Guild Wars has amazing PvP. Right shame that it's all but deserted with the release of Guild Wars 2.
I reckon that people use the word homogenize like it's a bad term. I don't see why it's a big deal; sure some classes share abilities now, but having only one class that could provide certain buffs or only one class that could battle rez made forming groups such a pain. As for the HP...I've actually never heard that complaint. Clothies still go squish when you hit them with things and plates can still take a beating (except dks but they aren't that far in the hole).Bertylicious said:I have heard it said that PvP ruined WoW because it meant they had to do more to homogenise the different classes, factions and game mechanics (like HP and such) for PvP.
What do y'all reckon to that?
WAR did have some awesome pvp at launch i loved both the scenarios(battlegrounds) and the open world area control especially if you found a decent warband in the area and you went through fighting back and forth for the control pointsMeatspinner said:I remember really loving Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning back when it launched. Played a Chosen (Tank chaos boy) that actually worked in PvP (PC taunt ftw).
Haven't played it in a long while though. I hear it's free to play
But the combat mechanics in that game weren't just bad, they were nonexistent. The only thing you did was click on the enemy to run towards them and start smacking/shooting/casting spells, healing when needed until either you or your enemy drops dead. Plus, it was balanced a la rock-paper-scissors, with melee fighters beating archers, archers beating mages and mages beating melee fighters. It might work for a group-oriented game, where everyone has their own specific role and therefore needs to coordinate in order to perform well, but Runescape had (and maybe still has, dunno) zero options for cooperation and interaction between players.ShinyCharizard said:I was a fan of the PVP in old school Runescape. It had such a great risk vs reward element to it. Too bad the company wrecked it though.
How did DAOC deal with it, or how did the players deal with it? We just sucked it up. It was a slide show during big keep sieges, but in small group skirmishes or zerg on zerg out in the field, it was generally alright, and that's where the game shone.Ishal said:How did DAoC deal with the game-crippling lag that was rampant throughout the open world? That issue is pretty much the only one that is ever brought up by anyone I've ever talked to who played DAoC. Guild Wars 2 solved that issue with a queing system, but it still has its problems (rendering issues *facepalm*).
Yeah culling is bad in GW2. Kinda wish I wasn't a 12 yr old when DAoC was in its prime. I hear that Mythic (or whats left of it) is now being directed to make app games by EA.BloatedGuppy said:How did DAOC deal with it, or how did the players deal with it? We just sucked it up. It was a slide show during big keep sieges, but in small group skirmishes or zerg on zerg out in the field, it was generally alright, and that's where the game shone.Ishal said:How did DAoC deal with the game-crippling lag that was rampant throughout the open world? That issue is pretty much the only one that is ever brought up by anyone I've ever talked to who played DAoC. Guild Wars 2 solved that issue with a queing system, but it still has its problems (rendering issues *facepalm*).
Frankly culling (GW2) is 100 times worse for a PvP game than lag could ever hope to be.
It is sad, but Mythic has only themselves to blame. They were handed a golden opportunity with WAR and fucked it up so badly I still can't really believe it. Whatever talent that studio had bled out of it a long time ago. Frankly, people should've seen it coming with Trials of Atlantis. Sometimes I think old-school DAoC was a fluke more than anything, and some of the crazy funny balance issues the game had give the ring of truth to that.Ishal said:Yeah culling is bad in GW2. Kinda wish I wasn't a 12 yr old when DAoC was in its prime. I hear that Mythic (or whats left of it) is now being directed to make app games by EA.
Sad :/
Maaan i remember the beginning for development for WAR it sounded like it would be amazing there was this one particular developer who was doing video blogs hyping it up and it was great and then...EA....yeaaaah. actually after the buyout that guy dissapearedBloatedGuppy said:It is sad, but Mythic has only themselves to blame. They were handed a golden opportunity with WAR and fucked it up so badly I still can't really believe it. Whatever talent that studio had bled out of it a long time ago. Frankly, people should've seen it coming with Trials of Atlantis. Sometimes I think old-school DAoC was a fluke more than anything, and some of the crazy funny balance issues the game had give the ring of truth to that.Ishal said:Yeah culling is bad in GW2. Kinda wish I wasn't a 12 yr old when DAoC was in its prime. I hear that Mythic (or whats left of it) is now being directed to make app games by EA.
Sad :/
Culling is atrocious. It's absolutely the worst imaginable solution to the question of lag. "Just make all the enemies invisible!" Well done, idiots.
