Battlefield 3's Pre-Order Firepower Upsets Gamers

[Harbinger_]

I'm sorry but I'm not even close to surprised that EA is doing something like this. To me it's not really a big deal because I play alot of games where my opponents have an edge as is.

 

[Smooth Operator]

What's worse is that DICE has been making online multiplayer shooters for years, so you'd think it would know how unbalancing this bonus would be.

I'll go out on a limb here and say that was someone elses idea... maybe some publisher of demonic descent beating them into submission.

And people are actually complaining on the EA forums, have they learned nothing, EA is simply turning that thread into a user ban list

 

[Ramare]

They give you the ability to get some extra firepower; yet, the people are complaining.

Does no one remember the pre-order bonuses for Bad Company 2?
You got a submachinegun, and a pistol. Don't seem, like game-changers, right? Wrong. The SMG was pretty great, not that good (Unless you fire exclusively from the hip (Like a wannabe mobster!), an equip magnum rounds. Then, all of a sudden, it becomes a weapon effective at SMG range, with SMG fire rate, and assault rifle damage, and an instant kill at shotgun range.), but the pistol? Two-hit kill, no fire cap, maximum accuracy. I wasn't around at that time, thank the Lord, but I still have to deal with it in it's nerfed state, which is still fast firing, relatively low recoil, seven shots, and great accuracy. Oh, and still two shots to kill. Yeah...

Actually, no. They were like that for two weeks until dice absolutely nerfed the shit out of both. And after that, they werent better in the slightest. Fast firing, low recoil, two hit kill? Well what about the 1911?

Well, while I'm pretty sure they were both fucked up when they were first usable, I'm talking about them in their current state. The 1911 still has decent accuracy[footnote]I've found it to be reliably accurate up to around 120 meters, but I've gotten kills up to 200 meters away. It is also great for CQBs, because the hip fire crosshair doesn't get bigger, no matter what you do[footnote]And by that, I mean moving, running, jumping, para-trooping, etc. Not firing.[/footnote]; and it's rather small to begin with.[/footnote], still a two-shot kill[footnote]Assuming you're using mags. If not, it's more likely to be a three hit kill.[/footnote], still a functional firing rate[footnote]Not videogame pistol tap-fast firing, not a noticeable delay, but normal, realistic believable trigger pull speed.[/footnote], and everyone who uses the gun, especially snipers[footnote]Seriously, fuck the Colt snipers. Want to think you're "leet"? Learn to take down an entire squad of assaults and medics with one clip of a 92FS. I can. In fact, I once dodged dodged a Carl G. rocket, sniped a sniper, killed the engineer who fired the rocket, and then killed their medic, all while using the simple starter pistol, from about 70 meters, in building to building combat.[/footnote], are all dicks.

And the stuff I said about equipping mags, and gunning down Russians in Fictionesia, like some kind of Wasteland Mobster, with Tommy the Gun; was done using the current version, about three weeks ago, actually. It seems to be completely ineffective the minute you aim down sights, but when you fire from the hip, especially with mags[footnote]Yet, not with SMG marksman training. Weird.[/footnote], it'll kill enemies reliably, in about four hits, rather quickly, up to about 50 meters. Since it's a SMG, it doesn't really need to be effective past that point. It's like a PDW alternative to a shotgun. The MP-4-12 can be used for longer range targets, with it's magnum accuracy.

 

[Ramare]

meh with my experiance with the recent Battlefield games is that one weapon or tool will never win the game. the most important thing in battlefield is knowing what class and equipment to use at the right time. If they want to spend more money for it let them. it's not as though good players should be affected by it at all.

BTW armour piercing shotgun rounds? what kind of maniac is going to go up to a vehicle with a shotgun?

I would. Might be able to wreck lightly armored transport vehicles with it. But, who said that armor piercing means VS. vehicles? Could be that now we can actually customize our soldiers; or at the very least choose how much armor they're wearing. Maybe now you can go into combat decked out in full riot gear, or Dragonskin Tactical, and thus AP rounds will be available.

 

[Ramare]

They give you the ability to get some extra firepower; yet, the people are complaining.

Does no one remember the pre-order bonuses for Bad Company 2?
You got a submachinegun, and a pistol. Don't seem, like game-changers, right? Wrong. The SMG was pretty great, not that good (Unless you fire exclusively from the hip (Like a wannabe mobster!), an equip magnum rounds. Then, all of a sudden, it becomes a weapon effective at SMG range, with SMG fire rate, and assault rifle damage, and an instant kill at shotgun range.), but the pistol? Two-hit kill, no fire cap, maximum accuracy. I wasn't around at that time, thank the Lord, but I still have to deal with it in it's nerfed state, which is still fast firing, relatively low recoil, seven shots, and great accuracy. Oh, and still two shots to kill. Yeah...

