Batman and Robin

[twistedmic]

It had Robin. Thats a plus. Apparently you cant have Robin anymore without twisting him into...some cop with the GIVEN NAME of Robin? WTF?

I always assumed that it was a reference to the fact that when Batman dies (which he has in several arcs I believe) or disappears for a length of time Robin (usually Dick Grayson) becomes Batman, and it was saying that the cop, Robin, was going to become the new Batman.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I loved it as a kid, hated it as an edgy teen, and appreciate it's well meaning, hilarious awesome awfulness as an adult.

It's hilarful.

 

[Cette]

I've always just viewed it as a direct sequel to the Adam West Batman series. And viewed through that lens it's really damn fun.

Plus Schwarzenegger is a delight in it.

 

[KaraFang]

Personally, I think it comes down to:

A fan who enjoyed the 1960's show and unintentional homoerotic undertones = someone who will enjoy Batman and Robin/Batman Forever for the camp hilarity and modernised 1960's "BLAM, WHAKKO!" feeling/colour schemes those movies have.

A fan who came into era of Batman the animated series/Burtons darker batman = will not enjoy Batman for the 1960's feeling and certainly won't enjoy it for the film making.

Non fans - everyone will agree the actual acting and direction is god awful. Though you may chuckle at how stupid it all is.

There's a reason Nolans Dark Knight trilogy (while not being perfect) is still held up as being one of the best batman creations out there (Gravelly voice notwithstanding).

 

[Natemans]

It had Robin. Thats a plus. Apparently you cant have Robin anymore without twisting him into...some cop with the GIVEN NAME of Robin? WTF?

Dick Grayson has been Nightwing instead of Robin in the comics universe for... years now. Decades, even.

Besides, in a movie that considers itself to exist in some kind of universe at least parallel to the real world, a crime-fighting teenage sidekick for Bale-Batman would have been really dumb.

Robin, either Dick or one of the others, or Nightwing would all be better than Joseph Gordon Levitt's "Im Robin the cop" character.

I like JGL in Dark Knight Rises and his character is good, but yeah seriously screw that stupid fan wank reference.

 

[JUMBO PALACE]

It had Robin. Thats a plus. Apparently you cant have Robin anymore without twisting him into...some cop with the GIVEN NAME of Robin? WTF?

Dick Grayson has been Nightwing instead of Robin in the comics universe for... years now. Decades, even.

Besides, in a movie that considers itself to exist in some kind of universe at least parallel to the real world, a crime-fighting teenage sidekick for Bale-Batman would have been really dumb.

Robin, either Dick or one of the others, or Nightwing would all be better than Joseph Gordon Levitt's "Im Robin the cop" character.

I like JGL in Dark Knight Rises and his character is good, but yeah seriously screw that stupid fan wank reference.

Don't forget that he figures out who Batman is by using his Orphan Sense?

I think Batman and Robin has really benefitted from the passage of years. As other have said, people are now putting it in the perspective of it being a continuation of the Adam West series. As long as you know what you're getting yourself into I think it can still be enjoyable in a so-bad-it's-good kind of way. Plus it's kind of interesting that Clooney said in an interview that he played Batman gay. And if you look at things that way the whole movie makes a lot more sense.
https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/clooney-claims-his-batman-was-gay-barbara-walters-interviews-other-people/

 

[hermes]

Is it the worst? No, not by a long shot (thanks Superman 4 and Catwoman, you set the bar too high), but it is not a good movie either. Some people has started to a) react to the post-Nolan "everything we do is gritty, angsty and serious business" by clinching to everything with color like it was he second coming, or b) catch the movie up with the nostalgia glasses (the movie is 20 years old, after all), and remembered that they saw it when they weren't supposed to (the movie is PG13), which colors their take on it (which is natural, it colors my take on duds like Cool World). If you are one of the people that can find enjoyment out of it, sarcastically or otherwise, more power to you... However, the movie is bad.

It sure has a lot of cheese in it (at least, far more than expected), but what is there is inconsistent, unearned and just not very good. It is like asking for a burger and having some drops of cheap sauce in it. If you like the sauce, it is too little and random to savor it with the food; if you don't like it, is prevalent enough that the taste would hurt the whole meal.

 

[Kyrian007]

Well, I found BvS and Suicide Squad to be worse movies. And MoS was far more disappointing than B&R. But as much grief as I give the Snyderverse DC heroes... I've seen way worse movies. I think lowest on my personal list is "Monster Man." It is the only movie on my IMDB I have ranked at a 1 star. It's by the same moron that directed "Shoot 'em Up" which my IMDB ranking of is 2.

