Beauty and the Beast - Time to Crush a Rose

[Hawki]

Per what others have said, I do find Emma Watson attractive, but I don't think you need a Madonna for a live-action BatB to work. Belle needs to be reasonably attractive, if only because her being pretty is why Gaston is infatuated with her, but Belle is shown to have a strong character nonetheless (least in the original Disney version). 'Inner beauty' applies for both the Beast and Belle, whereas Gaston is a hunk on the outside, but a brute on the inside (at least by the end of the original Disney film).

 

[Recusant]

He made that film. It still vexxes me that in a film where a rage monster kidnaps and holds prisoner a townsperson that the guy rescuing her is the villain.

... You know, I've been waiting twenty six years to hear (read, whatever) someone else say that. Sure, Gaston's a bit of a brute, and yeah, he's impatient and not very smart. But aside from proving reluctant to take the word of a hostage who's fallen in love with her kidnapper, his only sin is leading a charge against a person so evil that he was cursed when he was only eleven years old. He's really not a bad guy.

 

[xaszatm]

But... But Gaston! What about Gaston?! Is he as entertaining as he always was?!

Luke Evans doesn't sway like Gaston, doesn't ***** like Gaston, in the movie he doesn't have charisma like Gaston.

And as a specimen he's not that intiiiiiiiiiimidating

He's not that much good as Gaston!

 

[Asita]

As long as it is still true that in a wrestling match nobody bites like Gaston!

He made that film. It still vexxes me that in a film where a rage monster kidnaps and holds prisoner a townsperson that the guy rescuing her is the villain.

... You know, I've been waiting twenty six years to hear (read, whatever) someone else say that. Sure, Gaston's a bit of a brute, and yeah, he's impatient and not very smart. But aside from proving reluctant to take the word of a hostage who's fallen in love with her kidnapper, his only sin is leading a charge against a person so evil that he was cursed when he was only eleven years old. He's really not a bad guy.

...I'm sorry, what?

Spoiler

Let me recap here: Gaston didn't believe that Belle was so much as missing, much less a prisoner. He did, however, feel entitled to her affection as if she were a trophy. As he put it in the opening number he wanted to marry her purely because she was "the most beautiful girl in town. That makes her the best! And don't I deserve the best?" and on the grounds that she was the only person in town as beautiful as he was. Then, when she rebukes him he decides to bribe the asylum to have her father committed for the sake of blackmailing her into accepting his proposal. He ultimately only decides to go after the Beast after recognizing him as a rival for Belle's affections. This is succinctly demonstrated with Gaston's angered inquiry "did you honestly think she'd want you, when she had someone like me?" and subsequent declaration "it's over Beast, Belle is mine!" Let me reemphasize that: The guy pretty much flew into a murderous rage out of nothing more than jealousy.

The guy is prettier and less inclined towards taking over the world than Jafar or Ursula, but he is every bit as vile as Mother Gothel and Frollo.

 

[Tanis]

It's a shame, but I really didn't expect much.

Outside of ONE song, the original movie didn't move me much.

The plot seemed fucked up, even as a kid, given the whole 'she wants to bang a werewolf and isn't he abusing her?' thing.

O well.

 

[bjj hero]

Let me recap here: Gaston didn't believe that Belle was so much as missing, much less a prisoner. He did, however, feel entitled to her affection as if she were a trophy. As he put it in the opening number he wanted to marry her purely because she was "the most beautiful girl in town. That makes her the best! And don't I deserve the best?" and on the grounds that she was the only person in town as beautiful as he was. Then, when she rebukes him he decides to bribe the asylum to have her father committed for the sake of blackmailing her into accepting his proposal. He ultimately only decides to go after the Beast after recognizing him as a rival for Belle's affections. This is succinctly demonstrated with Gaston's angered inquiry "did you honestly think she'd want you, when she had someone like me?" and subsequent declaration "it's over Beast, Belle is mine!" Let me reemphasize that: The guy pretty much flew into a murderous rage out of nothing more than jealousy.

The guy is prettier and less inclined towards taking over the world than Jafar or Ursula, but he is every bit as vile as Mother Gothel and Frollo.

