Baldur's Gate 3

BrawlMan

Lover of beat'em ups.
Legacy
Mar 10, 2016
29,747
12,368
118
Detroit, Michigan
Country
United States of America
Gender
Male
Journalistic integrity feels like it has gone to shit over the last couple of decades as a bonus on top of that, leading to more opinionated articles and even just belief driven stuff injected into the normal discourse of the news. Instead of just reporting on the news, or instead of just focusing on the subject in terms of interviews and such.

Basically it's become outrage driven media rather than an informative one.
This is always been a problem with Fox News even during the 90s and early 2000s. At least CNN and MSNBC still try. I'm not giving them 100% defense either, but they at least try to talk about stuff that isn't always opinionated. I can't speak for every local news in my state, but most just want to get the news across and that's it. With that says most of the local news channels in Michigan are left leaning. Not all though. And even the ones that are more conservative, either had concerns about Trump or wanted nothing to do with him when they could.

The only difference is now is that similar to twitter, everybody has an opinion. No matter if it's the truth, facts, or not. And they like to believe their experts on the subject even when they are not.
 

CriticalGaming

Elite Member
Legacy
Dec 28, 2017
11,276
5,701
118
At least CNN and MSNBC still try. I'm not giving them 100% defense either, but they at least try to talk about stuff that isn't always opinionated.
You know what's funny about this statement? People who watch Fox say the EXACT same thing about Fox over CNN. They are both the same shit, two sides of the same coin. Just because you happen to fall into the opinions of one side over the other doesn't mean they aren't both doing the exact same thing. There are no longer any news stations anywhere that are just news, facts nothing but, that shit died in the 80's when opinions and ragebait got more watchtime.

The only difference is now is that similar to twitter, everybody has an opinion. No matter if it's the truth, facts, or not. And they like to believe their experts on the subject even when they are not.
It's even worse when people value opinions over facts as well. That's why politics always is a hot button issue because people hold their opinions to a higher value standard than the facts. It's just the way the human brain works.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Phoenixmgs

Dreiko

Elite Member
Legacy
May 1, 2020
2,956
1,011
118
CT
Country
usa
Gender
male, pronouns: your majesty/my lord/daddy
This is always been a problem with Fox News even during the 90s and early 2000s. At least CNN and MSNBC still try. I'm not giving them 100% defense either, but they at least try to talk about stuff that isn't always opinionated. I can't speak for every local news in my state, but most just want to get the news across and that's it. With that says most of the local news channels in Michigan are left leaning. Not all though. And even the ones that are more conservative, either had concerns about Trump or wanted nothing to do with him when they could.

The only difference is now is that similar to twitter, everybody has an opinion. No matter if it's the truth, facts, or not. And they like to believe their experts on the subject even when they are not.

This all started in the mid 90s when Clinton signed the telecommunications act that allowed news stations to become huge. We went from 30+ companies to 6 that just bought up everyone else. And then they changed news into something that's supposed to make a profit, when it used to lose money to news stations in the past and was more like a public service they did to be good citizens. So now it has to fish for negativity and drama because that gets more eyes and they have a profit motive to be terrible at telling you the real information.

Just because something is in the news doesn't mean it's the truth either. Like for example they were making such a fuss about ivermectin calling it a horse medicine, and now it is shown to prevent covid in vitro, and needs more studying thanks to that. People could have just been humble and not make fun of people for supposedly taking horse medicine and just let science take its time and conduct studies that require months if not years of investigation, but that doesn't help the bottom line.
 

Ag3ma

Elite Member
Jan 4, 2023
2,574
2,209
118
Journalistic integrity feels like it has gone to shit over the last couple of decades as a bonus on top of that, leading to more opinionated articles and even just belief driven stuff injected into the normal discourse of the news. Instead of just reporting on the news, or instead of just focusing on the subject in terms of interviews and such.

Basically it's become outrage driven media rather than an informative one.
Standards have dropped at the major outlets somewhat, I think, but it's plummetted everywhere else - and computer game journalism is a niche area that's rarely going to employ heavy-hitting, big talents.

