Battlefield V reveal- your thoughts?

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Squilookle

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Squilookle said:
Here is the list of changes, for those wondering:

Phoenixmgs said:
Publishers don't care if their game sells on marketing and hype, the fact that it sold is all they care about. There are a good amount of alternatives to COD/BF from the CSGOs to the R6 Sieges to the Overwatches along with the big explosion of PUBG and Fortnite. I didn't even find BF the best "battlefield" shooter last-gen, I thought Warhawk was much better.
While all but one of those are missing the vehicle variety that really sells Battlefield, if Warhawk ever came to PC I'd be all over it in a flash.
Well...I wonder how much of that is in CoD or any of the games this has "copied".

The details there actually pique my interest a decent amount too, thanks.
 

Lufia Erim

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I don said:
If Polygon wants black people so badly, how about they depict them in a manner that, oh, I don't know, actually has some literary merit to it. For example, let us play as a black soldier in a segregated unit, where white Americans spit on you and call you a ******. Then they send you on suicide missions, and in the end they won't even let you into the buildings and streets you liberated. Your deeds are barely recognized, and your commanding officer wishes he were in command of whites, and blames you for his incompetence. It might just build some empathy... But no, let's celebrate this glorious war where we gamers can all be included, and defeat some Nazis.
Let's not. I think you'd enjoy that too much
 

Bob_McMillan

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Squilookle said:
So Europe and Africa on launch again huh... Oh well.

But some of those changes I didn't know about and they look very interesting. How they will go over in the Battlefield community, I don't know. Just mention throwing knives in a Battlefield forum and people lose their shit. I really do now wish they had chosen some other, more exotic setting so all these drastic changes wouldn't be so out of place.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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Squilookle said:
Phoenixmgs said:
Publishers don't care if their game sells on marketing and hype, the fact that it sold is all they care about. There are a good amount of alternatives to COD/BF from the CSGOs to the R6 Sieges to the Overwatches along with the big explosion of PUBG and Fortnite. I didn't even find BF the best "battlefield" shooter last-gen, I thought Warhawk was much better.
While all but one of those are missing the vehicle variety that really sells Battlefield, if Warhawk ever came to PC I'd be all over it in a flash.
True, there ain't many shooters with vehicles in them.

I don said:
Phoenixmgs said:
The best sharpshooters aren't nearly as good as a gamer with a controller in their hands, let alone a KB/M. I could headshot players on the move across the map in MGO in about a second flat along with many other players. That's not possible in real life outside of a super lucky shot.
I don't know how large MGO maps are, or whether you had aim assist on, or if the game has hitscan weapons. After BC2, bullet drop stopped you from pointing and clicking, and you had to guess the range and use the mildots. Then they added that stupid rangefinder in BF4, but anyways I never found myself quickscoping and headshotting players across the map. In fact I found it difficult to even hit a moving person.

There are fps games where weapons are not tied to fire exactly at the center of the screen. Weapon inertia will screw up your ability to move your gun and shoot someone instantly.
Making a war game all about suffering isn't going to sell nearly as much as Michael Bay: The Game. Yeah, you don't need the top-notch writing to accomplish that, but DICE or Treyarch or even good Infinity Ward weren't ever make a FPS like that.
I have to wonder, do people even buy these games for the campaign? It seems like COD cut it out, but people are mad only because don't want to pay $60 for a multiplayer game even if they weren't going to play the campaign in the first place. Then there's Battlefield. I don't think anyone couldn't trust DICE to make a good singleplayer campaign after BF3. Those BF3 E3 trailers fooled everybody, but after that I doubt people buy it for the campaign.

There's one game that I know that did well with the suffering campaign, and that's CoH2. It was historically inaccurate and the Russians hated it for very good reasons, but it sold near CoH1, don't know the numbers exactly, but such a campaign is totally possible.
The maps weren't large (6v6 was the standard), but even shooting across a football field with an assault rifle, the best marksman in the world isn't going to be able to out-shoot a gamer with a controller. Also, there is no aim-assist in MGO2, wouldn't be surprised if there was some slight degree of bullet magnetism though. Most weapons were hitscan I believe though the tranq guns (pistol and sniper) weren't and you had to lead your targets. Sure, there's ways to make aiming harder in a video game but most shooters, especially anything semi-popular, do very little to make aiming and shooting much harder. Plus, the biggest trick to shooting accurately in real life isn't the actual aiming but not jerking the gun when firing.