But youre happy to root for a killer, a kidnapper, someone whos vile actions cursed an entire towns worth of people. Think of all of their families where daddy never returned because he is now a plate.


Maybe Gastons motivations are suspect but his actions are correct when he storms the castle. He went to fight the beast being the under dog, physically smaller, no horns, fangs or claws.

 

[Andsre]

But youre happy to root for a killer, a kidnapper, someone whos vile actions cursed an entire towns worth of people. Think of all of their families where daddy never returned because he is now a plate.

You mean the (presumably) orphan child prince who makes a bad choice by being a dick?

Maybe Gastons motivations are suspect but his actions are correct when he storms the castle. He went to fight the beast being the under dog, physically smaller, no horns, fangs or claws.

In a jealous rage, he riles an entire town up by spreading lies about a shut-in Beast. He might be smaller and weaker but he's also backed by an armed militia.

Not that Beast is in the right about his actions, mind you. Gaston is just clearly more of a villain.

 

[Andsre]

Double post

 

[Auron225]

But youre happy to root for a killer, a kidnapper, someone whos vile actions cursed an entire towns worth of people. Think of all of their families where daddy never returned because he is now a plate.


Maybe Gastons motivations are suspect but his actions are correct when he storms the castle. He went to fight the beast being the under dog, physically smaller, no horns, fangs or claws.

Killer? Who does he kill and when? It's been a while since I've seen the Disney version, and I have yet to see the remake, but I can't remember Beast ever murdering someone. And wouldn't it be the Enchantress that you'd find unfair, rather than Beast, for cursing the entire castle? Beast didn't demand that if he went down, his whole castle go down with him - that was entirely her own decision.

Also, "maybe his motivations are suspect"? You say that as if we can't be sure that he's a narcissistic entitled maniac. He wasn't saving Belle for her sake - he was just "reclaiming his property". He definitely didn't think of himself as the underdog either - he was leading a witch hunt like it was a holy crusade.

As for kidnapping, being angry/violent in general (and being a jackass in his youth), yeah - I'll give you that. Beast isn't Prince Charming, or even particularly admirable, but that doesn't excuse Gaston and his atrocities. Don't get me wrong, he's a brilliant character and I found him hilarious in the '91 version, but to paint him as some misunderstood hero is a step too far.

 

[Mangod]

They are gonna continue it, and according to Wikipedia they are gonna make live action films for:

Mulan
Aladdin
Don Quijote?
Dumbo
Peter Pan
Pinnochio
Snow White
The Lion King
Little Mermaid
And.....Night on Bald fuckin MOUNTAIN?! They are gonna live action this?

Wait, they're gonna try to make Don Quixote a Live Action film? I've heard Don Quixote is one of the hardest Books to turn into a Film, and it was so problematic that even Walt Disney realized he couldn't make a film out of it.

Still, I didn't know they were gonna turn Night on Bald Mountain into an individual movie. That could be really cool! Then again, it could also suck really bad.

Does Night on Bald Mountain even have a plot? It's just The Dark Lord Satan and his entourage hanging out until curfew.

 

[Hawki]

Does Night on Bald Mountain even have a plot? It's just The Dark Lord Satan and his entourage hanging out until curfew.

That's pretty much it, but if anything, that makes the sound of a movie sound more appealing. It'll force the movie-makers to come up with a bona fide plot, whereas the other remakes will follow their predecessors to some degree.

 

[bjj hero]

Killer? Who does he kill and when? It's been a while since I've seen the Disney version, and I have yet to see the remake, but I can't remember Beast ever murdering someone. And wouldn't it be the Enchantress that you'd find unfair, rather than Beast, for cursing the entire castle? Beast didn't demand that if he went down, his whole castle go down with him - that was entirely her own decision.

This is an enchanted castle where the inhabitants have been transformed into sentient furniture. The first thing he does when Belle doesnt do as she is told? Flies into a rage and smashes a load of furniture.

I can forgive the towns people for attacking the furniture, they do not know the back story and probably think it is haunted. Beast knows exactly what happened and in all likelyhood had met them as people before transformation. The actions of a real monster, they never stood a chance.

