Bagless Vacuum Inventor Wants More Engineers, Less Game Devs

[Erttheking]

My vacuum cleaner is nearly a decade old and works just fine. I think we're good for vacuum cleaners. Games on the other hand, have a lot of kinks to work out.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

The UK government recently announced plans for a 25 percent tax break for "video games, animation and high-end television industries" that pass a "cultural test" proving their Britishness.

OK, I know this is going off-topic, but for fuck's sake this pisses me off...

"Britishness" is not a thing! Our culture is not an easily definable entity that can be measured by a test; and even if it could, I can't be the only one who thinks that art that can 'prove' it's 'Britishness' (aka. Art that is patriotic and supports the notion of whatever the hell our government seems to think "Britishness" is) being given preferential treatment is pretty fucking creepy. This isn't all that far away from what Iran is doing with it's game industry, because who needs honest artistic expression when you can have propaganda right? This shit would not fly in the British film industry that's for sure.

Britain is historically one of the most multi-cultural places on Earth. If there's anything about British culture that we should be celebrating, it's how malleable we are. The sort of skin-head, flag-touting bigots who like to make such a big deal about what it means to be truly 'British', don't seem to realise that to be 'British' is to be, ethnically speaking, equal parts Italian, German, Danish and French, at least! Asking anyone or anything to 'prove Britishness' is nothing more than empty, xenophobic, nationalistic wank-speak to appease clueless Daily Mail readers!

Right, I'm done. I'll get off my soapbox now.

Britishness is definitely a "thing", since all a nation has to do to qualify for its "-ness" is have its own unique history, which Britain does have. In the future maybe all there will be is one "global culture" but I don't think we're near that stage yet. For a game to be uniquely British can't be hard - throw in some beefeaters, pork pies and a level set in Stonehenge and you're set.

Except that Britain is no more 'about' Beefeaters, Pork Pies and Stonehenge than America is 'about' Ten Gallon Hats and six-shooters, or Italy is 'about' fast cars and the Mafia. No culture in the world can be defined by such superficial elements.

This is like a few years ago when it was revealed that the test about British culture and history that asylum-seekers were having forced on them before they were deemed 'British' enough to enter the country, actually couldn't be passed by most people who were born and bred in Britain. It was a stupid idea back then and it's a stupid idea now.

If you regard those things as superficial, you must have an idea of things that aren't superficial. What would those be?

Oh come on! Seriously?! You must know what I mean, surely?

When was the last time Beefeaters were at the cutting edge of British culture? When were they ever at the cutting edge of British culture? Hell, most British people, if you stopped them in the street probably couldn't tell you what a Beefeater's job actually is. I don't like Pork Pies, does that suddenly make me 'Not British Enough' despite being born and bred here? Stonehenge, I will grant, is a national landmark and one of, if not the biggest source of pre-Roman British history still standing, but all the same, can you look at Stonehenge and suddenly know everything there is to know about Britain? (I'll give you a clue, the answer is 'No'). Chicken Tikka Masala is probably more relevant to modern Britain than all three of those examples put together, and it still doesn't actually tell an outsider anything that's of any use.

The whole point I was making is that you can't just pick a few reference points that are related to British culture in some marginal respect out of a lucky dip and say "There you go. That's what it means to be British." Not only is that dumb and doesn't actually tell anyone anything of substance about Britain, but it just reinforces tired and irrelevant stereotypes. You can't just ask me to reel off a list of non-superficial elements of British culture for you, because the whole point I'm making is that the non-superficial elements are complex, abstract, and ever shifting ideas. It's a stupid thing to try and 'define Britishness' because you can't do it. That's the point I'm making!

 

[putowtin]

"I am heartened that the government has shown a willingness to make the U.K. a high technology exporter," said Dyson during an interview with Radio Times magazine as quoted by the Telegraph. "But I am concerned that we are sometimes distracted by the glamor of web fads and video gaming rather than the development of tangible technology that we can export."

