Batman and Robin

[sXeth]

I honestly don't think it was the worst superhero movie ever. After all underneath all the goofiness there is actually a decent character arc for Bruce and Dick's characters. I think the biggest problem is that it's meant to follow on from the Tim Burton movies which were completely different in tone.

Yeah, while they were billed as sequels, it's better off to just separate Forever/Robin as a separate series.

There'd still be glaring issues (Like the villains across both being bizarrely off-character, and the complete neglect of Two Faces storyline), but it wouldn't seem like they just bats**t crazy for no apparent reason.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I honestly don't think it was the worst superhero movie ever. After all underneath all the goofiness there is actually a decent character arc for Bruce and Dick's characters. I think the biggest problem is that it's meant to follow on from the Tim Burton movies which were completely different in tone.

Yeah, while they were billed as sequels, it's better off to just separate Forever/Robin as a separate series.

There'd still be glaring issues (Like the villains across both being bizarrely off-character, and the complete neglect of Two Faces storyline), but it wouldn't seem like they just bats**t crazy for no apparent reason.

There were other problems too, like how Gotham City looked completely different in Batman and Robyn than it did in Forever. And of course it looked completely different in both than in the Tim Burton movies. So apparently Gotham City was completely torn down and rebuilt between movies.

 

[Cicada 5]

Well, I found BvS and Suicide Squad to be worse movies. And MoS was far more disappointing than B&R. But as much grief as I give the Snyderverse DC heroes... I've seen way worse movies. I think lowest on my personal list is "Monster Man." It is the only movie on my IMDB I have ranked at a 1 star. It's by the same moron that directed "Shoot 'em Up" which my IMDB ranking of is 2.

I have read worse comics. The movies don't even come close.

Actually I put the awful films on par with some of the worst comics

Well if we are talking comics, that mid to late 90's "dark and edgy" craze that just KILLED comics produced some really terrible stories and whole comics. Basically some really amazing talent in the late 80's turned out a fantastic comic with a hard edge and some dark themes... and for the next decade teenies were screaming for "more mature and darker" content (mostly to "prove" that they were more mature and actually proving the complete opposite.) And the publishers responded, cranking up the "dark and brooding" in every comic (even where it was thematically inappropriate) and almost to an issue not realizing that what made Watchmen good wasn't its tone... it was a very well written story that just happened to be pretty gritty.

And then those same teenies found The Dark Knight Returns and catapulted it straight into "severely overrated" territory with all their new-found love for it. Then DC tried to kill Superman and the overhyped crapfest that turned out to be. Then a bunch of hacked-off writers and artists (most with pretty reasonable complaints) started their own company but instead of just making good comics, decided to jump on the grimdark train and started churning out mostly really dumb comics. And eventually, most teenagers grow out of that phase. Just ask me and every other ex 90's goth child.

Basically the comics industry spent most of a whole decade trying to learn the lesson that you can't replace good writing with faux "mature" content for teenagers. Wow Warner Brothers, talk about not learning from history. Chris Nolan makes some good Batman flicks and then you spend the next decade making exactly the same mistake.

Darker and edgier comics did not kill comics. The speculator boom did that.

Uh, seeing as how they still made money and didn't crash any markets, I'm guessing they didn't make the same mistakes.

We're talking quality wise in terms of the films and the comics. Not the goddamn money intake.

Quality wise the 90s were no more worse than any other era of comics. Cass Cain, Tim Drake's Robin series, Hellboy, Ennis' Hitman and many others came out during that time. Yes there were crappy books. Just like there were crappy books in the 50s, 60, 70s etc. And I'll take the worst of the 90s over garbage like Identity Crisis (2004), Cry for Justice (2009) Graduation Day (2003), One More Day (2008), Civil War (2006) and Avengers vs X-Men (2012).

The DCEU movies are not hated by everybody despite the Internet echo chamber and the criticism didn't stop people liking Civil War (which I find overrated and immensely offensive), Guardians 2 and Wonder Woman. So yeah, nothing was ruined. Comic book fans are the biggest drama queens on the planet at times

 

[Cicada 5]

Well, I found BvS and Suicide Squad to be worse movies. And MoS was far more disappointing than B&R. But as much grief as I give the Snyderverse DC heroes... I've seen way worse movies. I think lowest on my personal list is "Monster Man." It is the only movie on my IMDB I have ranked at a 1 star. It's by the same moron that directed "Shoot 'em Up" which my IMDB ranking of is 2.

I have read worse comics. The movies don't even come close.[/quote. Actually I put the awful films on par with some of the worst comics

I have never seen a movie that is on par with Dark Knight Strikes Again, and Spiderman One More Day and especially Act of God.

Steel, Batman V Superman, Suicide Squad, X-Men Origins: Wolverine, Judge Dredd (the one with Stallone), Superman IV, Supergirl, Catwoman, All three Fantastic 4 movies, Spawn, Daredevil, Spider-Man 3, The Amazing Spider-Man series, the 90's Captain America movie, Ghost Rider 1 and 2, The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Elektra...are all up there with the worst comics.

Steel was harmless 90s cheese. Batman v Superman was just the victim of over expectations, Though I never seen it because I don't care Suicide Squad was mismanaged, X-Man Origins: Wolverine I have no idea why people make it out to be that god awful I thought it was just average, Spawn was meh, Daredevil wasn't that bad, I thought Spiderman 3 was utterly awful, but I grew warm to it and I have seen One More Day, The Amazing Spiderman series wasn't that great, but still miles preferable than One More Day, again 90s cheese with Captain America, Ghost Rider 1 was meh, never seen the second one or League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, or Elektra.

But most of these movies don't offend me that much. Heck I rank Iron Man 1 and 2 and the The Increadibl Hulk 2008 as equally as any of these movies.

