i reject you from the team for Halo 6

 

[SoopaSte123]

As a recently graduated engineering student, he's got a point. A lot of engineering students would prefer to work in games rather than in other fields. If you look at it at the macro level like he is, the country and community might be better off if they went into development of products other than games. On the micro level, however, the students are going into games because that's what they're passionate about, and that's a good thing. Finding a job in a field you're passionate about should be every student's dream.

I think we just need more students majoring in engineering period. Then we can have more game devs AND more non-gaming engineers.

 

[Neonit]

...most of the development happening in the UK...

That i can understand, with the "create new jobs" etc. that actually does make sense.

But i dunno, it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.... And it still stinks of "cultural superiority complex" to me.

But meh, maybe its just me.

 

[Arakasi]

Well I for one think that we should have less Homer Simpsons and more money for public schools!

Anyhow, as demand for engineers increase, so will their paygrade, drawing more people back into that career path. These things have a way of equalising themselves.

 

[BehattedWanderer]

Well, I'm both, but not in the UK. Wouldn't mind a financial stimulus for here in the US, either. It's quite hard to find a decent engineering position for about half the grads that come out of the school. But, it's not like I can say anything against the man. If one of the most profitable engineers of our day wants more engineers, well, we should get on that. I'm not saying we should abandon gaming and media wholesale, however. Can't we find some middle ground, like robbing some from the other liberal arts degrees?

 

[Myndnix]

I sort of see where he's coming from, but not in regards to his business- in regards to the actual game developers themselves, or I should say, would-be game developers. I'm starting to think we're suffering from an oversaturation of game design students, as I've at least six friends who went to university to study all of this stuff, and are now all unemployed, because nobody needs or wants game developers right now.

 

[sleeky01]

Uh, those two careers require radically different skillsets. I'm 3 years into a comp sci course, and I've yet to do any maths! Seriously, there's almost no overlap.

That's surprising to me. A comp sci course where math is not required....hmmmm.

That makes as much sense to me as having a business degree, but only having a cursory knowledge of what the company you work for produces.

Ohhh Hang on....

I think I might have stumbled on a core issue here.

 

[Jedi-Hunter4]

The core reason for Engineer numbers dropping is lack of jobs, the government doing away for loans for masters courses amd increasing tuition fees (most decent BEng are now the max which is like 9K a year) but cutting funding and tax cuts to university's.

Then there's the issue that even for well qualified engineering students there are jobs, but very few in desirable fields.

 

[Proverbial Jon]

I think the real problem here is that Dyson vacuum cleaners aren't even that good. Wake up to the truth people!

I vote Vax every time.

 

[The Lugz]

old janitor flames government

if he wants to impress me, the title should be:

old janitor creates 60,000 jobs

the fact that we've spent as long playing games and watching tv as there has been time is quite true
man hours rack up really quick, do the math on one or two online games and your head will explode!

but people need leisure time and thus leisure must be created, without it we'd either go insane or
become mindless drones, endlessly gluing parts to vacuum cleaners on a never ending assembly line
and it's none of Dyson's business where, when or on what people spend their leisure time

if gaming hasn't become an obsession in your life that you shrug all other duty's to do it then
frankly power to you

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

The UK government recently announced plans for a 25 percent tax break for "video games, animation and high-end television industries" that pass a "cultural test" proving their Britishness.

OK, I know this is going off-topic, but for fuck's sake this pisses me off...

"Britishness" is not a thing! Our culture is not an easily definable entity that can be measured by a test; and even if it could, I can't be the only one who thinks that art that can 'prove' it's 'Britishness' (aka. Art that is patriotic and supports the notion of whatever the hell our government seems to think "Britishness" is) being given preferential treatment is pretty fucking creepy. This isn't all that far away from what Iran is doing with it's game industry, because who needs honest artistic expression when you can have propaganda right? This shit would not fly in the British film industry that's for sure.

Britain is historically one of the most multi-cultural places on Earth. If there's anything about British culture that we should be celebrating, it's how malleable we are. The sort of skin-head, flag-touting bigots who like to make such a big deal about what it means to be truly 'British', don't seem to realise that to be 'British' is to be, ethnically speaking, equal parts Italian, German, Danish and French, at least! Asking anyone or anything to 'prove Britishness' is nothing more than empty, xenophobic, nationalistic wank-speak to appease clueless Daily Mail readers!

Right, I'm done. I'll get off my soapbox now.

Britishness is definitely a "thing", since all a nation has to do to qualify for its "-ness" is have its own unique history, which Britain does have. In the future maybe all there will be is one "global culture" but I don't think we're near that stage yet. For a game to be uniquely British can't be hard - throw in some beefeaters, pork pies and a level set in Stonehenge and you're set.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

The UK government recently announced plans for a 25 percent tax break for "video games, animation and high-end television industries" that pass a "cultural test" proving their Britishness.

OK, I know this is going off-topic, but for fuck's sake this pisses me off...

"Britishness" is not a thing! Our culture is not an easily definable entity that can be measured by a test; and even if it could, I can't be the only one who thinks that art that can 'prove' it's 'Britishness' (aka. Art that is patriotic and supports the notion of whatever the hell our government seems to think "Britishness" is) being given preferential treatment is pretty fucking creepy. This isn't all that far away from what Iran is doing with it's game industry, because who needs honest artistic expression when you can have propaganda right? This shit would not fly in the British film industry that's for sure.

