Baldur's Gate Art Day

[Nuxxy]

On a positive note, the rise of kickstarter and the long-overdue acceptance of non-photo realistic 3D graphics means we might just see a resurgence in RPGs that sacrifice impressive presentation for actual depth.

Torchlight 1 and 2? Action RPGs, true, but it was nice to see someone say "screw the super HD graphics, there are other things we can give them". It's exactly the mindset people need to use if we really want to see "video games as art". Not all paintings are about trying to recreate reality to exact detail.

 

[RedmistSM]

I mean, yeah, its systems are obscure at best and weirdly counter-intuitive at worst, it doesn't have a plot as much as a series of glaring fantasy cliches arranged in a vaguely arc-like pattern and the interface, though improved from the decade-and-a-bit-old original, is still the very definition of clunky. But the game just doesn't bear mockery. It's too huge, too grand in scope, and perhaps too precious to an awkward, English teenager who needed an escape from the pressures of growing up. It wasn't technically the best game of what many think is the golden age of Western RPGs. Daggerfall was bigger, Planescape told a better story (one that still stands as the best narrative in gaming), Fallout was funnier, Arcanum boasted a more interesting setting, Diablo was more fun and Icewind Dale had better multiplayer.

I don't think you did a very good job at selling it. Of course, old PC RPGS in general seem impenetrable and cumbersome, while I wouldn't think twice about trying out older SNES RPGs. This might be because of different upbringings, but I never played anything but platformers, fighters and Zelda on the SNES when I was younger.

The drawing is very nice.

 

[San Martin]

Wall o' text puts down TES!


Cool picture.

That was hilarious! Thanks! But what does it have to do with TES?

 

[Fappy]

Wall o' text puts down TES!


Cool picture.

That was hilarious! Thanks! But what does it have to do with TES?

It was basically my way of saying, "BOOOOOO!"

 

[Malk_Content]

Although lots of my roleplaying friends aren't oceans away, they are cities away which is bad enough. On the plus side we've found we can play pretty much any game that doesn't require miniatures (i.e anything that isn't DnD) perfectly well over something like mumble, using one of the many joint dice roller websites out there. Had a very enjoyable Mage game and the use of mumble and steam chat let me do things you can't do in a real life pnp, the best example being playing a scene out loud with one player, who was being brain washed, with the false information he would be passing onto the group whilst simultaneously typing out the real events over steam to each other.

 

[cidbahamut]

Maybe BG is lousy to make fun of because it doesn't pretend to be anything else than what it is. It lacks hype, pretentiousness, 4th wall-breaking jokes and irony. It simply is. Just like a chair, not much joke material in a chair.

The day shall come when Tiax will point and click!

 

[Nikolaz72]

Although lots of my roleplaying friends aren't oceans away, they are cities away which is bad enough. On the plus side we've found we can play pretty much any game that doesn't require miniatures (i.e anything that isn't DnD) perfectly well over something like mumble, using one of the many joint dice roller websites out there. Had a very enjoyable Mage game and the use of mumble and steam chat let me do things you can't do in a real life pnp, the best example being playing a scene out loud with one player, who was being brain washed, with the false information he would be passing onto the group whilst simultaneously typing out the real events over steam to each other.

Look into Roll20. Online cloudbased program, thats free to use and makes DnD perfectly possible!

 

[saintdane05]

Those Drizzt references... all of those Drizzt references...
I love you.

 

[Yojoo]

In light of the current news concerning BGEE, I'm surprised to see a comic pop up about it that doesn't mention what's going on.

If you weren't aware, it's no longer being sold from Beamdog, with Atari or somebody high up on the food chain totally blocking Beamdog from continuing to work on patching it, enhancing the sequel, etc. Which, to a fan like me, is absolutely heartbreaking.

 

[Necrofudge]

I'm not talking about Bethesda's efforts, which are more or less sub-par action games which try to compensate for their lack of substance with sheer size; A pool that's 8 miles wide and 3 inches deep is a shitty pool.

The bitterness of that statement made me have to lie down. It's like you've never even heard of Morrowind...

 

[immortalfrieza]

I would argue that Bethesda's offerings have much deeper stories than people give them credit for. For one thing, the main story is always fairly good, even if it is kinda short. For another, we all have at least one favorite sidequest that sticks out in our minds long after beating it, sometimes many, and how could that happen if they were so shallow?