Maybe if he hadn't moved his company from the UK to india so his stupidly priced vac's could be made cheaper and he wouldn't have to pay UK take I might have an interest in anything he might have to say,

As it is he can go get stuffed!

I think the real problem here is that Dyson vacuum cleaners aren't even that good. Wake up to the truth people!

I vote Vax every time.

My good man, do not over look the Henry

The vacuum that smiles at you!

 

[Gilhelmi]

He makes a point, of sorts, but I can't help but feel like this is sour grapes from the guy that sells vacuums for $3,000 a pop

Okay, forgive me if $3000 was you being deliberately flippant, but seriously?!

An expensive Dyson is about $5-600 (the equivalent of) here in English land, the cheaper ones half that. It's not cheap but they last for years and they stock spares for old models. Someone's making a killing selling them for $3k...

The annoying thing about Mr Dyson is that he tends to be right a lot, which keeps making him richer. Even more annoying is that Dyson is registered to the UK and he pays his taxes, so you can't even hold that against the man, arse.

Speaking of which, there are a whole bunch of completely worthless 'game development' degree courses in the UK where graduates come out with some top-down shooter and a couple of walk cycles to show for three years work...

The most annoying thing is the bit about educating foreign students. Because he is right. I like immigrants, but I want them to stay and I want the money they make to stay as well (or at most, sent back to help the relatives move to the country).

Of course, I say this as someone who thinks it should be illegal for foreign companies to buy large amounts of land. (note I said "large", they can buy regional HQ, or buy land to build facilities on. I am talking about the ones who pay obscene prices for land, and try to rent it out to farmers, who can not afford to rent that farm ground now, because the foreigner thinks that they should be able to make money on the land (after taxes and bank loans) in year one. {/rant} ya, it just happen here and a lot of people are upset by it, because it means that much less income the farmer of our area can bring in.)

 

[viranimus]

Its not really a bad thing though. Those game devs with understanding of developing in virtual environments will soon BE the engineers you are looking for as physible technology takes off as digital printing opens up a world of new design possibilities.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

Oh come on! Seriously?! You must know what I mean, surely?

When was the last time Beefeaters were at the cutting edge of British culture? When were they ever at the cutting edge of British culture? Hell, most British people, if you stopped them in the street probably couldn't tell you what a Beefeater's job actually is. I don't like Pork Pies, does that suddenly make me 'Not British Enough' despite being born and bred here? Stonehenge, I will grant, is a national landmark and one of, if not the biggest source of pre-Roman British history still standing, but all the same, can you look at Stonehenge and suddenly know everything there is to know about Britain? (I'll give you a clue, the answer is 'No'). Chicken Tikka Masala is probably more relevant to modern Britain than all three of those examples put together, and it still doesn't actually tell an outsider anything that's of any use.

The whole point I was making is that you can't just pick a few reference points that are related to British culture in some marginal respect out of a lucky dip and say "There you go. That's what it means to be British." Not only is that dumb and doesn't actually tell anyone anything of substance about Britain, but it just reinforces tired and irrelevant stereotypes. You can't just ask me to reel off a list of non-superficial elements of British culture for you, because the whole point I'm making is that the non-superficial elements are complex, abstract, and ever shifting ideas. It's a stupid thing to try and 'define Britishness' because you can't do it. That's the point I'm making!

Okay, fair enough and I agree it's a stupid idea by the government. But you also said there's no such thing as Britishness.

All the little things add up. The matrix of historical factors which led to something as 'superficial' as the beefeater and the range of possibilities it provided and still provides for the willful activity of an individual are uniquely British. Same goes for Chicken Masala in the context of its assimilation into British culture through colonization. They're embedded in the history of every British person, passed on through the British language through education and its everyday use and part of the immense range of 'things' that make someone British as opposed to Iranian. You may not be able to see them but they're right there, present for everyone and unavoidable, unless you're a total hermit.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

Oh come on! Seriously?! You must know what I mean, surely?