Equally damaging furniture and items in a rage is textbook controlling behaviour in domestic violence.

If Id known Belle. I would be all for storming the castle. Gaston would get my vote.

And the enchantress being a douche makes the Beast no less douchey.

 

[bjj hero]

But youre happy to root for a killer, a kidnapper, someone whos vile actions cursed an entire towns worth of people. Think of all of their families where daddy never returned because he is now a plate.

You mean the (presumably) orphan child prince who makes a bad choice by being a dick?

Maybe Gastons motivations are suspect but his actions are correct when he storms the castle. He went to fight the beast being the under dog, physically smaller, no horns, fangs or claws.

In a jealous rage, he riles an entire town up by spreading lies about a shut-in Beast. He might be smaller and weaker but he's also backed by an armed militia.

Not that Beast is in the right about his actions, mind you. Gaston is just clearly more of a villain.

Ill start by saying Ive not watched it in over 10 years but...

Child or not, if he has that much power then he absolutely has responsibility to go with it. He is the prince incharge of hundreds of people, and that is just his reach within the castle. With a title of prince it is easy to imagine his powers are far more expansive. Equally, his painting in the attic, pre beast, doesnt make him look like he is 8 years old.

You expected Gaston to go in alone? Beast had an equally formidable magical army. Im sure at one point there was a selection of sentient animated throwing knives. That is horror movie territory.

 

[Andsre]

I rewatched it a few weeks ago, so it might be clearer in my mind.

You expected Gaston to go in alone? Beast had an equally formidable magical army. Im sure at one point there was a selection of sentient animated throwing knives. That is horror movie territory.

It was more of a response to your saying his actions were right despite dupious motivations. I completely agree that going as a group was the prudent thing to do. I just can't agree with it being the "right thing to do". He basically uses the townspeople as meat-shields so he can shoot a passive Beast in the back out of jealousy. Now if has was handled/written in a different way you could argue about the nobility of his actions, but Gaston, as written by Disney, is clearly a (if not THE) villanous character of the story.

 

[Silent Protagonist]

You expected Gaston to go in alone? Beast had an equally formidable magical army. Im sure at one point there was a selection of sentient animated throwing knives. That is horror movie territory.

That's really the only thing that made me curious about the live action adaptation, the realization of how absolutely terrifying that fight scene would be if it wasn't cartoon slapstick. A man is crushed to death right before our eyes beneath a wardrobe that jumped from a great height, candlesticks and ovens turn into flamethrowers, people are sliced and diced by the aforementioned kitchen utensils, boiling water is poured on a man's face by a bunch of what were formerly children, in addition to the massive amount of relatively mundane but still extremely harmful blunt force trauma delivered by the wooden and even sometimes metal assailants.

In retrospect(possibly only due to having since become a fan of the SCP Foundation website), given how horrifying this entire scenario is for literally every single character we see in such a wide variety of different ways, I think it's an absolute shame this was written as a love story and not a horror story.

 

[bjj hero]

I rewatched it a few weeks ago, so it might be clearer in my mind.

You expected Gaston to go in alone? Beast had an equally formidable magical army. Im sure at one point there was a selection of sentient animated throwing knives. That is horror movie territory.

It was more of a response to your saying his actions were right despite dupious motivations. I completely agree that going as a group was the prudent thing to do. I just can't agree with it being the "right thing to do". He basically uses the townspeople as meat-shields so he can shoot a passive Beast in the back out of jealousy. Now if has was handled/written in a different way you could argue about the nobility of his actions, but Gaston, as written by Disney, is clearly a (if not THE) villanous character of the story.

Youve seen it more recently than me and I have no plans to watch it any time soon.

All Im saying is Beast is vile and if I was a villager who knew Belle, Gaston would get my vote. I never said his motivations were noble, selfless or even good but storming the castle is defensible.

 

[Auron225]

Killer? Who does he kill and when? It's been a while since I've seen the Disney version, and I have yet to see the remake, but I can't remember Beast ever murdering someone. And wouldn't it be the Enchantress that you'd find unfair, rather than Beast, for cursing the entire castle? Beast didn't demand that if he went down, his whole castle go down with him - that was entirely her own decision.