Actually, no. They were like that for two weeks until dice absolutely nerfed the shit out of both. And after that, they werent better in the slightest. Fast firing, low recoil, two hit kill? Well what about the 1911?

Well, while I'm pretty sure they were both fucked up when they were first usable, I'm talking about them in their current state. The 1911 still has decent accuracy[footnote]I've found it to be reliably accurate up to around 120 meters, but I've gotten kills up to 200 meters away. It is also great for CQBs, because the hip fire crosshair doesn't get bigger, no matter what you do[footnote]And by that, I mean moving, running, jumping, para-trooping, etc. Not firing.[/footnote]; and it's rather small to begin with.[/footnote], still a two-shot kill[footnote]Assuming you're using mags. If not, it's more likely to be a three hit kill.[/footnote], still a functional firing rate[footnote]Not videogame pistol tap-fast firing, not a noticeable delay, but normal, realistic believable trigger pull speed.[/footnote], and everyone who uses the gun, especially snipers[footnote]Seriously, fuck the Colt snipers. Want to think you're "leet"? Learn to take down an entire squad of assaults and medics with one clip of a 92FS. I can. In fact, I once dodged dodged a Carl G. rocket, sniped a sniper, killed the engineer who fired the rocket, and then killed their medic, all while using the simple starter pistol, from about 70 meters, in building to building combat.[/footnote], are all dicks.

And the stuff I said about equipping mags, and gunning down Russians in Fictionesia, like some kind of Wasteland Mobster, with Tommy the Gun; was done using the current version, about three weeks ago, actually. It seems to be completely ineffective the minute you aim down sights, but when you fire from the hip, especially with mags[footnote]Yet, not with SMG marksman training. Weird.[/footnote], it'll kill enemies reliably, in about four hits, rather quickly, up to about 50 meters. Since it's a SMG, it doesn't really need to be effective past that point. It's like a PDW alternative to a shotgun. The MP-4-12 can be used for longer range targets, with it's magnum accuracy.

Either im misunderstanding what you are trying to say about the 1911 or you havent the faintest idea what you are talking about.

I have the 1911, and use it frequently (thanks for calling me a dick). But what puzzles me is that it isnt a preorder weapon. Or is it? I dont even know, you have confused me. All I know is this:

1) I have the 1911 and did not preorder the game and

2) it is overpowered as fuck and to my knowledge available to everyone who has passed a certain level.

Yup, misunderstanding. The WWII 1911, and Tommy .45 were pre-order bonuses. If you preordered them, you got instant access from day one; but if you got to around level 10, you still got them, which pissed all of the people who preordered off.

Oh, and you're welcome. You said yourself the reason why I think so.

2) it is overpowered as fuck

Indeed it is.

Still doesn't make sense how the Tommy 45 is relatively ineffective firing from the hip without any specs, gets worse when you equip marksman training, but all of a sudden becomes the most accurate and effective hipfire SMG in modern BC2 when you equip mags.

 

[Sonic Doctor]

snip

Well...damn. Guess there is no reason not to pre-order unless you don't have the money then.

Yeah that is why I don't see why people are complaining about it. If they are going to get the game in the first place, why not just put the money up now for pre-order and get that out of the way so they don't have to think about not having the money when it comes launch day or as I said before, they don't have to have any money down with Amazon, because they just grab the money out of the orderer's account when it ships two days before launch.

I don't get the complaints ((several people in this thread keep saying that it is unfair because the rich people are paying for specialty items to do better in multiplayer)), because the limited edition where you get that stuff is the same price as the game when it gets launched. The only difference is that the people that are pre-ordering are just shelling out that money sooner.

As people have done before, they will argue against me saying that they don't have the money to pre-order at the moment. First off, it only takes five bucks to pre-order at a place like GameStop or Wal-Mart. Now if they don't have five dollars to put down, I would just tell them that they should be concentrating on more important matters if they don't have that small amount of money(perhaps seeing if they can get a job, or money from mommy or daddy =P). \

Other than that I would tell them to do as I said before, use Amazon.com, since they don't have the purchaser put anything down and the money doesn't come out of the person's bank account until the game ships around 1 to 2 days before launch. Pre-orders usually happen months in advance, so people that use Amazon, if they don't have the money at the moment, can do there best to get the money into their accounts before launch. If they know they are going to get the money in time, they can cancel their order within 5 or so days before launch. It's a pre-order that is free at the moment and gives the orderer time to get the money, and it guarantees the orderer the special, limited, collector's, or whatever edition they are looking for.