I would definitely think a minority cares about the campaign, but the question is how big is that minority? It could be in the millions with how COD sells. Activision and EA want these games to be the biggest sellers possible and suffering/depressing just doesn't sell as well regardless of medium really.
 
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Lufia Erim said:
Let's not. I think you'd enjoy that too much
Yes I would enjoy this campaign.

From what I've seen, I don't think racists would enjoy being lectured, but rather they would deny that this happened or it is overblown, just like how they keep saying the Holocaust never happened. They and patriotic people would definitely be angry that they decided to focus on issue. In reality, this is what happened.
Phoenixmgs said:
I would definitely think a minority cares about the campaign, but the question is how big is that minority? It could be in the millions with how COD sells. Activision and EA want these games to be the biggest sellers possible and suffering/depressing just doesn't sell as well regardless of medium really.
Personally, I don't think not having a campaign will stop people from buying it, unless it's MW4. I guess we will see when BO4 comes out. I don't think a campaign should be all suffering, because that would get tiring quickly. Also you can notice that these campaigns are trying not to be all bombastic, like COD:WW2 depiction of the Holocaust, or BF1's first mission. I don't think they were very effective, but when people keep on complaining how easy, basic, and boring the campaigns are, I think you at least need to tone down the number of people you kill every level and how easy it is to kill them.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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I don said:
Phoenixmgs said:
I would definitely think a minority cares about the campaign, but the question is how big is that minority? It could be in the millions with how COD sells. Activision and EA want these games to be the biggest sellers possible and suffering/depressing just doesn't sell as well regardless of medium really.
Personally, I don't think not having a campaign will stop people from buying it, unless it's MW4. I guess we will see when BO4 comes out. I don't think a campaign should be all suffering, because that would get tiring quickly. Also you can notice that these campaigns are trying not to be all bombastic, like COD:WW2 depiction of the Holocaust, or BF1's first mission. I don't think they were very effective, but when people keep on complaining how easy, basic, and boring the campaigns are, I think you at least need to tone down the number of people you kill every level and how easy it is to kill them.
Are the people complaining the voice of the majority? Because complainers are usually the vocal minority, especially with regards to any kind of forum posting. Also, are the complainers still buying the product yearly?

 

Kreett

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Smithnikov said:
A woman fighting in World War 2, what kind of bullshit is...

http://www.todayifoundout.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Lyudmila-Pavlichenko-2.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Anna_Yegorova.jpg/220px-Anna_Yegorova.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9d/1c/f0/9d1cf0014f035d7ac8c4ae40259277c2.jpg

http://www.voxfeminae.net/media/k2/items/cache/e4324d2ca70a2a04e4b81994ebc57808_XL.jpg

http://tuscantraveler.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Unknown.jpeg

https://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_1484w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2017/08/04/BookWorld/Images/THEUNWOMANLYFACEOFWARCover.jpg?t=20170517

But otherwise, yea, World War 2, yawn.
But where are their prosthetic arms able to support the weight of a rifle or used to swing a cricket bat?
 

Gordon_4_v1legacy

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Kreett said:
Smithnikov said:
A woman fighting in World War 2, what kind of bullshit is...

http://www.todayifoundout.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Lyudmila-Pavlichenko-2.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Anna_Yegorova.jpg/220px-Anna_Yegorova.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9d/1c/f0/9d1cf0014f035d7ac8c4ae40259277c2.jpg

http://www.voxfeminae.net/media/k2/items/cache/e4324d2ca70a2a04e4b81994ebc57808_XL.jpg

http://tuscantraveler.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Unknown.jpeg

https://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_1484w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2017/08/04/BookWorld/Images/THEUNWOMANLYFACEOFWARCover.jpg?t=20170517

But otherwise, yea, World War 2, yawn.
But where are their prosthetic arms able to support the weight of a rifle or used to swing a cricket bat?
The prosthetic is her left arm and hand, the gun she's using is a Thompson which is about 5KG-6KG - its not a BAR - and she's holding it and firing it in her right hand. The prosthetic is supporting it at the barrel, so what she's doing isn't impossible. Like wise the trench club she wallops Fritz with is wielded in her right hand, and it looks like she had a bit of a run up before lamping him.