 

[Cycloptomese]

Check out this awesome drinking game. Watch Batman & Robin with a group of close friends. Drink every time there's a pun. Drink twice if the pun relates to ice or cold. You will get super fucked up.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Well, I found BvS and Suicide Squad to be worse movies. And MoS was far more disappointing than B&R. But as much grief as I give the Snyderverse DC heroes... I've seen way worse movies. I think lowest on my personal list is "Monster Man." It is the only movie on my IMDB I have ranked at a 1 star. It's by the same moron that directed "Shoot 'em Up" which my IMDB ranking of is 2.

I have read worse comics. The movies don't even come close.

 

[Natemans]

Well, I found BvS and Suicide Squad to be worse movies. And MoS was far more disappointing than B&R. But as much grief as I give the Snyderverse DC heroes... I've seen way worse movies. I think lowest on my personal list is "Monster Man." It is the only movie on my IMDB I have ranked at a 1 star. It's by the same moron that directed "Shoot 'em Up" which my IMDB ranking of is 2.

I have read worse comics. The movies don't even come close.[/quote. Actually I put the awful films on par with some of the worst comics

 

[Kyrian007]

Well, I found BvS and Suicide Squad to be worse movies. And MoS was far more disappointing than B&R. But as much grief as I give the Snyderverse DC heroes... I've seen way worse movies. I think lowest on my personal list is "Monster Man." It is the only movie on my IMDB I have ranked at a 1 star. It's by the same moron that directed "Shoot 'em Up" which my IMDB ranking of is 2.

I have read worse comics. The movies don't even come close.

Actually I put the awful films on par with some of the worst comics

Well if we are talking comics, that mid to late 90's "dark and edgy" craze that just KILLED comics produced some really terrible stories and whole comics. Basically some really amazing talent in the late 80's turned out a fantastic comic with a hard edge and some dark themes... and for the next decade teenies were screaming for "more mature and darker" content (mostly to "prove" that they were more mature and actually proving the complete opposite.) And the publishers responded, cranking up the "dark and brooding" in every comic (even where it was thematically inappropriate) and almost to an issue not realizing that what made Watchmen good wasn't its tone... it was a very well written story that just happened to be pretty gritty.

And then those same teenies found The Dark Knight Returns and catapulted it straight into "severely overrated" territory with all their new-found love for it. Then DC tried to kill Superman and the overhyped crapfest that turned out to be. Then a bunch of hacked-off writers and artists (most with pretty reasonable complaints) started their own company but instead of just making good comics, decided to jump on the grimdark train and started churning out mostly really dumb comics. And eventually, most teenagers grow out of that phase. Just ask me and every other ex 90's goth child.

Basically the comics industry spent most of a whole decade trying to learn the lesson that you can't replace good writing with faux "mature" content for teenagers. Wow Warner Brothers, talk about not learning from history. Chris Nolan makes some good Batman flicks and then you spend the next decade making exactly the same mistake.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Well, I found BvS and Suicide Squad to be worse movies. And MoS was far more disappointing than B&R. But as much grief as I give the Snyderverse DC heroes... I've seen way worse movies. I think lowest on my personal list is "Monster Man." It is the only movie on my IMDB I have ranked at a 1 star. It's by the same moron that directed "Shoot 'em Up" which my IMDB ranking of is 2.

I have read worse comics. The movies don't even come close.[/quote. Actually I put the awful films on par with some of the worst comics

I have never seen a movie that is on par with Dark Knight Strikes Again, and Spiderman One More Day and especially Act of God.

 

[Cicada 5]

Well, I found BvS and Suicide Squad to be worse movies. And MoS was far more disappointing than B&R. But as much grief as I give the Snyderverse DC heroes... I've seen way worse movies. I think lowest on my personal list is "Monster Man." It is the only movie on my IMDB I have ranked at a 1 star. It's by the same moron that directed "Shoot 'em Up" which my IMDB ranking of is 2.

I have read worse comics. The movies don't even come close.