I stand by the awesomeness of Amazon. I wouldn't have the Xbox 360 collection that I have to day if I didn't pre-order the games I did from them, because at least three of the pre-orders I did from them I got money bonuses towards my next game purchases(50 dollars in total cash bonuses). Because of those bonuses, I got the triple pack of Dead Rising, Lost Planet, and Devil May Cry 4, for 25 dollars instead of 35. I got my pre-order copy of Fable 3 Collector's edition for 60 dollars instead of 80, and the last purchase I made with a bonus was Dragon Age Origins: Ultimate Edition for 30 dollars instead 50.

I have heard that some brick and mortar stores sometimes offer these cash bonuses as well.

People may complain about pre-orders and all, but if these people have the money, they might as well do it.

So folks, if you have the money pre-order do it, you get extra things with without paying extra, and sometimes you get great deals that allow you to build your game collection faster for cheaper.

 

[klasbo]

Anyway: More stuff iAndrew has to remove from the promod. With the mod tools he won't get...

No Modding tools for BF3 ?? Now that would be the real dealbreaker for me here.

BF2 had some of the greatest mods out there - like Project Realism and some ambitious teams that sadly couldn't work around the hard coded cockblocks (like Battlefield 40k)

Surely, with an expensive engine like Frostbite2, you'ld want the game to have as long as a shelf life as possible so you can sell it for at least a year after launch.

But at least you can milk your customers with dlc and mappacks... very well thought through...

In comparison, Blizzard under Activision:
SC2 has one of the best editors I've seen in years. With the first expansion pack, the MapMarketPlace will allow modders to make MONEY with their maps.
No DLC BS, buy one expansion each year if the fanmaps aren't allready enough.
I'ld give SC2 around 4-8 years of shelflife at the moment, perhaps even longer if the Expansions hold up to expectations.

Considering that there were no mod tools for Frostbite 1.0 or 1.5 (which BC2 runs on), there's a 99% chance that there won't be any tools for BF3 either. Read this post by Mikael Kalms from DICE to see why there were no tools for BC2. The big problem is the way a level is processed and packaged in such a way it becomes readable for the game engine. You can't make a new map without having all the proprietary and 3rd party software DICE has at their studio.

That's a really stupid way to set up your level design workflow. If they improve that for BF3, then maybe we'll see a map editor, but probably not. I think they'll rather spend that time on cramming the engine into an xbox...

Starcraft 2 is a whole other thing. The engine is - at its core - quite old, and so they've had a lot of time to add functionality that is not strictly necessary for Starcraft 2. You can wrangle that engine to run an FPS, something a few developers (can't remember who) from Blizzard showed by doing it. This engine was also never designed to work on anything other than a PC/mac, so that's time you can spend elsewhere.

 

[LorienvArden]

Kalms post was a really good insight into the workflow - however, I don't see why their engine needs the whole raw data for compiling a new level.
It seems like a very awkward setup for development - but might be necesssary to ensure the visual fidelity provided by the graphics engine (more power, less flexibility)

It might have been another dictate of EA to finish a working version of Frostbite as soon as possible that caused this setup, as I believe they used Frostbite quite heavily on other projects.
I remember some pretty wild work arounds for a game I needed to run at a convention. As a result, it ran on EXACTLY one computer in EXACTLY one way,precisly 4 minutes before the game was run before around 300 visitors. I called it "spit and prayer"-coding.

Well yes, I think the SCII engine is based on the WCIII engine as the editing system hasn't changed too much for the end customer. The graphics engine is capable of much more since then and has excellent scalability. It can be run on very low-end computers as well as provide high fidelty with sufficient hardware. The "use SCII for FPS" is a gimmick that could have been done in WCIII as well, but the graphics where just too terrible to be viable. You basicly just shift the viewpoint and add several events to mousebuttons and keyboard inputs that replicate a vague semblance of an FPS.

 

[Vrach]

snip

Quoting for notification purposes, you may wish to update this article:
http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/battlefield_bad_company/archive/2011/06/16/physical-warfare-pack-available-to-all-battlefield-3-players.aspx

Short version: Physical warfare is a time based exclusive. Didn't preorder? You're getting it anyway - just a bit later on.