But then as Eacaraxe pointed out about computer games, this is really about consumer awareness: and bluntly, the consumers are spreading the shit far and wide, amplify and gratifying it. I would go so far as to say that society has the journalism that it has asked for (or created, or is willing to pay for, or even deserves, or however you want to put it).
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

Dreiko

Elite Member
Legacy
May 1, 2020
2,956
1,011
118
CT
Country
usa
Gender
male, pronouns: your majesty/my lord/daddy
Standards have dropped at the major outlets somewhat, I think, but it's plummetted everywhere else - and computer game journalism is a niche area that's rarely going to employ heavy-hitting, big talents.

But then as Eacaraxe pointed out about computer games, this is really about consumer awareness: and bluntly, the consumers are spreading the shit far and wide, amplify and gratifying it. I would go so far as to say that society has the journalism that it has asked for (or created, or is willing to pay for, or even deserves, or however you want to put it).
I think anyone who has any passion for games has no reason to become a games jounralist, they could do a better jot being a youtuber or a twitch streamer or something and say what they actually believe. If someone like DSP can still somehow survive on the internet, there's space for everyone.


The people who become games journalists are nongamer journalists seeking a paycheck. For example there was an editor from Polygon who revealed in an article about playing bg3 with her husband that she hadn't played any games at all for over a decade before getting that job and that she had no dexterity or reflexes. These are the sorts of people who become games journalists, and why journalists suck at games.
 

CriticalGaming

Elite Member
Legacy
Dec 28, 2017
11,276
5,701
118
I think anyone who has any passion for games has no reason to become a games jounralist, they could do a better jot being a youtuber or a twitch streamer or something and say what they actually believe. If someone like DSP can still somehow survive on the internet, there's space for everyone.


The people who become games journalists are nongamer journalists seeking a paycheck. For example there was an editor from Polygon who revealed in an article about playing bg3 with her husband that she hadn't played any games at all for over a decade before getting that job and that she had no dexterity or reflexes. These are the sorts of people who become games journalists, and why journalists suck at games.
A lot of people don't consider it, but gaming is a skill set that you need to develop and practice. It's second nature to people who've played games their whole lives, but slap a controller in someone's hands who has never played a video game before and they'll rapidly get absolutely nowhere. Just like sticking a musical instrument in someone who's never touched one before and you'll be lucky to get anything out of it that makes sense (except piano because you can't "miss" notes on piano) even that is hard to play any couple note that make sense.

So these journalists thinking they can just do their writing in this field without having to know what to do, are doomed to quickly become jokes.

I would go so far as to say that society has the journalism that it has asked for (or created, or is willing to pay for, or even deserves, or however you want to put it).
100-fucking-percent. People watch more when the news makes them angry or when something outrages them. These News companies then feed into that in order to drive watch time and sell commercial space. It's manipulation that the public has bought into and at this point is pretty irreversible.
 

BrawlMan

Lover of beat'em ups.
Legacy
Mar 10, 2016
29,747
12,368
118
Detroit, Michigan
Country
United States of America
Gender
Male
You know what's funny about this statement? People who watch Fox say the EXACT same thing about Fox over CNN.
That's because they don't actually watch. They'll see a few clips here and there and move the hell on without paying attention or putting their own biases against what they're actually watching. I have seen plenty of fox clips in their full entirety, but there's only so much I can stomach before it's the same crap over and over again. Like I said before I'm not giving 100% to it any of these news networks but if you put a gun to my head, I would take CNN or MSNBC 24/7 over Fox news. And with that also said, I'll take any of my local news over the major news networks. The local news ain't perfect either but they actually get their jobs done. Now they do go overboard and repeat some of the same stories over and over that are currently hot or been said to death, but they actually go after different things that or make sure to focus on the actual important local news.


It's even worse when people value opinions over facts as well. That's why politics always is a hot button issue because people hold their opinions to a higher value standard than the facts. It's just the way the human brain works.
And even when proven wrong and right in front of their phrase, they don't want to admit it because that means they will be wrong about several other things or really screwed the pooch. Like those Trump supporters and terrorists that attacked the travel and tried to do an assassination attempt and coup d'etat on the American government.




This all started in the mid 90s when Clinton signed the telecommunications act that allowed news stations to become huge. We went from 30+ companies to 6 that just bought up everyone else. And then they changed news into something that's supposed to make a profit, when it used to lose money to news stations in the past and was more like a public service they did to be good citizens. So now it has to fish for negativity and drama because that gets more eyes and they have a profit motive to be terrible at telling you the real information.
Yep.