Actually I put the awful films on par with some of the worst comics

Well if we are talking comics, that mid to late 90's "dark and edgy" craze that just KILLED comics produced some really terrible stories and whole comics. Basically some really amazing talent in the late 80's turned out a fantastic comic with a hard edge and some dark themes... and for the next decade teenies were screaming for "more mature and darker" content (mostly to "prove" that they were more mature and actually proving the complete opposite.) And the publishers responded, cranking up the "dark and brooding" in every comic (even where it was thematically inappropriate) and almost to an issue not realizing that what made Watchmen good wasn't its tone... it was a very well written story that just happened to be pretty gritty.

And then those same teenies found The Dark Knight Returns and catapulted it straight into "severely overrated" territory with all their new-found love for it. Then DC tried to kill Superman and the overhyped crapfest that turned out to be. Then a bunch of hacked-off writers and artists (most with pretty reasonable complaints) started their own company but instead of just making good comics, decided to jump on the grimdark train and started churning out mostly really dumb comics. And eventually, most teenagers grow out of that phase. Just ask me and every other ex 90's goth child.

Basically the comics industry spent most of a whole decade trying to learn the lesson that you can't replace good writing with faux "mature" content for teenagers. Wow Warner Brothers, talk about not learning from history. Chris Nolan makes some good Batman flicks and then you spend the next decade making exactly the same mistake.

Darker and edgier comics did not kill comics. The speculator boom did that.

Uh, seeing as how they still made money and didn't crash any markets, I'm guessing they didn't make the same mistakes.

 

[Kenbo Slice]

Well, I found BvS and Suicide Squad to be worse movies. And MoS was far more disappointing than B&R. But as much grief as I give the Snyderverse DC heroes... I've seen way worse movies. I think lowest on my personal list is "Monster Man." It is the only movie on my IMDB I have ranked at a 1 star. It's by the same moron that directed "Shoot 'em Up" which my IMDB ranking of is 2.

I have read worse comics. The movies don't even come close.[/quote. Actually I put the awful films on par with some of the worst comics

I have never seen a movie that is on par with Dark Knight Strikes Again, and Spiderman One More Day and especially Act of God.

Steel, Batman V Superman, Suicide Squad, X-Men Origins: Wolverine, Judge Dredd (the one with Stallone), Superman IV, Supergirl, Catwoman, All three Fantastic 4 movies, Spawn, Daredevil, Spider-Man 3, The Amazing Spider-Man series, the 90's Captain America movie, Ghost Rider 1 and 2, The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Elektra...are all up there with the worst comics.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Well, I found BvS and Suicide Squad to be worse movies. And MoS was far more disappointing than B&R. But as much grief as I give the Snyderverse DC heroes... I've seen way worse movies. I think lowest on my personal list is "Monster Man." It is the only movie on my IMDB I have ranked at a 1 star. It's by the same moron that directed "Shoot 'em Up" which my IMDB ranking of is 2.

I have read worse comics. The movies don't even come close.[/quote. Actually I put the awful films on par with some of the worst comics

I have never seen a movie that is on par with Dark Knight Strikes Again, and Spiderman One More Day and especially Act of God.

Steel, Batman V Superman, Suicide Squad, X-Men Origins: Wolverine, Judge Dredd (the one with Stallone), Superman IV, Supergirl, Catwoman, All three Fantastic 4 movies, Spawn, Daredevil, Spider-Man 3, The Amazing Spider-Man series, the 90's Captain America movie, Ghost Rider 1 and 2, The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Elektra...are all up there with the worst comics.

Steel was harmless 90s cheese. Batman v Superman was just the victim of over expectations, Though I never seen it because I don't care Suicide Squad was mismanaged, X-Man Origins: Wolverine I have no idea why people make it out to be that god awful I thought it was just average, Spawn was meh, Daredevil wasn't that bad, I thought Spiderman 3 was utterly awful, but I grew warm to it and I have seen One More Day, The Amazing Spiderman series wasn't that great, but still miles preferable than One More Day, again 90s cheese with Captain America, Ghost Rider 1 was meh, never seen the second one or League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, or Elektra.

But most of these movies don't offend me that much. Heck I rank Iron Man 1 and 2 and the The Increadibl Hulk 2008 as equally as any of these movies.

 

[Natemans]

Well, I found BvS and Suicide Squad to be worse movies. And MoS was far more disappointing than B&R. But as much grief as I give the Snyderverse DC heroes... I've seen way worse movies. I think lowest on my personal list is "Monster Man." It is the only movie on my IMDB I have ranked at a 1 star. It's by the same moron that directed "Shoot 'em Up" which my IMDB ranking of is 2.