I also consider it to make sense that the stories aren't particularly deep, you're just some random guy/girl randomly bumping into people and deciding to help them, it's no wonder that people don't feel the need to tell their entire life stories to a complete stranger nor that you would go out of your way to find out everything about every character involved. At the same time Bethesda games give you the opportunity create your own stories outside of the quests and even somewhat in them, as well as do wacky things like placing a bunch of mines in a row, shooting one, and watching the fireworks, or Fus Ro Dahing random people off ledges.

 

[Bostur]

Maybe BG is lousy to make fun of because it doesn't pretend to be anything else than what it is. It lacks hype, pretentiousness, 4th wall-breaking jokes and irony. It simply is. Just like a chair, not much joke material in a chair.

The day shall come when Tiax will point and click!

Well maybe there was a few ;-) And Rydell and Carter did find the most obvious thing to make fun of after all.

 

[Malk_Content]

Although lots of my roleplaying friends aren't oceans away, they are cities away which is bad enough. On the plus side we've found we can play pretty much any game that doesn't require miniatures (i.e anything that isn't DnD) perfectly well over something like mumble, using one of the many joint dice roller websites out there. Had a very enjoyable Mage game and the use of mumble and steam chat let me do things you can't do in a real life pnp, the best example being playing a scene out loud with one player, who was being brain washed, with the false information he would be passing onto the group whilst simultaneously typing out the real events over steam to each other.

Look into Roll20. Online cloudbased program, thats free to use and makes DnD perfectly possible!

Oh I have done. I don't really like DnD (I describe it as the worst rpg I'm willing to play) but I've contemplated using it
for something like Savage Worlds in which minis aren't needed for most fights, but they can add alot for big almost set piecey bits.

 

[Crimson_Dragoon]

Just run Shadowrun on Skype. That's what I'm doing with my friends and its working great.

Planescape told a better story (one that still stands as the best narrative in gaming)

Still obvious that Grey has never played Suikoden II or III.

Damn straight. Glad to see someone else on the same page as me.

 

[triggrhappy94]

Snip...
I still think the biggest problem TES faces is that it's kind of in a genre of it's own. It's less concerned with telling you a story and more intended to let you tell your own story. It wants you to be less concerned about stats and leveling and more with just doing what feels natural. It want's you to use Swords because you want to, not because you want to level your One Handed. It wants you complete that quest because your character would, not because you want the loot/xp.
...Snip

Wait, wait, wait! TES has stats? And a story?
I could have sworn it was a hiking sim.

OT:
I'm disappointed you guys didn't take more liberties with the usernames.
Where's the "Lt. Major Boobage", the "Phil Atio", or the "Human Sodom-Pede"?

 

[The Random One]

I don't have anyone to play RPGs with either, Grey. Do you want to play Shadowrun with me? I have never played it before, though, and from what I heard I might need to buy more dice. A lot more dice.

 

[Ryan Hughes]

Just run Shadowrun on Skype. That's what I'm doing with my friends and its working great.

Planescape told a better story (one that still stands as the best narrative in gaming)

Still obvious that Grey has never played Suikoden II or III.

Damn straight. Glad to see someone else on the same page as me.

Right on. Not that I have anything against Planescape: Torment, that is a great game in its own right, but just not quite as good.

If you want, join us over at the SRM to help bring the series back:
https://www.facebook.com/SuikodenRevival

 

[Breywood]

Maybe BG is lousy to make fun of because it doesn't pretend to be anything else than what it is. It lacks hype, pretentiousness, 4th wall-breaking jokes and irony. It simply is. Just like a chair, not much joke material in a chair.

The day shall come when Tiax will point and click!

So many memorable characters. Plenty of bad ones, but Jaheira's original appearance was hellishly more enjoyable than her Shadows of Amn incarnation, Tiax talking in third person, Minsc's obsession with fighting evil with as much gusto as possible, Xan's effort to be as depressed as possible, Xzar and Montaron's bickering *sigh*

Great times. Someone else mentioned it, it wasn't because it had cutting-edge visuals requiring a $600 upgrade to play, an awesome mechanics system and the best story ever. It did, however, have characters with good depth and excellent story pacing. It had great moments but didn't try to make an entire story out of them either. I don't think it would have mattered, I would have preferred Baldur's Gate over Shadows of Amn simply because the first didn't turn into a chore.

