Baldurs Gate II, a console tards shocking discovery

[TheGrue]

Baldur's Gate is your secondary school girlfriend.

Oblivion is the partner that you're currently dating. She's hotter, smarter and more experienced. She's grown up and lost those adolescent complications.
But, the sense of passion and the wonder isn't quite the same as with that girl you dated during your GCSE's, and so your mind occassionally drifts back to the idea of that first love.

I married my secondary school girlfriend then, and I'm not interested in these vain, vapid, pretty young things that come about and act all mature. My first love has all the quirks and faults that make her perfect. I'd say meet up with that first love again, and after you get over the appearance thing you'll find that quick wit and amazing personality that you saw all those years ago.

Though I'm not saying that Oblivion is great for a ride....haha (Mounts! :O)

 

[sammyfreak]

I have now played the Tutorial and made a fresh restart with my friend as a fighting cleric type class. It definately is easier to understand the combat now, but i dont realy realy enjoy it. I shall valiantly continue my journey to se if i enjoy the story and playing with my friends is fun. But i think Fallout 2 is a much bigger temptress on the throne of "RPG oldies".

 

[TheGrue]

good for you! Great, you won't regret it. Just persevere.

Think of it this way, don't look at the the combat on screen per se, look at the little information box telling your to hit rolls and damage etc.
It may look boring, but later in the game when you buff yourself up you'll look at that box with wonder when you crit for 70 and totally gibb a large armored man.

Oh and when you come across Illithid... Dragons... the quests take unexpected turns.. believe me - you will enjoy the combat..

..or cry!

 

[runtheplacered]

"I have now played the Tutorial and made a fresh restart with my friend as a fighting cleric type class. "

Why are you playing it with your friend? Play it by yourself.. it's so much more fun. Diablo is a game to play with a friend... not baldur's gate.

Whenever I play an RPG with someone else, the storyline generally goes straight out the window, because I'm playing at someone elses pace (which is why it works in diablo to play multiplayer.. because.. what story?)

Taking the story out of Baldur's Gate is like taking the spine out of a human being.

 

[FaceInTheSand]

My first love has all the quirks and faults that make her perfect. I'd say meet up with that first love again, and after you get over the appearance thing you'll find that quick wit and amazing personality that you saw all those years ago.

Recently, I did take Baldurs Gate, out again; casually meeting up for some coffee and reliving the past like I was in some CRPG version of High Fidelity.

She'd actually ended the relationship, by refusing to work with my new graphics card, but I didn't hold it against her and we did patch things up, and she now looks better than ever.
We still shared the same interests, remembered the same in-jokes and the stories she used to tell hadn't dulled any. But, in the short time we were sitting together, I remembered why things soured.

She was overly complex and her idiosynchrasies were verging on neurosis. I could never understand why she couldn't communicate with me in simple English, and so our problems spiralled out of control. Every battle we had would take much longer than it needed too, unless I was prepared to change who I was completely and comply with what she thought I should be.
She would hold the fact that I was dual-class against me, and make everything exceptionally difficult, while for others she would gladly bend over backwards to please and reward. While she had nice friends with interesting stories, it wasn't enough to keep me enthralled anymore, and when she refused to work when I changed computers, we both moved on.

In the time between her and Oblivion, I loved Icewind Dale 2, Neverwinter Nights and Morrowind. The first two were similar to Baldur's Gate, and, although NWN was a bit of a shallow tart, I can say I had a lot more fun with them.
Morrowind, I thought, was my perfect partner and I still get nostalgic about her sometimes. She was very quirky and unique and allowed me to be whoever I wanted to be. But, despite the fact we understood each other so well, she was unreliable and far too demanding.

 

[TheGrue]

Recently, I did take Baldurs Gate, out again; casually meeting up for some coffee and reliving the past like I was in some CRPG version of High Fidelity.

...But, in the short time we were sitting together, I remembered why things soured.

You see I have to admit she has problems, but what I did, is while she was asleep - I had some crazy mad doctor "mod" her entire brain. Had some great games with her then, truly special.

However eventually the old girl couldn't handle all the crazy I put inside her head, and she fell apart.

So I ended up with her twin sisters, Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2. They keep me entertained.. mostly..

 

[Nerdfury]

I fail to understand why anyone would find it counter-intuitive.

Because, quite frankly, 2nd Ed AD&D is counterintuitive.

To Hit, calculations, for example. Armour class, an inherent property of the target, is actually used as a modifier to the attacker's roll, whereas the target difficulty to hit any target is a fixed inherent property of the attacker. This is exactly the opposite to what one would expect a randomised to hit calculation to be, hence counter-intuitive.

Likewise, saving throws are a mixed bag of saving against either the effect (like Death), or the specific origin of that effect (Wands).

Also, there's a mix of preference for big numbers (stats, thief skills), or small numbers (THAC0, Armour class), with no logical explanation for the switchover. Pick an end and stick with it!

I remember a noble, if doomed, attempt to dump the BG2 game content into the IWD2 engine, and update the whole thing to the far more sensible 3.5Ed game rules, but it was never really going to work with a game this size, because everything would need to be rebalanced.

.. So? Seems pretty simple to me.

 

[GloatingSwine]

.. So? Seems pretty simple to me.

Once you learn the system, it is.

Better RPG systems, like D20, don't require learning they work intuitively. Things work as you'd expect them to work. All dice rolls, for example, work the same. D20+Property of the character vs. Target number defined by the task. (D20 isn't exactly the best either, but it's better than the mess that was 2ed, especially for computer games where the expectation of a limited range of possible interactions helps hide it's worst deficiencies.)

 

[Nerdfury]

.. So? Seems pretty simple to me.

Once you learn the system, it is.