I have read worse comics. The movies don't even come close.[/quote. Actually I put the awful films on par with some of the worst comics

I have never seen a movie that is on par with Dark Knight Strikes Again, and Spiderman One More Day and especially Act of God.

Steel, Batman V Superman, Suicide Squad, X-Men Origins: Wolverine, Judge Dredd (the one with Stallone), Superman IV, Supergirl, Catwoman, All three Fantastic 4 movies, Spawn, Daredevil, Spider-Man 3, The Amazing Spider-Man series, the 90's Captain America movie, Ghost Rider 1 and 2, The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Elektra...are all up there with the worst comics.

Steel was harmless 90s cheese. Batman v Superman was just the victim of over expectations, Though I never seen it because I don't care Suicide Squad was mismanaged, X-Man Origins: Wolverine I have no idea why people make it out to be that god awful I thought it was just average, Spawn was meh, Daredevil wasn't that bad, I thought Spiderman 3 was utterly awful, but I grew warm to it and I have seen One More Day, The Amazing Spiderman series wasn't that great, but still miles preferable than One More Day, again 90s cheese with Captain America, Ghost Rider 1 was meh, never seen the second one or League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, or Elektra.

But most of these movies don't offend me that much. Heck I rank Iron Man 1 and 2 and the The Increadibl Hulk 2008 as equally as any of these movies.

Dude, I would put the worst of superhero comics on par with the worst of superhero films. Also I didn't think Spider-Man 3, Daredevil and Fantastic Four 2005 were the worst superhero films ever. Spider-Man 3 is bad still, but I wouldn't think its one of the worst. Plus I gotta ask why is it every time we bring up superhero films, you have to compare to "its not as awful as the comics" argument? Yes, the comics are awful, but even I would put the superhero films that are the worst on par with them. I don't find BvS much of a problem with over expectations. More of completely wrong headed not just from a storytelling perspective, but even a filmmaking perspective. Then again I don't wanna debate this again.

 

[Natemans]

Well, I found BvS and Suicide Squad to be worse movies. And MoS was far more disappointing than B&R. But as much grief as I give the Snyderverse DC heroes... I've seen way worse movies. I think lowest on my personal list is "Monster Man." It is the only movie on my IMDB I have ranked at a 1 star. It's by the same moron that directed "Shoot 'em Up" which my IMDB ranking of is 2.

I have read worse comics. The movies don't even come close.

Actually I put the awful films on par with some of the worst comics

Well if we are talking comics, that mid to late 90's "dark and edgy" craze that just KILLED comics produced some really terrible stories and whole comics. Basically some really amazing talent in the late 80's turned out a fantastic comic with a hard edge and some dark themes... and for the next decade teenies were screaming for "more mature and darker" content (mostly to "prove" that they were more mature and actually proving the complete opposite.) And the publishers responded, cranking up the "dark and brooding" in every comic (even where it was thematically inappropriate) and almost to an issue not realizing that what made Watchmen good wasn't its tone... it was a very well written story that just happened to be pretty gritty.

And then those same teenies found The Dark Knight Returns and catapulted it straight into "severely overrated" territory with all their new-found love for it. Then DC tried to kill Superman and the overhyped crapfest that turned out to be. Then a bunch of hacked-off writers and artists (most with pretty reasonable complaints) started their own company but instead of just making good comics, decided to jump on the grimdark train and started churning out mostly really dumb comics. And eventually, most teenagers grow out of that phase. Just ask me and every other ex 90's goth child.

Basically the comics industry spent most of a whole decade trying to learn the lesson that you can't replace good writing with faux "mature" content for teenagers. Wow Warner Brothers, talk about not learning from history. Chris Nolan makes some good Batman flicks and then you spend the next decade making exactly the same mistake.

^ This

 

[Natemans]

Well, I found BvS and Suicide Squad to be worse movies. And MoS was far more disappointing than B&R. But as much grief as I give the Snyderverse DC heroes... I've seen way worse movies. I think lowest on my personal list is "Monster Man." It is the only movie on my IMDB I have ranked at a 1 star. It's by the same moron that directed "Shoot 'em Up" which my IMDB ranking of is 2.

I have read worse comics. The movies don't even come close.