So again, not impossible. Highly unlikely, but not impossible. Certainly not in this two-fisted, pulp fiction style they've got going on.
 

Mcgeezaks

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Smithnikov said:
A woman fighting in World War 2, what kind of bullshit is...

http://www.todayifoundout.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Lyudmila-Pavlichenko-2.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Anna_Yegorova.jpg/220px-Anna_Yegorova.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9d/1c/f0/9d1cf0014f035d7ac8c4ae40259277c2.jpg

http://www.voxfeminae.net/media/k2/items/cache/e4324d2ca70a2a04e4b81994ebc57808_XL.jpg

http://tuscantraveler.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Unknown.jpeg

https://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_1484w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2017/08/04/BookWorld/Images/THEUNWOMANLYFACEOFWARCover.jpg?t=20170517

But otherwise, yea, World War 2, yawn.
Notice that they're all Russians. Even so, they probably made up like 0.001% of the Russian infantry during WW2.
 

Erttheking

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BabyfartsMcgeezaks said:
Smithnikov said:
A woman fighting in World War 2, what kind of bullshit is...

http://www.todayifoundout.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Lyudmila-Pavlichenko-2.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Anna_Yegorova.jpg/220px-Anna_Yegorova.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9d/1c/f0/9d1cf0014f035d7ac8c4ae40259277c2.jpg

http://www.voxfeminae.net/media/k2/items/cache/e4324d2ca70a2a04e4b81994ebc57808_XL.jpg

http://tuscantraveler.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Unknown.jpeg

https://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_1484w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2017/08/04/BookWorld/Images/THEUNWOMANLYFACEOFWARCover.jpg?t=20170517

But otherwise, yea, World War 2, yawn.
Notice that they're all Russians. Even so, they probably made up like 0.001% of the Russian infantry during WW2.
More like 3%. Which comes out to over 800,000.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_Russian_and_Soviet_military
 

Bob_McMillan

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Gordon_4 said:
The prosthetic is her left arm and hand, the gun she's using is a Thompson which is about 5KG-6KG - its not a BAR - and she's holding it and firing it in her right hand. The prosthetic is supporting it at the barrel, so what she's doing isn't impossible. Like wise the trench club she wallops Fritz with is wielded in her right hand, and it looks like she had a bit of a run up before lamping him.

So again, not impossible. Highly unlikely, but not impossible. Certainly not in this two-fisted, pulp fiction style they've got going on.
She uses a bolt action too though. Now that seems like the kind of weapon that you might need two hands for.

Actually, now that I think about it, why does she have a sniper rifle and a tommy gun? Those should be two separate weapon classes.

EDIT: Now that I've thought more about it, I can't see how this prosthetic stuff can work.

If that lady is the character model for a whole class in the game, then a) you have a way too distinct player model for a class that is going to picked by essentially a quarter of the server and b) every single player using that class is going to have a bionic arm, even if you are a fan of this aesthetic you can't say that won't look weird.

If it's just a customizable thing, then you're essentially turning someone's grave injury into a fucking cosmetic item, that doesn't sound right.

I now have a feeling this lady is just going to be in singleplayer or something.
 

Gordon_4_v1legacy

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Bob_McMillan said:
Gordon_4 said:
The prosthetic is her left arm and hand, the gun she's using is a Thompson which is about 5KG-6KG - its not a BAR - and she's holding it and firing it in her right hand. The prosthetic is supporting it at the barrel, so what she's doing isn't impossible. Like wise the trench club she wallops Fritz with is wielded in her right hand, and it looks like she had a bit of a run up before lamping him.

So again, not impossible. Highly unlikely, but not impossible. Certainly not in this two-fisted, pulp fiction style they've got going on.
She uses a bolt action too though. Now that seems like the kind of weapon that you might need two hands for.

Actually, now that I think about it, why does she have a sniper rifle and a tommy gun? Those should be two separate weapon classes.