Better RPG systems, like D20, don't require learning they work intuitively. Things work as you'd expect them to work. All dice rolls, for example, work the same. D20+Property of the character vs. Target number defined by the task. (D20 isn't exactly the best either, but it's better than the mess that was 2ed, especially for computer games where the expectation of a limited range of possible interactions helps hide it's worst deficiencies.)

Uh, dude? Baldur's Gate I and II both use 'd20 rules.' Second Edition IS d20. Hence why the game is very simple to play.

 

[NeoFenrir]

.. So? Seems pretty simple to me.

Once you learn the system, it is.

Better RPG systems, like D20, don't require learning they work intuitively. Things work as you'd expect them to work. All dice rolls, for example, work the same. D20+Property of the character vs. Target number defined by the task. (D20 isn't exactly the best either, but it's better than the mess that was 2ed, especially for computer games where the expectation of a limited range of possible interactions helps hide it's worst deficiencies.)

Uh, dude? Baldur's Gate I and II both use 'd20 rules.' Second Edition IS d20. Hence why the game is very simple to play.

No, they don't. They're based on ADnD 2e rules, which was its own little system. 3rd edition (and 3.5) uses the d20 System (an actual system, used for many games other than DnD). Just because BG uses d20s doesn't mean it uses the d20 System.

 

[GloatingSwine]

There are significant differences between 2ed D&D and D20.

 

[misterk]

Hmm, I think I definitely need to get dungeon begone. On my umpteenth play through I gave up on the first dungeon, because, lets face it, it's dull. Other than the sheer densness of complexist within this games, there are lots of awkward things to this- the lack of space in everyones bag is of course a classic, and there are still too many random encounters for my money.

Still, it is damn good, and I really should have a go at killing a dragon by NOT talking to it first to lull it into a false sense of security (magic missile spam ftw)

 

[Knight Templar]

One point about the spells and not knowing which one to pick, you can get more later.
Anyway look above me, all that bitching, sigh. He didn't like the game so? It just says he did not give it time he said "console tard so what did you expect.


Edit- Sorry for not fixing it up when I posted but, meh I do have other people living with me.

 

[GordonFawx]

Sammy, sammy, sammy.

I think the majority of the people here have hit your nail on the head. You don't like RPGs. Seriously, you don't. Diablo is, well, not an RPG. I'm not sure what you call it but it isn't an RPG.

Baldur's gate has something that I lament these days; Value for money. It was a 200 hour (yes, 200 hours, not 4) for around 50$ (60 if you pre-ordered and got the collector's edition like I did) and was some of the most enthralling 200 hours of my life. It does, however, require 2 things to get started.

Patience and Baldur's Gate I

As you lack both of these things it's not entirely surprising that you've failed to enjoy the second game. It's like seeing Empire Strikes Back without seeing A New Hope, the plot makes no sense and it's counter-intuitive from the start until virtue 1 kicks in (patience).

For those of us who grew up on patient, well thought out games like Civilizations, or the first of the D&D games released by SSI in the early 90's and late 80's Baldur's gate was a great re-vitalizing force. It rewarded planning, foresight and, god forbid, reading the manual.

It also rewarded ingenuity; since not all problems were a game of rock, paper, scissors.

Or more like Rock these days, since scissors are haxing and paper is for n00bs >.>

 

[sammyfreak]

The idea that a fun RPG is the equivilant of a math lessons boogles me.

Maybe i should give civilization a bad review next? Just for the fun of it!

 

[The Madman]

Behold ye, the glorious Baldur's Gate 2 manual: 192 pages with in a small fonts worth of information as well as descriptions of almost every spell and ability in the game, and there are hundreds of em.

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/6048/manual2xh5.jpg

Ahhhh.... that there's quality. Not those stupid little leaflets you get nowadays as a manual. Back then buying a game off the shelf meant something, you got QUALITY stuff. Not like those lil' box games come in now where you're lucky if the game even has a 20 page booklet for info.

ANYWAY, yeah, give Baldur's Gate 2 a try. There's a reason it's considered a classic. It's a bit hard to get into but once you have you'll discover one of the most deep and fun rpg's to have ever been made.

 

[ilves7]

eh, although BG 2 was one of my all time favorite games to play, i can definitely see how playing it years later for the first time would not off-putting. I recently tried re-playing BG 1, which I loved, but found it rather boring and long-winded compared to when I played it the first time. Standards of what were great back then aren't necessarily the same as what they are now, and games and society might have advanced past that point to enjoy that specific style that they did before. Anyway, it is a great game for its time with a great storyline and gameplay, but I don't think anyone could argue its not getting out-dated.

 

[Eolirin]

You know, no matter how much anyone loves the BG series, and regardless of it's actual strengths, it's almost impossible to argue in it's favor from the position of elitism that the people supporting it on this thread are taking. "You *only* spent 4 hours trying to learn the game? You didn't read over a hundred pages of small type in the manual? Of course you're not going to like it!" isn't a valid defense. Those *are* problems. There's too much other stuff out there that's also fun that's got better pacing than dropping you in at the deep end and expecting you to figure out how to swim. It might not be as deep, but if the user cannot pick it up and not feel absolutely lost after half an hour, they're not very likely to come back. It doesn't make the person dumb to want more immediate gratification, it simply makes them too busy to be able to spend *hours* getting into something before it gets good.

BG2 unfortunately has the albatross of AD&D2nd hanging around it's neck too, as that system, while not the most complex, even in it's time, is still really hideously complex. The intricacies of 2nd Ed D&D are not something that are easy to understand without spending quite a bit of time either reading or having them explained. Beyond the mechanical wonkiness already mentioned, there are lots of weird balance quirks. Magic Missile, is for instance, far better than most offensive higher level spells, something that you really wouldn't expect from a level 1 spell. And because of the large number of level 1 slots you get, it's also extremely spammable.