Basic Logic

[CIA]

1)The Articles of confederation are a constitution
2)The U.S. Constitution is a Constitution
3)The Articles of Confederation are older than the U.S. Constitution
4)Both the Articles of Confederation and the U.S. Constitution are written down.
(all of the preceding statements have been verified by my professor, yet he still holds to his answer.)

Give that, is the following statement True or False?
The U.S. Constitution the oldest written Constitution.


I answered False and, according to my professor, I got it wrong.

I think it might be prudent that he take a logic course.

EDIT: I asked him if he considered the Articles of Confederation a Constitution. He said yes. I then asked if that meant I was right. He said no because the word "is" implies a constitution still in effect.
EDIT 2: I am not trying to prove that the Articles of confederation are the oldest constitution; I am trying to prove that the U.S. Constitution is not.

Has something like this ever happed to you? I need to know I'm not being singled out by the cosmos for some sort of Political Science themed torture.

 

[bodyklok]

1)The Articles of confederation are a constitution
2)The U.S. Constitution is a Constitution
3)The Articles of Confederation are older than the U.S. Constitution
4)Both the Articles of Confederation and the U.S. Constitution are written down.

Give that, is the following statement True or False?
The U.S. Constitution is the oldest written Constitution.


I answered False and, according to my professor, I got it wrong.

I think it might be prudent that he take a logic course.

Bashed on the information given, I think you should be right, however if I remember correctly (Which isn't very often) their are older civilisations who defined their institutions and laws on a document. I think the Athenians did.

So bearing that in mind we have a new conclusion:
The US constitution is the oldest remaining written constitution.

 

[CIA]

1)The Articles of confederation are a constitution
2)The U.S. Constitution is a Constitution
3)The Articles of Confederation are older than the U.S. Constitution
4)Both the Articles of Confederation and the U.S. Constitution are written down.

Give that, is the following statement True or False?
The U.S. Constitution is the oldest written Constitution.


I answered False and, according to my professor, I got it wrong.

I think it might be prudent that he take a logic course.

Bashed on the information given, I think you should be right, however if I remember correctly (Which isn't very often) their are older civilisations who defined their institutions and laws on a document. I think the Athenians did.

So bearing that in mind we have a new conclusion:
The US constitution is the oldest remaining written constitution.

The Articles of Confederation still exist, they just aren't in effect anymore. One of the originals is in a museum somewhere. Its not asking what the oldest constitution is, just if the U.S. one is the oldest.

 

[kurokotetsu]

With 1), 3) and 5), your answer seems right. The problem would be in the definition of Constitution, as even the Draconian Law may be considered a constitution depending on the definition. but your logic seems to hold.

 

[AvsJoe]

The Magna Carta is the oldest constitution. The end.

 

[CIA]

With 1), 3) and 5), your answer seems right. The problem would be in the definition of Constitution, as even the Draconian Law may be considered a constitution depending on the definition. but your logic seems to hold.

The Magna Carta is the oldest constitution. The end.

I only gave one example of an older Constitution because I didn't want to clutter up the page. One is sufficient to prove my point.

 

[Akai Shizuku]

In formal schooling, it does not matter whether you're actually right or wrong - all that matters to your mark is whether or not your answer conforms to your teacher's opinion.

 

[bodyklok]

1)The Articles of confederation are a constitution
2)The U.S. Constitution is a Constitution
3)The Articles of Confederation are older than the U.S. Constitution
4)Both the Articles of Confederation and the U.S. Constitution are written down.

Give that, is the following statement True or False?
The U.S. Constitution is the oldest written Constitution.


I answered False and, according to my professor, I got it wrong.

I think it might be prudent that he take a logic course.

Bashed on the information given, I think you should be right, however if I remember correctly (Which isn't very often) their are older civilisations who defined their institutions and laws on a document. I think the Athenians did.

So bearing that in mind we have a new conclusion:
The US constitution is the oldest remaining written constitution.

The Articles of Confederation still exist, they just aren't in effect anymore. One of the originals is in a museum somewhere. Its not asking what the oldest constitution is, just if the U.S. one is the oldest.

Well no I don't think it is, it's probably the oldest still in effect though.

 

[Kenjitsuka]

Bashed on the information given, I think you should be right, however if I remember correctly (Which isn't very often) their are older civilisations who defined their institutions and laws on a document. I think the Athenians did.

So bearing that in mind we have a new conclusion:
The US constitution is the oldest remaining written constitution.

That's right; based on the 4 points your logic may be sound, but there is a fifth one that is: there's other, OLDER constitutions than just the US ones. So your claim is wrong, because of that. Despite the logic being sound.

Also, your professor sounds like a douche to me...

 

[CIA]

Well no I don't think it is, it's probably the oldest still in effect though.

I won't contest that; I'll just tell you that AvsJoe says it the Manga Carta. I don't want to make pronouncements on what is a constitution and what isn't, so I'll let you be the judge.

(Also the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts is older than the U.S one.)

 

[kurokotetsu]

With 1), 3) and 5), your answer seems right. The problem would be in the definition of Constitution, as even the Draconian Law may be considered a constitution depending on the definition. but your logic seems to hold.