EDIT: Now that I've thought more about it, I can't see how this prosthetic stuff can work.

If that lady is the character model for a whole class in the game, then a) you have a way too distinct player model for a class that is going to picked by essentially a quarter of the server and b) every single player using that class is going to have a bionic arm, even if you are a fan of this aesthetic you can't say that won't look weird.

If it's just a customizable thing, then you're essentially turning someone's grave injury into a fucking cosmetic item, that doesn't sound right.

I now have a feeling this lady is just going to be in singleplayer or something.
I didn't notice her using a bolt action, but I agree, that would be difficult as fuck to use with one working hand.
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

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Bob_McMillan said:
If that lady is the character model for a whole class in the game, then a) you have a way too distinct player model for a class that is going to picked by essentially a quarter of the server and b) every single player using that class is going to have a bionic arm, even if you are a fan of this aesthetic you can't say that won't look weird.

If it's just a customizable thing, then you're essentially turning someone's grave injury into a fucking cosmetic item, that doesn't sound right.

I now have a feeling this lady is just going to be in singleplayer or something.
DICE has said that all soldiers in multiplayer will be customizable, so she, just like the rest of the outrageous crew (seriously, no one has anything to say about the paratrooper with the Katana, the black guy in a weird mix of tanker, paratrooper and infantry gear and two pairs of goggles or the dude running around in a tank top and non-regulation beard?) is probably meant as a showcase of what kind of customization you can achieve in multiplayer.

Besides, getting hung up on a prosthetic as a customization option as distasteful is pretty weird when you are talking about a game that is essentially providing light entertainment of the worst conflict in human history, that claimed some 70+ million lives worldwide.

Gordon_4 said:
I didn't notice her using a bolt action, but I agree, that would be difficult as fuck to use with one working hand.
Not really. Any shooter worth their damn, especially of the sharpshooter or sniper variety, will cycle the bolt without taking the rifle off their shoulder. When you do it that way you are using your shoulder as a brace for the rifle, which means that whether you've got a stable grip on the front hand guard or not isn't important. The point of doing it like that is to preserve your aim for a follow up shot and it is pretty basic drill for bolt action rifles.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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It's so American to think that women didn't fight in WW2, just because American women didn't. Many European countries didn't have the luxury of allowing only men to fight. A lot of minors fought as well. Why don't people ask for some 15 year old soldiers and resistance fighters in WW2 games if they're so in love with the idea of authenticity?
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

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Adam Jensen said:
It's so American to think that women didn't fight in WW2, just because American women didn't. Many European countries didn't have the luxury of allowing only men to fight. A lot of minors fought as well. Why don't people ask for some 15 year old soldiers and resistance fighters in WW2 games if they're so in love with the idea of authenticity?
To be fair the overwehelming majority of female British soldiers served in AA batteries as spotlight operators, or nurses, or as unofficial prostitutes in the ATS and specifically didn't see frontline European theater action.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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MC1980 said:
erttheking said:
More like 3%. Which comes out to over 800,000.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_Russian_and_Soviet_military
"Over 800,000 women served in the Soviet armed forces in World War II, mostly as medics and nurses, which is over 3 percent of total personnel;"

So not infantry.

It's in the middle of the sentence you're quoting, how the hell you miss it.
"Mostly" =/= "all". Like, keep going down the page.

As far as the British goes, they were parachuting women spies and saboteurs into occupied France as part of the SOE. It wouldn't be unreasonable for them to link up with allied ground forces when they rolled in.

Lastly, y'all want to complain about the rarity of women in combat from a trailer showing a Churchill Gun Carrier, an exceedingly rare tank that was confirmed to have never, ever actually seen combat.
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

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Silentpony said:
To be fair the overwehelming majority of female British soldiers served in AA batteries as spotlight operators, or nurses, or as unofficial prostitutes in the ATS and specifically didn't see frontline European theater action.
The irony is that the same can be said of male British soldiers. For every man on the frontline there were 20 behind him making sure he was clothed, fed and given the weapons and ammo necessary for him to fight. They all contributed vital work towards the defeat of Nazi-Germany, but the simple truth is that the stories about the guys who were at the front and did the physical fighting are more compelling. The same is true for the women, because there were many British women who ended up in combat by chance or choice, especially the many women who were with the OSS and spent a lot of time during the liberation of France leading resistance fighters in attacks on the Germans, acting as scouts and pathfinders for the allied armies etc..

