Baldur's Gate 3

[Bartholen]

Oh, and one nitpick about BG3 that's entirely about my personal tastes: Karlach and Gale's backstories smack of what I would call "special snowflake DnD syndrome". There's just something offputting to me about making someone the former lover of a goddess, or the personal attack dog of one of the archdukes of hell. Like they couldn't just have their own personal stories, they had to be connected to the biggest and baddest and most important things ever! It kind of cheapens and lessens the world to be traveling with someone who has God on speed dial within the first couple of hours.

 

[Zykon TheLich]

Dual-wield paladin, so first it was the Blood of Lathander then it was Phalar Aluve with a big ol' holy smite on it.

I don't know what those first two things are, but no-one likes getting smote in the face. I guess Shadowheart disapproves.

Edit: Thinking about it, I suppose those are named magical weapons?

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

[QUOTE="Bartholen, post: 13282433]

For one, it's very similar to Divinity: Original Sin 2 in a lot of ways, and not all of them positive. That's overall not a bad thing, but it just doesn't give much of a feeling that I'm playing something new or different. That's mostly on me though: I have hundreds of hours in both D:OS 2 and Dungeons and Dragons itself, so no matter what, this game was going to feel familiar. But were it not for the zoom-ins during dialogues I'd very easily forget I wasn't playing D:OS2.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah we all knew this game was Divinity + D&D, it’s why people bought it early access. It’s why I’m so amused by its attention now in games media who are like “who saw this coming?!” We.. we all did lol.

I quit D:OS2 towards the end of act 1, just getting slaughtered and too annoyed and bored to keep going. I was playing as the bard lady with a monster in her head and I was getting interested in her story but I guess I’m too stupid or impatient to manage a whole party and their inventories and battlefields. I knew I was looking at something clever and well done but i dunno what to do with it. Like modern painting or something.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

They do put in Scottish or Yorkshire/generic northern for dwarves sometimes.

Dwarves are Swedish in my headcanon.

 

[chozo_hybrid]

Still stuck in the goblin camp. I have been hit on by one party member, though. Lae'zel

She hates my guts lol, luckily I don't need the fighter all too much.

Oh, and one nitpick about BG3 that's entirely about my personal tastes: Karlach and Gale's backstories smack of what I would call "special snowflake DnD syndrome". There's just something offputting to me about making someone the former lover of a goddess, or the personal attack dog of one of the archdukes of hell. Like they couldn't just have their own personal stories, they had to be connected to the biggest and baddest and most important things ever! It kind of cheapens and lessens the world to be traveling with someone who has God on speed dial within the first couple of hours.

I reckon Gale is puffing his chest, but I am still supposedly in ACT 1 (Am in the Underdark for the first time for ref), so no idea if we get to see the truth, but if he is, absolutely agree. I like Gale, but that backstory is very I AM THE SPECIAL! Does he have her on speed dial? He's conjured an image of her, but I haven't seen any communication. As for Karlach, I'm kind of okay with it, at least because she was enslaved and such, hers at least has some real stakes it seems. Gale we just feed the odd magic item.

 

[Bartholen]

I quit D:OS2 towards the end of act 1, just getting slaughtered and too annoyed and bored to keep going. I was playing as the bard lady with a monster in her head and I was getting interested in her story but I guess I’m too stupid or impatient to manage a whole party and their inventories and battlefields. I knew I was looking at something clever and well done but i dunno what to do with it. Like modern painting or something.

D:OS2 is one of the best RPGs of the entire 2010s, but it does have a fair bit of barrier to entry. It's pretty difficult and highly tactical even on the default setting, and you're basically expected to abuse its systems for maximum effect (Knockdown is a hugely OP status effect for example). It also has an insane amount of inventory management, which can be very tedious and the Larian inventory system isn't great to begin with. If you ever decide to get back to it, I recommend investing heavily into the Summon skills with at least one character, since it gives you basically a free party member. I'd almost call it Easier mode for how drastically it changes the game's dynamics. Lohse also has probably the best storyline of any party member/PC in the game, so you made the right pick on that one.

On a sidenote, I think it's weird how inventory systems in RPGs have never been standardized in the same way, say, UIs in FPS games have. I think the best one I've come across is the one from Dragon Age: Origins, but that's about the only game I've ever encountered such a system. RPGs for some reason feel the need to try to reinvent the wheel every time.

 

[Ag3ma]

Seriously... Literally like every known gaming channel is making fun of these developer comments. The vast majority are disagreeing with your view and you're the one trying to gaslight us into thinking our view is the minority.

I didn't say anyone was a minority piling in on these other devs.

It is just a dogpile. There's a load of people out there with egos so fragile that they can't handle even the mildest criticism of their favourite thing. A bunch of BG3 fans saw someone give less than completely complimentary opinion, spat their dummies out and starting whining. And then a load more gamers, who never bothered to read or think about what the original dev comments were, all got in on the act because it was the latest social media fad in their little corner of the internet.

You know why I don't buy any AAA games?...

I couldn't give a damn about how awesome you think you are.