When was the last time Beefeaters were at the cutting edge of British culture? When were they ever at the cutting edge of British culture? Hell, most British people, if you stopped them in the street probably couldn't tell you what a Beefeater's job actually is. I don't like Pork Pies, does that suddenly make me 'Not British Enough' despite being born and bred here? Stonehenge, I will grant, is a national landmark and one of, if not the biggest source of pre-Roman British history still standing, but all the same, can you look at Stonehenge and suddenly know everything there is to know about Britain? (I'll give you a clue, the answer is 'No'). Chicken Tikka Masala is probably more relevant to modern Britain than all three of those examples put together, and it still doesn't actually tell an outsider anything that's of any use.

The whole point I was making is that you can't just pick a few reference points that are related to British culture in some marginal respect out of a lucky dip and say "There you go. That's what it means to be British." Not only is that dumb and doesn't actually tell anyone anything of substance about Britain, but it just reinforces tired and irrelevant stereotypes. You can't just ask me to reel off a list of non-superficial elements of British culture for you, because the whole point I'm making is that the non-superficial elements are complex, abstract, and ever shifting ideas. It's a stupid thing to try and 'define Britishness' because you can't do it. That's the point I'm making!

Okay, fair enough and I agree it's a stupid idea by the government. But you also said there's no such thing as Britishness.

All the little things add up. The matrix of historical factors which led to something as 'superficial' as the beefeater and the range of possibilities it provided and still provides for the willful activity of an individual are uniquely British. Same goes for Chicken Masala in the context of its assimilation into British culture through colonization. They're embedded in the history of every British person, passed on through the British language through education and its everyday use and part of the immense range of 'things' that make someone British as opposed to Iranian. You may not be able to see them but they're right there, present for everyone and unavoidable, unless you're a total hermit.

Well, I said that Britishness was not a value you could define in a test or a check list, not that it didn't exist. At least, that was what I meant.

 

[Baneat]

I studied Electronic Engineering at university, while my boyfriend studied Mechanical Engineering. Our experience (and the experience of other people on both our courses) is that it's really hard to get an engineering job in this country.
.

I'm going to assume you're in the UK since Lord Dyson is British. The rate of employment within the industry from 6 months after graduation in Strathclyde university's EE/ME dept. is 90%

90% of people who got their bachelor's or master's degree got a relevant job.

Your statement is less true for the field of engineers than any other field.

 

[Bolt Van Der Huge]

I'm sorry, but it's "fewer" game devs. Dyson wants fewer game devs, not less. It seems like the author's grammar...
*sunglasses*
... sucks.
YEEAAHHAHHHHHH

 

[Simalacrum]

The man is right.

Seriously.

Our engineering (and scientific research) courses don't have enough funding as it is. We need far more encouragement in those sectors I believe, and in all brutal honesty, those sectors are far more important than the video game industry right now, especially with the real and serious threat of global warming: Britain needs good scientists and engineers to help confront very serious problems, and we're not giving them the funding they deserve.

 

[Zeren]

My vacuum cleaner is nearly a decade old and works just fine. I think we're good for vacuum cleaners. Games on the other hand, have a lot of kinks to work out.

My grandmother has a 40 year old Kirby vacuum like this one that works better than my five year old Dyson.

I think games are more worth the investment than overpriced vacuums Mr. Dyson.

 

[TheRealCJ]

Translation: A shortage of qualified engineers is creating an employee's market where labor is too expensive. Please create a glut of overeducated engineers so I can depress wages, and/or provide a government subsidy to lower my costs. After all, a vacuum cleaner is just as important as cultural products like music, film and games, right?

On second thought, from reading the thread it seems there is no such shortage, so I don't know what Dyson is on about.

Or, Or, Or, think about it like this: We have a LOT of great game designers... No so many great hardware engineers. Imagine if we had as many talented engineers as we did programmers? Maybe Kinect wouldn't suck, or we'd have consoles that can actually rival PCs for graphical quality.