It simply boggles my mind that everyone just readily accepts that we focus on the stories of the exceptional men that fought in WW2 (ie. Audry Murphy) while forgetting that most men who served never fired a weapon in anger. Yet when the same is asked about women during WW2 it suddenly becomes this unthinkable deal breaker that destroys realism and immersion for ever. This from the same trailer where a British soldier hip fires an MG-42 while on his back to hit and detonate a grenade his buddy threw so that the grenade destroys a low flying German aircraft.

It is a very selective interpretation of what's realistic and immersive, is all I am saying.
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

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Gethsemani said:
Silentpony said:
To be fair the overwehelming majority of female British soldiers served in AA batteries as spotlight operators, or nurses, or as unofficial prostitutes in the ATS and specifically didn't see frontline European theater action.
The irony is that the same can be said of male British soldiers. For every man on the frontline there were 20 behind him making sure he was clothed, fed and given the weapons and ammo necessary for him to fight. They all contributed vital work towards the defeat of Nazi-Germany, but the simple truth is that the stories about the guys who were at the front and did the physical fighting are more compelling. The same is true for the women, because there were many British women who ended up in combat by chance or choice, especially the many women who were with the OSS and spent a lot of time during the liberation of France leading resistance fighters in attacks on the Germans, acting as scouts and pathfinders for the allied armies etc..

It simply boggles my mind that everyone just readily accepts that we focus on the stories of the exceptional men that fought in WW2 (ie. Audry Murphy) while forgetting that most men who served never fired a weapon in anger. Yet when the same is asked about women during WW2 it suddenly becomes this unthinkable deal breaker that destroys realism and immersion for ever. This from the same trailer where a British soldier hip fires an MG-42 while on his back to hit and detonate a grenade his buddy threw so that the grenade destroys a low flying German aircraft.

It is a very selective interpretation of what's realistic and immersive, is all I am saying.
I don't think anyone is saying that there weren't women in the war, but what's the ratio to men? 1,000,000/1? Less maybe? So to be realistic and immersive, say 1 player of all the players of BFV gets to be a female soldier, total. If the game sells 2million copies then a second female soldier is unlocked.

So when DICE comes out like 'look here, this unit has 10 female soldiers in it, isn't that great?' a historian goes 'The British didn't even have 10 frontline female soldiers period'

Again no one is saying women didn't fight, but if EA is going for realistic and accurate, it should be that. The ratio should be absurd because the fact women weren't allowed on the frontlines in most nations was absurd.
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

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Silentpony said:
Again no one is saying women didn't fight, but if EA is going for realistic and accurate, it should be that. The ratio should be absurd because the fact women weren't allowed on the frontlines in most nations was absurd.
They rather explicitly aren't. Just like how BF1 wasn't anywhere near remotely realistic, considering that several of the guns you regularly saw in matches were made in less than a hundred copies (ie. most of the semi-automatic rifles) and some of them weren't even on the battlefields of world war 1 or didn't make it past prototyping (the Hellriegel). If you can accept a game that has four British dudes in WW1 charging across no man's land with Hellriegel's after putting a remote detonation explosive atop a zeppelin and parachuting off of it with said prototype SMGs blazing, only to land next to a British squad in an A7V (total number built 20-ish, which is what you see in about five hours of BF1) joining the assault, but feel that the inclusion of women or black people in exaggerated amounts in a WW2 setting is were realism breaks that really does say more about you and your perceptions on realism and immersion then it does DICE or EA.
 

Ninjamedic

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Gethsemani said:
a game that is essentially providing light entertainment of the worst conflict in human history, that claimed some 70+ million lives worldwide.
That's actually my main objection to the game myself funnily enough. Well, for the marketing and presentation at least, I;m not going to look down on people for playing it or anything.

I should also say the last Battlefield I enjoyed was Bad Company and Modern Warfare put me off modern shooters.