 

[Ag3ma]

They do put in Scottish or Yorkshire/generic northern for dwarves sometimes.

Where most English language consumers are American, British English sounds more... foreign? Exotic? Old world? This helps in a fantasy game because it makes it feel more distant from the real world.

Then, the British Isles have a wide range of strong regional accents (more so, I perceive, than the USA does but I could be wrong). You think posh as an English speaker, even many non-Britons would think about how the British upper classes speak. So RP is posh, Yorkshire and Scotland are associated with no-nonsense people who live in hills/mountains with mining industry (so dwarves), and a wide range of "rustic" accents from areas traditionally associated with agriculture (East Anglia, West Country, Ireland) for peasants.

Viewed in terms of stereotyping, some of this can be a bit cringey.

 

[Baffle]

I don't know what those first two things are, but no-one likes getting smote in the face. I guess Shadowheart disapproves.

Edit: Thinking about it, I suppose those are named magical weapons?

They are indeed, +3 bay-be! (Just the mace.)

 

[Ag3ma]

I don't know what those first two things are, but no-one likes getting smote in the face. I guess Shadowheart disapproves.

Shadowheart is possibly quite uneven as a character.

She seems to like a certain level of selfishness and sneakiness, but also seems to like benevolence and peaceful solutions (or at least she strongly dislikes cruelty) - however this seems strongly at odds with her deity, who seems to murder and torture for shits and giggles. Although later in the game with the right options, she'll switch to Selune which probably suits her personality better.

 

[Zykon TheLich]

Shadowheart is possibly quite uneven as a character.

She seems to like a certain level of selfishness and sneakiness, but also seems to like benevolence and peaceful solutions (or at least she strongly dislikes cruelty) - however this seems strongly at odds with her deity, who seems to murder and torture for shits and giggles. Although later in the game with the right options, she'll switch to Selune which probably suits her personality better.

Chaotic neutral then?

Where most English language consumers are American, British English sounds more... foreign? Exotic? Old world? This helps in a fantasy game because it makes it feel more distant from the real world.

Then, the British Isles have a wide range of strong regional accents (more so, I perceive, than the USA does but I could be wrong). You think posh as an English speaker, even many non-Britons would think about how the British upper classes speak. So RP is posh, Yorkshire and Scotland are associated with no-nonsense people who live in hills/mountains with mining industry (so dwarves), and a wide range of "rustic" accents from areas traditionally associated with agriculture (East Anglia, West Country, Ireland) for peasants.

Viewed in terms of stereotyping, some of this can be a bit cringey.

Pretty much a fantasy trope isn't it? I get why, it conveys something about the character to an audience.

 

[Ag3ma]

Chaotic neutral then?

I think that would be a reasonable description of Shadowheart, but I'm pretty sure her deity Shar would be neutral/chaotic evil.

Dual-wield paladin, so first it was the Blood of Lathander then it was Phalar Aluve with a big ol' holy smite on it.

I gave Shadowheart the Blood of Lathander. I don't know how the gods feel about their holy relics being used by priests of another deity, but evidently neither Lathander or Shar did anything about it. And that beam attack it has is extremely tasty.

 

[sXeth]

Shadowheart is possibly quite uneven as a character.

She seems to like a certain level of selfishness and sneakiness, but also seems to like benevolence and peaceful solutions (or at least she strongly dislikes cruelty) - however this seems strongly at odds with her deity, who seems to murder and torture for shits and giggles. Although later in the game with the right options, she'll switch to Selune which probably suits her personality better.

Yeah the game has a (well, its at least accurate to the BG originals) tendency for all the nonsense characters. Oh theyre evil but they'll still be heroic and so on because the narrative demands. And the vast majority will be redeemable.

Viconia (the Drow cleric in the originals) did basically the same schtick, with a bunch of the "why do these surface dwellers try and kill me" schtick thrown in too. (and was also, nonsencially, a cleric of Shar even).

 

[BrawlMan]

​

 

[Baffle]

I gave Shadowheart the Blood of Lathander. I don't know how the gods feel about their holy relics being used by priests of another deity, but evidently neither Lathander or Shar did anything about it. And that beam attack it has is extremely tasty.

I gave it to her wrong end first, and now I've got the other mace that she was holding that also does the holy beam spell. I am basically a half-orc laser beam now, trying to decide which party member is going to get evaporated next (it's Astarion).

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Yeah we all knew this game was Divinity + D&D, it’s why people bought it early access. It’s why I’m so amused by its attention now in games media who are like “who saw this coming?!” We.. we all did lol.

I quit D:OS2 towards the end of act 1, just getting slaughtered and too annoyed and bored to keep going. I was playing as the bard lady with a monster in her head and I was getting interested in her story but I guess I’m too stupid or impatient to manage a whole party and their inventories and battlefields. I knew I was looking at something clever and well done but i dunno what to do with it. Like modern painting or something.