Actually I put the awful films on par with some of the worst comics

Well if we are talking comics, that mid to late 90's "dark and edgy" craze that just KILLED comics produced some really terrible stories and whole comics. Basically some really amazing talent in the late 80's turned out a fantastic comic with a hard edge and some dark themes... and for the next decade teenies were screaming for "more mature and darker" content (mostly to "prove" that they were more mature and actually proving the complete opposite.) And the publishers responded, cranking up the "dark and brooding" in every comic (even where it was thematically inappropriate) and almost to an issue not realizing that what made Watchmen good wasn't its tone... it was a very well written story that just happened to be pretty gritty.

And then those same teenies found The Dark Knight Returns and catapulted it straight into "severely overrated" territory with all their new-found love for it. Then DC tried to kill Superman and the overhyped crapfest that turned out to be. Then a bunch of hacked-off writers and artists (most with pretty reasonable complaints) started their own company but instead of just making good comics, decided to jump on the grimdark train and started churning out mostly really dumb comics. And eventually, most teenagers grow out of that phase. Just ask me and every other ex 90's goth child.

Basically the comics industry spent most of a whole decade trying to learn the lesson that you can't replace good writing with faux "mature" content for teenagers. Wow Warner Brothers, talk about not learning from history. Chris Nolan makes some good Batman flicks and then you spend the next decade making exactly the same mistake.

Darker and edgier comics did not kill comics. The speculator boom did that.

Uh, seeing as how they still made money and didn't crash any markets, I'm guessing they didn't make the same mistakes.

We're talking quality wise in terms of the films and the comics. Not the goddamn money intake.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Well, I found BvS and Suicide Squad to be worse movies. And MoS was far more disappointing than B&R. But as much grief as I give the Snyderverse DC heroes... I've seen way worse movies. I think lowest on my personal list is "Monster Man." It is the only movie on my IMDB I have ranked at a 1 star. It's by the same moron that directed "Shoot 'em Up" which my IMDB ranking of is 2.

I have read worse comics. The movies don't even come close.[/quote. Actually I put the awful films on par with some of the worst comics

I have never seen a movie that is on par with Dark Knight Strikes Again, and Spiderman One More Day and especially Act of God.

Steel, Batman V Superman, Suicide Squad, X-Men Origins: Wolverine, Judge Dredd (the one with Stallone), Superman IV, Supergirl, Catwoman, All three Fantastic 4 movies, Spawn, Daredevil, Spider-Man 3, The Amazing Spider-Man series, the 90's Captain America movie, Ghost Rider 1 and 2, The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Elektra...are all up there with the worst comics.

Steel was harmless 90s cheese. Batman v Superman was just the victim of over expectations, Though I never seen it because I don't care Suicide Squad was mismanaged, X-Man Origins: Wolverine I have no idea why people make it out to be that god awful I thought it was just average, Spawn was meh, Daredevil wasn't that bad, I thought Spiderman 3 was utterly awful, but I grew warm to it and I have seen One More Day, The Amazing Spiderman series wasn't that great, but still miles preferable than One More Day, again 90s cheese with Captain America, Ghost Rider 1 was meh, never seen the second one or League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, or Elektra.

But most of these movies don't offend me that much. Heck I rank Iron Man 1 and 2 and the The Increadibl Hulk 2008 as equally as any of these movies.

Dude, I would put the worst of superhero comics on par with the worst of superhero films. Also I didn't think Spider-Man 3, Daredevil and Fantastic Four 2005 were the worst superhero films ever. Spider-Man 3 is bad still, but I wouldn't think its one of the worst. Plus I gotta ask why is it every time we bring up superhero films, you have to compare to "its not as awful as the comics" argument? Yes, the comics are awful, but even I would put the superhero films that are the worst on par with them. I don't find BvS much of a problem with over expectations. More of completely wrong headed not just from a storytelling perspective, but even a filmmaking perspective. Then again I don't wanna debate this again.

Because seeing how such writing, and especially dialoge writing, comic books have gotten away with it just comes off as worse to me, I just think there is absolutely less quality control in Comic Books than Movies because of the revolving door of writers.

And don't get me started when Comic Book writers get political in their books. Some of which can be so utterly pretentious.

And sometimes they just don't give a fuck like Superman At Earth's End, like WHY DID HITLER HAD TO BE IN THIS STORY, WHY SUPERMAN SO CONCERNED WITH GOTHAM CITY AND BATMAN ABOVE HIS OWN HOME AND FAMILY?!

PS Regarding Spiderman 3. I think what would fix that movie is if they remove Sandman. He was an extraneous character that brought up a story arc that should have ended in the first movie "Who killed Uncle Ben?"