Just because something is in the news doesn't mean it's the truth either. Like for example they were making such a fuss about ivermectin calling it a horse medicine, and now it is shown to prevent covid in vitro, and needs more studying thanks to that. People could have just been humble and not make fun of people for supposedly taking horse medicine and just let science take its time and conduct studies that require months if not years of investigation, but that doesn't help the bottom line.
Still doesn't change the fact that the ones that were dumb enough to take it, took it in a panic or thinking nothing would happen to them without doing what it's actually in that liquid or drug. Not the smartest decision. Regardless of which side, it's why you talk or wait for the medical experts and not so armchair know nothing know it all with a webcam or some talking box on Fox News.
 

CriticalGaming

Elite Member
Legacy
Dec 28, 2017
11,276
5,701
118
They'll see a few clips here and there and move the hell on without paying attention or putting their own biases against what they're actually watching.
I mean are you not doing the exact same thing? Look both sides are bad, there is no reason to try to justify the one you like better as "slightly less bad". CNN has been caught on several occasions completely making shit up. They are both sensationalistic news. They both make shit up for views, they both push the boundries of how outlandish the things they say can be. It's the same coin.

I don't watch either because I think they're both corrupt garbage but I do find it amusing the lengths people will go to try and justify why their preferred network is somehow the "good" one.
 

Ag3ma

Elite Member
Jan 4, 2023
2,574
2,209
118
I think anyone who has any passion for games has no reason to become a games jounralist, they could do a better jot being a youtuber or a twitch streamer or something and say what they actually believe. If someone like DSP can still somehow survive on the internet, there's space for everyone.
Massive caveats here.

Firstly, it is well known that an audience can alter people's views: they need that audience, so they are liable to shift their actions and statements to gratify and grow the audience. Thus the spectator has no idea at all whether they are saying what they believe, they could be putting it on because they think they'll get more views and likes. Secondly, self-employment is often risky and insecure: many people will prefer the safety of a regular paycheck, thus a job writing for an online magazine. Or of course they are potentially good writers, but poor on camera: typing up stuff for Polygon etc. plays to their strengths where Twitch/YouTube doesn't.

The people who become games journalists are nongamer journalists seeking a paycheck. For example there was an editor from Polygon who revealed in an article about playing bg3 with her husband that she hadn't played any games at all for over a decade before getting that job and that she had no dexterity or reflexes. These are the sorts of people who become games journalists, and why journalists suck at games.
Neither of these are really fair criticisms.

Just because someone hasn't played games for a while doesn't mean they can't start up again and do the job fine. (I'd feel a bit funny about a game journo that had never played games, unless the hook was about a newbie's experience of getting into games.) And having poor dexterity at a game shouldn't bar anyone from being able to play, enjoy and appraise a game: especially when that game is BG3 where good dexterity and reflexes aren't remotely necessary. Also, I like some people with bad dexterity and reflexes playing certain games, because it makes my score better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

CriticalGaming

Elite Member
Legacy
Dec 28, 2017
11,276
5,701
118
Just because someone hasn't played games for a while doesn't mean they can't start up again and do the job fine
Correct, but the general appearance is that they don't. Do so would require them to actually care. And if you don't care about your job, you are not ever going to be good at it.
 

BrawlMan

Lover of beat'em ups.
Legacy
Mar 10, 2016
29,747
12,368
118
Detroit, Michigan
Country
United States of America
Gender
Male
I mean are you not doing the exact same thing? Look both sides are bad, there is no reason to try to justify the one you like better as "slightly less bad". CNN has been caught on several occasions completely making shit up. They are both sensationalistic news. They both make shit up for views, they both push the boundries of how outlandish the things they say can be. It's the same coin.

I don't watch either because I think they're both corrupt garbage but I do find it amusing the lengths people will go to try and justify why their preferred network is somehow the "good" one.
No. I have tried watching full clips in their entirety and it was not fun. Not doing it again. I'm not going to go for the whole both sides of bad argument, because Fox is way way worse. I don't care how you feel on that. They can't even begin to try and I don't watch CNN or MSNBC everyday. I really haven't touched them since 2019 and 2020 much. And even then I didn't go to them that often. I like pulling from various sources myself, but I don't rely on a single news source 24/7. I learned that the easy way growing up.