Dude, I would put the worst of superhero comics on par with the worst of superhero films. Also I didn't think Spider-Man 3, Daredevil and Fantastic Four 2005 were the worst superhero films ever. Spider-Man 3 is bad still, but I wouldn't think its one of the worst. Plus I gotta ask why is it every time we bring up superhero films, you have to compare to "its not as awful as the comics" argument? Yes, the comics are awful, but even I would put the superhero films that are the worst on par with them. I don't find BvS much of a problem with over expectations. More of completely wrong headed not just from a storytelling perspective, but even a filmmaking perspective. Then again I don't wanna debate this again.

Because seeing how such writing, and especially dialoge writing, comic books have gotten away with it just comes off as worse to me, I just think there is absolutely less quality control in Comic Books than Movies because of the revolving door of writers.

And don't get me started when Comic Book writers get political in their books. Some of which can be so utterly pretentious.

And sometimes they just don't give a fuck like Superman At Earth's End, like WHY DID HITLER HAD TO BE IN THIS STORY, WHY SUPERMAN SO CONCERNED WITH GOTHAM CITY AND BATMAN ABOVE HIS OWN HOME AND FAMILY?!

PS Regarding Spiderman 3. I think what would fix that movie is if they remove Sandman. He was an extraneous character that brought up a story arc that should have ended in the first movie "Who killed Uncle Ben?"

I'd have removed Venom who had no reason to be in the movie other than because the studio forced Raimi to use him

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Well, I found BvS and Suicide Squad to be worse movies. And MoS was far more disappointing than B&R. But as much grief as I give the Snyderverse DC heroes... I've seen way worse movies. I think lowest on my personal list is "Monster Man." It is the only movie on my IMDB I have ranked at a 1 star. It's by the same moron that directed "Shoot 'em Up" which my IMDB ranking of is 2.

I have read worse comics. The movies don't even come close.[/quote. Actually I put the awful films on par with some of the worst comics

I have never seen a movie that is on par with Dark Knight Strikes Again, and Spiderman One More Day and especially Act of God.

Steel, Batman V Superman, Suicide Squad, X-Men Origins: Wolverine, Judge Dredd (the one with Stallone), Superman IV, Supergirl, Catwoman, All three Fantastic 4 movies, Spawn, Daredevil, Spider-Man 3, The Amazing Spider-Man series, the 90's Captain America movie, Ghost Rider 1 and 2, The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Elektra...are all up there with the worst comics.

Steel was harmless 90s cheese. Batman v Superman was just the victim of over expectations, Though I never seen it because I don't care Suicide Squad was mismanaged, X-Man Origins: Wolverine I have no idea why people make it out to be that god awful I thought it was just average, Spawn was meh, Daredevil wasn't that bad, I thought Spiderman 3 was utterly awful, but I grew warm to it and I have seen One More Day, The Amazing Spiderman series wasn't that great, but still miles preferable than One More Day, again 90s cheese with Captain America, Ghost Rider 1 was meh, never seen the second one or League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, or Elektra.

But most of these movies don't offend me that much. Heck I rank Iron Man 1 and 2 and the The Increadibl Hulk 2008 as equally as any of these movies.

Dude, I would put the worst of superhero comics on par with the worst of superhero films. Also I didn't think Spider-Man 3, Daredevil and Fantastic Four 2005 were the worst superhero films ever. Spider-Man 3 is bad still, but I wouldn't think its one of the worst. Plus I gotta ask why is it every time we bring up superhero films, you have to compare to "its not as awful as the comics" argument? Yes, the comics are awful, but even I would put the superhero films that are the worst on par with them. I don't find BvS much of a problem with over expectations. More of completely wrong headed not just from a storytelling perspective, but even a filmmaking perspective. Then again I don't wanna debate this again.

Because seeing how such writing, and especially dialoge writing, comic books have gotten away with it just comes off as worse to me, I just think there is absolutely less quality control in Comic Books than Movies because of the revolving door of writers.

And don't get me started when Comic Book writers get political in their books. Some of which can be so utterly pretentious.

And sometimes they just don't give a fuck like Superman At Earth's End, like WHY DID HITLER HAD TO BE IN THIS STORY, WHY SUPERMAN SO CONCERNED WITH GOTHAM CITY AND BATMAN ABOVE HIS OWN HOME AND FAMILY?!

PS Regarding Spiderman 3. I think what would fix that movie is if they remove Sandman. He was an extraneous character that brought up a story arc that should have ended in the first movie "Who killed Uncle Ben?"

I'd have removed Venom who had no reason to be in the movie other than because the studio forced Raimi to use him

So Sandman and the whole plot arc of who really killed Uncle Ben deserved to be there than Venom, one of Spiderman's arguably most powerful and number 1 villain over Green Goblin?

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

So Sandman and the whole plot arc of who really killed Uncle Ben deserved to be there than Venom, one of Spiderman's arguably most powerful and number 1 villain over Green Goblin?

I'd say, yes. Venom being the more prominent/popular villain doesn't mean much when nothing is done with him.

He's in Spider-Man 3 for all of maybe 10 minutes after Eddie Brock's badly rushed arc. The Sandman arc isn't great either, but it's at least got a bit more development. Badly done as it is, Harry's Goblin arc has more development. Venom is just one more addition to a movie that already had 3 major plotlines for a total of 4 (Black Suit Spidey, Sandman/Uncle Ben's killer, Green Goblin Harry and finally Venom).

They could've picked any two out of these four[footnote]Except Venom, who can only reasonably be combined with Black Suit Spidey[/footnote] and maybe ended up with something more decent, but nope, producers had to cram in all the things. And the movie suffered for it.