This is an enchanted castle where the inhabitants have been transformed into sentient furniture. The first thing he does when Belle doesnt do as she is told? Flies into a rage and smashes a load of furniture.

I can forgive the towns people for attacking the furniture, they do not know the back story and probably think it is haunted. Beast knows exactly what happened and in all likelyhood had met them as people before transformation. The actions of a real monster, they never stood a chance.

Equally damaging furniture and items in a rage is textbook controlling behaviour in domestic violence.

If Id known Belle. I would be all for storming the castle. Gaston would get my vote.

And the enchantress being a douche makes the Beast no less douchey.

But it makes Gaston less douchey?

 

[Asita]

But youre happy to root for a killer, a kidnapper, someone whos vile actions cursed an entire towns worth of people. Think of all of their families where daddy never returned because he is now a plate.


Maybe Gastons motivations are suspect but his actions are correct when he storms the castle. He went to fight the beast being the under dog, physically smaller, no horns, fangs or claws.

No, they really aren't. He has absolutely no reason to believe that the Beast is a threat to anyone, he didn't even believe the Beast existed until literally a few seconds before deciding to attack him. And even then Belle only revealed the Beast to him and the townsfolk to vindicate her father, whom Gaston had arranged to be committed to an insane asylum to blackmail her into marrying him. Say what you will about keeping Belle as a prisoner, by the end of the story Gaston is worse.

Regarding the curse, it helps to understand surrounding mythology, particularly what we'd now consider the ancient tradition of "sacred hospitality". Guests must not harm their host, hosts must not harm their guests, and failing to offer shelter to someone who needed it was a serious offense that invited divine retribution.

Now that we've had a refresher on that, let's look again at the prologue. The enchantress approaches him in the guise of a beggar woman and offers him a rose in return for shelter, and then curses him for refusing. It's a very disproportionate retribution, but that's a tale as old as time right there, prevalent not only in fairy tales but across cultures. In ancient Greece it was xenia and directly represented in the tale of Bacius and Philemon[footnote]the eponymous couple were rewarded for their hospitality to the peasants (really Zeus and Hermes), the village below (who had all refused them) was destroyed[/footnote], in ancient Hebrew culture it's hachnasat orchim, and a major element of the story of Soddom and Gomorrah[footnote]Which plays out very similarly to the story of Bacius and Philemon[/footnote]. In India it is Atithi Devo Bhava ("The guest is equivalent to god"). It's folly to take any particular meaning out of the curse, because it falls so well into that mythological archetype.

 

[Mangod]

Does Night on Bald Mountain even have a plot? It's just The Dark Lord Satan and his entourage hanging out until curfew.

That's pretty much it, but if anything, that makes the sound of a movie sound more appealing. It'll force the movie-makers to come up with a bona fide plot, whereas the other remakes will follow their predecessors to some degree.

Good point... though now, I'm wondering what kind of plot they'd spin out of the basic premise of "Satan on a Mountaintop, just hanging around".

 

[bjj hero]

But youre happy to root for a killer, a kidnapper, someone whos vile actions cursed an entire towns worth of people. Think of all of their families where daddy never returned because he is now a plate.


Maybe Gastons motivations are suspect but his actions are correct when he storms the castle. He went to fight the beast being the under dog, physically smaller, no horns, fangs or claws.

No, they really aren't. He has absolutely no reason to believe that the Beast is a threat to anyone, he didn't even believe the Beast existed until literally a few seconds before deciding to attack him. And even then Belle only revealed the Beast to him and the townsfolk to vindicate her father, whom Gaston had arranged to be committed to an insane asylum to blackmail her into marrying him. Say what you will about keeping Belle as a prisoner, by the end of the story Gaston is worse.

Except when Belles father told him about the beast he stressed how monsterous he was. Gaston doesnt believe him. Belle confirms this beast so that is the only information he has. Big, monsterous and kidnaps townsfolk. In any other story that is the time to go and stop him.

But we root for beast because he kidnaps belle and wears her down until she likes him, the only non furniture company she is allowed.