That is all I have to say on the matter because I'm not dragging this out. Fox News has come to the defense of Trump and his cronies again and again, either making excuses, lying, or just gaslighting their audience in the thinking those terrorists were heroes, or "misunderstood victims", and they did nothing wrong. You've already had this discussion back in the current events thread and we're not going through it again. No they're full of crap so much more in that regard and beyond. So let's not even go with the both sides are bad "arguement".

It's gotten off topic enough already. Keep the focus on BG3.
 
Last edited:

Ag3ma

Elite Member
Jan 4, 2023
2,574
2,209
118
Correct, but the general appearance is that they don't. Do so would require them to actually care. And if you don't care about your job, you are not ever going to be good at it.
You'd want to know context. They might have stopped gaming for all sorts of reasons: chronic illness, work pressures, relationship, childcare, etc. Or maybe they just mean they don't mean they didn't play games at all, they just weren't playing certain sorts of games (e.g. were maybe casual gaming only).
 

CriticalGaming

Elite Member
Legacy
Dec 28, 2017
11,276
5,701
118
You'd want to know context. They might have stopped gaming for all sorts of reasons: chronic illness, work pressures, relationship, childcare, etc. Or maybe they just mean they don't mean they didn't play games at all, they just weren't playing certain sorts of games (e.g. were maybe casual gaming only).
But passion tend to overcome that. If there is a passion for it, then there would still be investment in the hobby some other way. Game knowledge, industry knowledge, things of that nature. Which is not what we see in a lot of the articles that get written, especially one making attempts at being hit pieces.

Bottom line is when you have a passion for doing something you find ways to do it. Like the professional fighting game player who's blind, or the one who uses a breathing controller because he can only move his head and mouth. There was also a great wow PVPer who played using a breath controller. And those are only the players to excel dispite the handicaps. That isn't to include the vast majority of other holds back to traditional playing in which people still find ways to get their play on.

True you can't really know another person's struggle. But you can absolutely know the quality of their work and make judgements based off that. When your work shows you don't care, you probably don't care and there isn't an underlying reason for it.
 

Dreiko

Elite Member
Legacy
May 1, 2020
2,956
1,011
118
CT
Country
usa
Gender
male, pronouns: your majesty/my lord/daddy
Still doesn't change the fact that the ones that were dumb enough to take it, took it in a panic or thinking nothing would happen to them without doing what it's actually in that liquid or drug. Not the smartest decision. Regardless of which side, it's why you talk or wait for the medical experts and not so armchair know nothing know it all with a webcam or some talking box on Fox News.

Of course just taking the experimental medicine is not smart. But at the same time people treating it like it was for horses in the media, when they shoulda just been clear that it just needs more research and it could be helpful or not, is definitely not what we should expect form the news. I can forgive scared laymen who potentially may have lost family to covid or are unable to work and aren't thinking straight but the media should be held to a higher standard. The reason they did this btw, is that pharmaceutical corporations are some of the biggest advertisers who buy tons of ads for the media and Ivermectin's patent had ran out so they didn't stand to gain any serious profit from selling it like they could with the vaccines, so it wasn't concern for the public motivating them, it was greed.



Massive caveats here.

Firstly, it is well known that an audience can alter people's views: they need that audience, so they are liable to shift their actions and statements to gratify and grow the audience. Thus the spectator has no idea at all whether they are saying what they believe, they could be putting it on because they think they'll get more views and likes. Secondly, self-employment is often risky and insecure: many people will prefer the safety of a regular paycheck, thus a job writing for an online magazine. Or of course they are potentially good writers, but poor on camera: typing up stuff for Polygon etc. plays to their strengths where Twitch/YouTube doesn't.
You're not wrong on that. I just think it eventually surfaces and if you're not real you will not garner or maintain an audience long term. There's a reason why people like Angry Joe have lasted for so long. Meanwhile audience captured folks or other fake people don't go far.

Neither of these are really fair criticisms.

Just because someone hasn't played games for a while doesn't mean they can't start up again and do the job fine. (I'd feel a bit funny about a game journo that had never played games, unless the hook was about a newbie's experience of getting into games.) And having poor dexterity at a game shouldn't bar anyone from being able to play, enjoy and appraise a game: especially when that game is BG3 where good dexterity and reflexes aren't remotely necessary. Also, I like some people with bad dexterity and reflexes playing certain games, because it makes my score better.