Divinity 2 difficulty was pretty cranked up combat-wise. I'm still haven't gotten very far in BG3 but the combat so far is very doable without even the knowing the systems in and out. If Larian is balancing the battles based on CR (actual DnD) then the battles won't be too tough. My current DnD 5e campaign is being run by a person pretty new to DMing and just this Saturday we had a fight go super easy and after the session she was saying how surprised she was with how it went because it was supposed to be a hard battle based on CR. Another player who also DMs 5e said basically that you gotta make a "hard" battle twice as hard for it to actually be hard. The CR system has trouble accounting for using normal spells normally (let alone min/maxing or exploiting shit). For example, I'm a druid and casted conjure animals (just a 3rd level spell) that brought out 8 giant owls and totally skewed the action economy completely in our favor (that's 8 more attacks per full round). The fact that BG3 is based off the DnD ruleset changes all the little things most video game RPGs do poorly (like Divinity 2).

I didn't say anyone was a minority piling in on these other devs.

It is just a dogpile. There's a load of people out there with egos so fragile that they can't handle even the mildest criticism of their favourite thing. A bunch of BG3 fans saw someone give less than completely complimentary opinion, spat their dummies out and starting whining. And then a load more gamers, who never bothered to read or think about what the original dev comments were, all got in on the act because it was the latest social media fad in their little corner of the internet.





I couldn't give a damn about how awesome you think you are.

I only laughed at what the AAA devs said... How much more money went into say Witcher 3 or Diablo 4 or Starfield compared to BG3 and the scope of those games are so much smaller than BG3. Then them saying the scope of BG3 is Rockstar level nonsense is hilarious (Rockstar scope is pretty small too, massive open world game with missions as linear as Uncharted). Just from a game design standpoint, Mercenaries on PS2/Xbox has a larger scope than any Rockstar game ever made. BG3 scope-wise is what every RPG is SUPPOSED to be, not that it has to have as much content or as long, but the things it's doing is supposed to be what every RPG does. You can do it on a much smaller scale like Disco Elysium and nobody is gonna cry that's it's not 100+ hours long. Why can't a AAA studio make a great looking 3D game that's just like Disco Elysium?

And your awesomeness proclamation just whooshed right over your head. You totally never get suckered and never dislike article just because they disagree with your view, sure thing... You must just be so awesome yourself!!! That's why I responded in the way I did because your reply was so pretentious.

Of course you hate the article: it's not just disagreeing with your view but also telling you that you've been suckered, and no-one likes to feel like they're the fool.

 

[Baffle]

Oh, and one nitpick about BG3 that's entirely about my personal tastes: Karlach and Gale's backstories smack of what I would call "special snowflake DnD syndrome".

All of them are like that to a degree (especially Mr Humble Brag Wyll!). Super-mega-bad-dude are you? Then why are you getting trounced by a badger?

 

[Ag3ma]

I gave it to her wrong end first, and now I've got the other mace that she was holding that also does the holy beam spell. I am basically a half-orc laser beam now, trying to decide which party member is going to get evaporated next (it's Astarion).

I have just refused to engage with Astarion at all: not done his quests, won't speak to him, etc.

This is mostly because I just fucking hate vampires as anything other than evil antagonists. No time for that Anne Rice and Poppy Z Brite emotionally tortured, fanged lust bullshit.

 

[Dreiko]

I don't give a shit what you think and what you play, or your whiny claims of victimhood.

Firstly, obviously indie games can be compared to AA/AAA. Anyone who says there is some magic shield that means Queen's Wish, Encased or Black Geyser can't be compared to BG3 or Pathfinder: WotR, and aren't potentially competing for the same gamer time and money, is just delusional.

Secondly, it's not about you, which you'd have noticed had you read properly. I am talking precisely about those sorts of players who see two games of similar style, and ditch the one which necessarily has inferior graphics or other elements because it was made on a fraction of the budget. And this really is a lot of why indy games sell less well. Deal with it.

That's a massive goalpost-shift then, because the sorts of standards that caused worry to the devs were not related to graphics much at all, but rather, to things like lack of microtransactions, amount of voiced content and content in general, and other such things that you can't glean from a screenshot.


Bringing up that some people will ditch a game that looks similar but has worse graphics in a conversation about the above is a total bait and switch. Nobody was talking about those graphics-obsessed people until a moment ago.

 

[sXeth]

All of them are like that to a degree (especially Mr Humble Brag Wyll!). Super-mega-bad-dude are you? Then why are you getting trounced by a badger?

I'd lay the blame for that on Larian, and the whole "any of these can be the "main" character" setup, but its in keeping with the originals too.

whatshisname with the Moonblade in the original BG. Viconia the drow cleric who somehow is on the surface following a non-drow god. The suspiciously low level Red Wizard half a world from Thay (don't get me started on the Kara-turan merc or the Shou Vampire). The wingless winged elf. A non-Duergar evil dwarf (not impossible, but generally rare). And various sundries.

I know 4th and 5th ed particularly started shoving all the exotic stuff into the standard pile so they could say "hey we have these, and that new Pathfinder thing everyones jumping to can't use them cause copywright", but its like they don't know how to make a backstory for a level 1 character.