Britain is historically one of the most multi-cultural places on Earth. If there's anything about British culture that we should be celebrating, it's how malleable we are. The sort of skin-head, flag-touting bigots who like to make such a big deal about what it means to be truly 'British', don't seem to realise that to be 'British' is to be, ethnically speaking, equal parts Italian, German, Danish and French, at least! Asking anyone or anything to 'prove Britishness' is nothing more than empty, xenophobic, nationalistic wank-speak to appease clueless Daily Mail readers!

Right, I'm done. I'll get off my soapbox now.

Britishness is definitely a "thing", since all a nation has to do to qualify for its "-ness" is have its own unique history, which Britain does have. In the future maybe all there will be is one "global culture" but I don't think we're near that stage yet. For a game to be uniquely British can't be hard - throw in some beefeaters, pork pies and a level set in Stonehenge and you're set.

Except that Britain is no more 'about' Beefeaters, Pork Pies and Stonehenge than America is 'about' Ten Gallon Hats and six-shooters, or Italy is 'about' fast cars and the Mafia. No culture in the world can be defined by such superficial elements.

This is like a few years ago when it was revealed that the test about British culture and history that asylum-seekers were having forced on them before they were deemed 'British' enough to enter the country, actually couldn't be passed by most people who were born and bred in Britain. It was a stupid idea back then and it's a stupid idea now.

 

[Samantha Burt]

He makes a point, of sorts, but I can't help but feel like this is sour grapes from the guy that sells vacuums for $3,000 a pop

Might be more concerned with his own business than the future of technology

and those bladeless fans, you could fill a whole room with ordinary fans for the price of one of those things. I think the engineers in Britain's future should work towards taking what he makes and making it far more affordable. Also because it's obligatory in a topic like this Dyson as a company sucks, their overpriced stuff blows.

If only we could, but he patents damn near every component.

OT: This smacks a bit of all those people out there who go "All those NASA scientists are wasting their time, they should go cure cancer or something".

 

[Kinitawowi]

Britishness is definitely a "thing", since all a nation has to do to qualify for its "-ness" is have its own unique history, which Britain does have. In the future maybe all there will be is one "global culture" but I don't think we're near that stage yet. For a game to be uniquely British can't be hard - throw in some beefeaters, pork pies and a level set in Stonehenge and you're set.

Seriously. If SquareEnix ever made a Final Fantasy game inspired by British history rather than Japanese I would be all over that shit.

This idea isn't something David Cameron has just invented; Tony Blair and even Gordon Brown had ideas for a Britishness test for potential immigrants.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

The UK government recently announced plans for a 25 percent tax break for "video games, animation and high-end television industries" that pass a "cultural test" proving their Britishness.

OK, I know this is going off-topic, but for fuck's sake this pisses me off...

"Britishness" is not a thing! Our culture is not an easily definable entity that can be measured by a test; and even if it could, I can't be the only one who thinks that art that can 'prove' it's 'Britishness' (aka. Art that is patriotic and supports the notion of whatever the hell our government seems to think "Britishness" is) being given preferential treatment is pretty fucking creepy. This isn't all that far away from what Iran is doing with it's game industry, because who needs honest artistic expression when you can have propaganda right? This shit would not fly in the British film industry that's for sure.

Britain is historically one of the most multi-cultural places on Earth. If there's anything about British culture that we should be celebrating, it's how malleable we are. The sort of skin-head, flag-touting bigots who like to make such a big deal about what it means to be truly 'British', don't seem to realise that to be 'British' is to be, ethnically speaking, equal parts Italian, German, Danish and French, at least! Asking anyone or anything to 'prove Britishness' is nothing more than empty, xenophobic, nationalistic wank-speak to appease clueless Daily Mail readers!

Right, I'm done. I'll get off my soapbox now.

Britishness is definitely a "thing", since all a nation has to do to qualify for its "-ness" is have its own unique history, which Britain does have. In the future maybe all there will be is one "global culture" but I don't think we're near that stage yet. For a game to be uniquely British can't be hard - throw in some beefeaters, pork pies and a level set in Stonehenge and you're set.

Except that Britain is no more 'about' Beefeaters, Pork Pies and Stonehenge than America is 'about' Ten Gallon Hats and six-shooters, or Italy is 'about' fast cars and the Mafia. No culture in the world can be defined by such superficial elements.

This is like a few years ago when it was revealed that the test about British culture and history that asylum-seekers were having forced on them before they were deemed 'British' enough to enter the country, actually couldn't be passed by most people who were born and bred in Britain. It was a stupid idea back then and it's a stupid idea now.

If you regard those things as superficial, you must have an idea of things that aren't superficial. What would those be?

 

[Vausch]

Well, as an engineering student I understand his complaint and sympathise because I to believe we need more, better engineers and they need to be treated better in the workplace.

Though as a gamer I'm thinking there's no connection between the two field and you really shouldn't bash those that wish to have a creative yet technical career making something they like.

Conflicted.