I think you're applying the standard of a general gamer to judge a journalist here. Sure, you can start anytime and it's valid and all that. But you don't get to be the authoritative voice on the subject you're just a novice at best at. And if you wanna make a journal of your foray into this new experience you couch your words in that inexperience and lack of authority if you seek to be modest. You don't just fake it till you make it, opining left and right as if you're the right hand of god on the subject on things you clearly have no clue on.


The bad dexterity isn't an issue of someone like, missing an arm or something, it's just them not having practiced at all so sucking at doing button inputs due to inexperience. There was a literal blind man who placed well on the SF6 tourney at evo, playing through sound ques and executing motions he couldn't even see with his fingers. You can train dexterity if you just put in the time, and it should be required that someone has that minimal time investment before they start telling others what's what for their feedback to be of use.
 

BrawlMan

Lover of beat'em ups.
Legacy
Mar 10, 2016
29,747
12,368
118
Detroit, Michigan
Country
United States of America
Gender
Male
Of course just taking the experimental medicine is not smart. But at the same time people treating it like it was for horses in the media, when they shoulda just been clear that it just needs more research and it could be helpful or not, is definitely not what we should expect form the news. I can forgive scared laymen who potentially may have lost family to covid or are unable to work and aren't thinking straight but the media should be held to a higher standard. The reason they did this btw, is that pharmaceutical corporations are some of the biggest advertisers who buy tons of ads for the media and Ivermectin's patent had ran out so they didn't stand to gain any serious profit from selling it like they could with the vaccines, so it wasn't concern for the public motivating them, it was greed.
Yeah, I'm well aware of what happened. Everyone has to take accountability and responsibility. The pharmaceuticals and certain groups and individuals in the news media and YouTube are assholes as well. Though why none of the desperate or ones stupid enough not to bother with the CDC website is beyond me. That's all they had to do. I am not saying anything else on this.
 
Jun 11, 2023
3,040
2,227
118
Country
United States
Gender
Male
You know what's funny about this statement? People who watch Fox say the EXACT same thing about Fox over CNN. They are both the same shit, two sides of the same coin. Just because you happen to fall into the opinions of one side over the other doesn't mean they aren't both doing the exact same thing. There are no longer any news stations anywhere that are just news, facts nothing but, that shit died in the 80's when opinions and ragebait got more watchtime.



It's even worse when people value opinions over facts as well. That's why politics always is a hot button issue because people hold their opinions to a higher value standard than the facts. It's just the way the human brain works.
And, let’s not forget that facts are often buried, twisted, etc. at the behest of the highest bidders. Money ultimately controls the narrative, and swaying public opinion is easier than ever with everyone connected to everything.

Anyways, we could probably blame Joseph Pulitzer for sensationalism of the news. He tapped right into how the human brain works.

 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

thebobmaster

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 5, 2020
2,637
2,569
118
Country
United States
Started BG 3, already met too many people to have in my party. Too early for me to determine how I feel about Astarion or Gale, but I'm definitely leaning more towards Shadowheart than Lae'zel. Never been a fan of the ultra-"must fight everyone, and diplomacy is weak" characters.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CriticalGaming

CriticalGaming

Elite Member
Legacy
Dec 28, 2017
11,276
5,701
118
Started BG 3, already met too many people to have in my party. Too early for me to determine how I feel about Astarion or Gale, but I'm definitely leaning more towards Shadowheart than Lae'zel. Never been a fan of the ultra-"must fight everyone, and diplomacy is weak" characters.
Choose your party wisely lol.
 

Dreiko

Elite Member
Legacy
May 1, 2020
2,956
1,011
118
CT
Country
usa
Gender
male, pronouns: your majesty/my lord/daddy
You can just swap them around at camp on the fly, I typically try to use everyone in these games. Though having someone who can pick locks and someone who can heal with you at all times is very useful.


And, let’s not forget that facts are often buried, twisted, etc. at the behest of the highest bidders. Money ultimately controls the narrative, and swaying public opinion is easier than ever with everyone connected to everything.

Anyways, we could probably blame Joseph Pulitzer for sensationalism of the news. He tapped right into how the human brain works.

Add to this manufacturing consent as described by Chomsky in his book and you get the unholy mix we see nowadays.