The Magna Carta is the oldest constitution. The end.

I only gave one example of an older Constitution because I didn't want to clutter up the page. One is sufficient to prove my point.

Indeed, a single counter example is sufficient. Still, I think that you need your prfessors definition, as it may have some fine points on teh definitio, which would make your answer true or false, as what you are considering as a constitution may not be the same for him.

 

[Lunar Shadow]

Bashed on the information given, I think you should be right, however if I remember correctly (Which isn't very often) their are older civilisations who defined their institutions and laws on a document. I think the Athenians did.

So bearing that in mind we have a new conclusion:
The US constitution is the oldest remaining written constitution.

That's right; based on the 4 points your logic may be sound, but there is a fifth one that is: there's other, OLDER constitutions than just the US ones. So your claim is wrong, because of that. Despite the logic being sound.

Also, your professor sounds like a douche to me...

HIs claim was that "The US constitution is the oldest: is False, which is correct. He just used the Articles of Confederation to prove it.

 

[CIA]

Bashed on the information given, I think you should be right, however if I remember correctly (Which isn't very often) their are older civilisations who defined their institutions and laws on a document. I think the Athenians did.

So bearing that in mind we have a new conclusion:
The US constitution is the oldest remaining written constitution.

That's right; based on the 4 points your logic may be sound, but there is a fifth one that is: there's other, OLDER constitutions than just the US ones. So your claim is wrong, because of that. Despite the logic being sound.

Also, your professor sounds like a douche to me...

Se post #6 for why that doesn't matter.

He is.

 

[Anacortian]

1)The Articles of confederation are a constitution
2)The U.S. Constitution is a Constitution
3)The Articles of Confederation are older than the U.S. Constitution
4)Both the Articles of Confederation and the U.S. Constitution are written down.

Give that, is the following statement True or False?
The U.S. Constitution is the oldest written Constitution.


I answered False and, according to my professor, I got it wrong.

I think it might be prudent that he take a logic course.

Bashed on the information given, I think you should be right, however if I remember correctly (Which isn't very often) their are older civilisations who defined their institutions and laws on a document. I think the Athenians did.

So bearing that in mind we have a new conclusion:
The US constitution is the oldest remaining written constitution.

What he said. Though I am not sure Athens had a constitution.

I think it is important to define "constitution." Commonwealth nations define it differently. A constitution is a document establishing (not merely reporting) the rules by which government shall operate made with the consent of those to be governed.

With that in mind, the Articles of Confederation are older, but some purists like to call that a treaty as opposed to a constitution. The Magna Carta could be called a constitutional treaty, but not a constitution. If you look, however, into history of trade and and craft guilds and corporations, you find a wealth of constitutions stretching back to before the printing press. Guilds and corporations govern people, and there charters are often established with a heavy hand from those to be governed. There you have your proto-constitutions.

 

[Nickolai77]

The Magna Carta is the oldest constitution. The end.

iffy claim... The Magna Carter cheifly concerned the rights and powers of the King and his various barons, mainly getting the King to recognise that he, and no other man was above the law. It was a landmark document, and laid down a fundemental foundation in the western concept of justice. However, it was not quite as wide- reaching as a consttution, which sets out to define and provide an overall foundation for a given country. The Magna Carta is a foundation stone, but not the entire foundation of what "England" is. England, or the rest of the UK, has not formal constitution, we just have a set of law and practises which has evolved over thounsands of years.

The closest thing the UK may get to a constitution is if we adopt the European Constitution...

 

[Anacortian]

The Magna Carta is the oldest constitution. The end.

The Magna Carta reported how government was to run. It did not establish, and it is not of greater authority than government. If government can disregard the Magna Carta by act, it is not a constitution. A constitution is placed over (not under nor beside) government.

To be blunt, a constitution is intrinsically impossible in a monarchy or anything approaching an autocracy. The Magna Carta was a treaty between the governing and the governed. Hence it can be called a constitutional treaty. The governing, however, could, can, and did prove their regard for it as nothing more than a treaty of debatable strength.

 

[tsb247]

I once had a professor that I had conclusively, methematically, and logically proven wrong. I confronted him about it, and all he could say was, "I have to see this. This will be interesting." When I presented my answer his response was, "Oh, but you read the question wrong." My reply was, "No, I did not. I used the exact approach that you outlined on my mpaper in red ink." He then responded by saying that, "Ok, I suppose I will give you the points because I can see that you have learned something." I still have that physics test somewhere...

That was the single most frustrating moment in my entire life. I filled up an entire chalkboard too!

Spoiler

 

[jboking]

Your teacher screwed you on a matter of semantics. Assuming the teacher isn't a complete fucking idiot, he should have realized that the US Constitution isn't the oldest written constitution, but it is the oldest one still in effect. Or rather, your definition of Constitution and his/her definition don't match up. In that case it could very well be your teachers fault if they never provided a definition of constitution.

 

[oppp7]

Have you talked to him about it?

 

[Stalk3rchief]

Well all logic points to it not being the oldest constitution.
Some teachers just don't make sense.