 

[Darkness665]

Here in the US was have a solution. Let the government guarantee student loans by banks. Then charge too much interest. Threaten them repeatedly if they are unable to pay because there is no work. The wonderful Republican Party doesn't understand that giving students loans for zero percent would be better then burying the next generation in debt they cannot get out for twenty years. They just don't want to raise taxes on their rich friends, they would rather crush everybody else under foot.

And on the Video Game end. Do you realize how many game developers couldn't give you a requirements document to save their life, their mother's life, the life of their dog and cat or anybody they normally commute next to on a daily basis? Virtually all of them. There are so few engineers in that business I have no idea how he thought the two subjects were connected in anyway.

 

[TheRealCJ]

old janitor flames government

if he wants to impress me, the title should be:

old janitor creates 60,000 jobs

the fact that we've spent as long playing games and watching tv as there has been time is quite true
man hours rack up really quick, do the math on one or two online games and your head will explode!

but people need leisure time and thus leisure must be created, without it we'd either go insane or
become mindless drones, endlessly gluing parts to vacuum cleaners on a never ending assembly line
and it's none of Dyson's business where, when or on what people spend their leisure time

if gaming hasn't become an obsession in your life that you shrug all other duty's to do it then
frankly power to you

Congratulations on having no idea how the real world works.

 

[TheRealCJ]

He makes a point, of sorts, but I can't help but feel like this is sour grapes from the guy that sells vacuums for $3,000 a pop

Might be more concerned with his own business than the future of technology

and those bladeless fans, you could fill a whole room with ordinary fans for the price of one of those things. I think the engineers in Britain's future should work towards taking what he makes and making it far more affordable. Also because it's obligatory in a topic like this Dyson as a company sucks, their overpriced stuff blows.

If only we could, but he patents damn near every component.

OT: This smacks a bit of all those people out there who go "All those NASA scientists are wasting their time, they should go cure cancer or something".

Except I'll bet that "Overtly British" isn't the point of "britishness" as defined by this thing.

I'd imagine a game about the SAS (Say, like, CoD 4) could probably Qualify. or a game simply set in Britain. You've gotta admit, when it comes to games, almost all titles have an overtly American mindset. Hell, Britain's biggest game developer sets ALL their games in America.

 

[RJ 17]

I'd love to play a game based on Monty Python humor. :3

 

[Jfswift]

Maybe Dyson should make games.. about vacuums.

 

[Farther than stars]

Quick English lesson: "Bagless-vacuum inventor" with a hyphen is good grammar, but "bagless vacuum inventor" without a hyphen is bad slander (because slander is never good when it comes to journalistic standards, despite my personal feelings about Dyson in this situation).

 

[Singularly Datarific]

I'm an engineering student. He should stop whining and hire me

Mr. Dyson, hire me too. I want to engineer stuff, we're out here.

 

[MetalMagpie]

I studied Electronic Engineering at university, while my boyfriend studied Mechanical Engineering. Our experience (and the experience of other people on both our courses) is that it's really hard to get an engineering job in this country.
.

I'm going to assume you're in the UK since Lord Dyson is British. The rate of employment within the industry from 6 months after graduation in Strathclyde university's EE/ME dept. is 90%

90% of people who got their bachelor's or master's degree got a relevant job.

Your statement is less true for the field of engineers than any other field.

I am in the UK. And it sounds like Strathclyde University has a lot to be proud of (or a very good PR team). That said, accountancy is often classified as a "relevant" job for engineering students as as their degrees are highly regarded by accountancy firms. And the last figures I saw were that - across the entire country - fewer than 50% of engineering students get a job directly related to their degree.

It's possible that much of the problem myself and my boyfriend experienced was that we (and a number of others on my course) didn't want to build weapons. Of the students I knew who had an engineering job lined up for after they finished university, all but one were either being employed by the military or by weapons manufacturers (and the one exception was moving to Germany).

It may also be a problem that is a lot worse in London (our search area) than anywhere else, but it's still galling for my boyfriend to constantly hear that the country is "desperate for engineering students" when he had to fight so hard for a job and gets paid only slightly better than if he hadn't bothered to go to university at all.