 

[The Madman]

Anyway, I guess I don't hold such a sterling impression of Baldur's Gate because I didn't grow up with it (or at least play it a decade ago), and by the time I finally tried getting into it it seemed so dated, slow, convoluted, and horrible to control that I couldn't even get out of the first room without being pissed off at the UI and the randomness of the AD&D combat rules. Same goes for Baldur's Gate 2. Spoiled or not by more modern games, they just haven't aged well at all.

How so? It's not like AD&D is terribly complex. 1D6 would mean one six sided dice roll while 2D4 would mean two rolls of a four sided dice. Rolling a 1 is bad, rolling a 20 is good. Bigger numbers mean more damage! Armour meanwhile is the reverse with lower number being better, so a 20 armour is bad, but 1 is good. Ideally with armour you'd want to get into the negatives, an armour of -10 for example is really good...

And really that's about it. You can safely ignore stuff like thaco and still play the game just fine, and most spells and abilities have straight forward effects; A fireball does so much damage in this much of a radius, sleep has a chance to put enemies to sleep, stoneskin makes enemies weapons not hurt while it last, etc. I've taught kids to play this series, it's not hard. While there's depth for those that want to tinker with the nuanced details of every character or encounter, so long as you've a grasp of the simple things it's still a blast to play.

Baldur's Gate 2's visuals have also aged quite well. There's a certain timeless quality to high resolution artwork, especially compared to the early 3D that were the norm when Baldur's Gate was released.

 

[shrekfan246]

Anyway, I guess I don't hold such a sterling impression of Baldur's Gate because I didn't grow up with it (or at least play it a decade ago), and by the time I finally tried getting into it it seemed so dated, slow, convoluted, and horrible to control that I couldn't even get out of the first room without being pissed off at the UI and the randomness of the AD&D combat rules. Same goes for Baldur's Gate 2. Spoiled or not by more modern games, they just haven't aged well at all.

How so? It's not like AD&D is terribly complex. 1D6 would mean one six sided dice roll while 2D4 would mean two rolls of a four sided dice. Rolling a 1 is bad, rolling a 20 is good. Bigger numbers mean more damage! Armour meanwhile is the reverse with lower number being better, so a 20 armour is bad, but 1 is good. Ideally with armour you'd want to get into the negatives, an armour of -10 for example is really good...

And really that's about it. You can safely ignore stuff like thaco and still play the game just fine, and most spells and abilities have straight forward effects; A fireball does so much damage in this much of a radius, sleep has a chance to put enemies to sleep, stoneskin makes enemies weapons not hurt while it last, etc. I've taught kids to play this series, it's not hard. While there's depth for those that want to tinker with the nuanced details of every character or encounter, so long as you've a grasp of the simple things it's still a blast to play.

Baldur's Gate 2's visuals have also aged quite well. There's a certain timeless quality to high resolution artwork, especially compared to the early 3D that were the norm when Baldur's Gate was released.

I get the rules. I never said they were complicated.

My problem is more with the implementation and the subsequent translation to video game format.

It's a subjective thing, but I don't like placing 75% of my potential combat effectiveness up to complete chance in a video game. AI routines aren't the same as a dice roll, even if it's the most accurate representation in the world. There's a certain level of RNG that I'm able to tolerate in my video games, and the D&D games tend to break that threshold.

It's not even so much the D&D rules in general I've got a problem with. I can play Knights of the Old Republic just fine, and if the combat weren't so gorram slow I'd love Neverwinter Nights and its sequel. But I can't get into the Infinity Engine games. The way they control combined with the slightly different, older AD&D rules and some of the worst UIs I've ever seen in video gaming just puts me off of them after half an hour. They feel stiff and unresponsive, the combat equally so, and really, having to rest after every fight at the beginning of the game just wasn't all that engaging to me. I'll readily admit I may have just sucked, but it's not like there was anything else I could do. Characters don't start with practically any abilities, positioning hardly seemed to matter at all, and even using weapons they were trained for still resulted in massive amounts of missing.

Though I suppose I should've clarified that by "convoluted", I was mostly referring to the abysmal UI. Seriously, even Diablo II has a better UI than the Baldur's Gate games, and Diablo II's UI is pretty horrible as well.

Maybe I could appreciate the games more if I had played them when I was younger, but trying to get into them now just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.