You know, I welcome that perspective about DAoC, that it could have all just been a fluke. As I've said before in a previous topic I created and in other places, nearly every person I've talked to that loves DAoC treats as the best experience ever. It was to be heralded as the crowning achievement in all of PC gaming, its coming had been foretold in ancient prophecies and its PvP was the work of divine providence. When I go to the wiki page about it all I see is so many classes and potential for bad balancing..but I guess that didn't really matter in the long run the way I hear people talk. It seems to me that when I hear the ex-DAoCers talk about Warhammer they admit that it was utter crap, but they do so without the bitter hatred and contempt they would spew toward any other game, this is no doubt evidence of their loyalty to Mythic. I've been a part of the Dark Souls community for a while now and I've seen my share of douchebaggery and elitism there. I'm also a brony..and I've seen the worst that community has to offer. This past year I've been in and out of so many communities and gaming culture hubs it makes my head spin. AND YET, out of all of them, I've seen no bigger amount of hate, contempt, and TRUE elitism then what I've seen in the MMO PvP crowd..and the worst of them always count themselves among the ex Warhammer & DAoC players. This of course is just anecdotal, and Guppy you don't seem to be that way.. its like you said in a post a while back, "welcome to world of MMO's" right?BloatedGuppy said:It is sad, but Mythic has only themselves to blame. They were handed a golden opportunity with WAR and fucked it up so badly I still can't really believe it. Whatever talent that studio had bled out of it a long time ago. Frankly, people should've seen it coming with Trials of Atlantis. Sometimes I think old-school DAoC was a fluke more than anything, and some of the crazy funny balance issues the game had give the ring of truth to that.Ishal said:Yeah culling is bad in GW2. Kinda wish I wasn't a 12 yr old when DAoC was in its prime. I hear that Mythic (or whats left of it) is now being directed to make app games by EA.
Sad :/
Culling is atrocious. It's absolutely the worst imaginable solution to the question of lag. "Just make all the enemies invisible!" Well done, idiots.
I've seen this reaction to DAoC fans before, most prominently in the GW2 community (likely due to the similarities), and I think it's a combination of the natural elitism that propagates in the PvP community combined with the "Back in the Day" condescension older gamers sometimes indulge in. DAoC was an excellent game, but it was an excellent game for its time. No one would stand for it today. The balance issues alone would be disastrous. Snipers one shotting people from stealth, assassins getting up to 95% dodge and taking out entire groups, AoE stun...and then the RA's went in. It was essentially a broken game. But it's all contextual, right? There was nothing like it back then. And there was nothing ELSE like it for a long, long time...really until WAR came out (and was even more broken, in some more sadly fundamental ways that couldn't be fixed by balancing). That's resulting in DAoC being lionized to some extent, in much the same way we are starting to lionize EVE. When a game exists in a vacuum with no meaningful competition in its sub genre, it's easy to look at it as being better than it is, and gloss over its defects in favor of raining praise on its merits.Ishal said:You know, I welcome that perspective about DAoC, that it could have all just been a fluke. As I've said before in a previous topic I created and in other places, nearly every person I've talked to that loves DAoC treats as the best experience ever. It was to be heralded as the crowning achievement in all of PC gaming, its coming had been foretold in ancient prophecies and its PvP was the work of divine providence. When I go to the wiki page about it all I see is so many classes and potential for bad balancing..but I guess that didn't really matter in the long run the way I hear people talk. It seems to me that when I hear the ex-DAoCers talk about Warhammer they admit that it was utter crap, but they do so without the bitter hatred and contempt they would spew toward any other game, this is no doubt evidence of their loyalty to Mythic. I've been a part of the Dark Souls community for a while now and I've seen my share of douchebaggery and elitism there. I'm also a brony..and I've seen the worst that community has to offer. This past year I've been in and out of so many communities and gaming culture hubs it makes my head spin. AND YET, out of all of them, I've seen no bigger amount of hate, contempt, and TRUE elitism then what I've seen in the MMO PvP crowd..and the worst of them always count themselves among the ex Warhammer & DAoC players. This of course is just anecdotal, and Guppy you don't seem to be that way.. its like you said in a post a while back, "welcome to world of MMO's" right?
Arena Net has shown a frustrating inability to decide where their priorities lay. They're running around chasing every demographic, alienating each in turn. This kind of grab-all strategy isn't going to work for anyone until WoW is a few years older. And honestly, in an increasingly fragmented market with more and more FTP options cropping up every day, trying to be all things to all men is kind of stupid. WvWvW was one of their biggest selling points. Reducing it to a glitchy afterthought while they focus on seasonal events and adding content to an already content heavy game is just foolish.Ishal said:WvW has been stated repeatedly to not be on top of the list of priorities.
What ruined PvP in WoW was Resilience.Bertylicious said:I have heard it said that PvP ruined WoW because it meant they had to do more to homogenise the different classes, factions and game mechanics (like HP and such) for PvP.
What do y'all reckon to that?
WoW's problem is it was designed purely pve , the first battlegrounds didnt turn up till well after release and then blizzard decided to make it an esport. so we have a game which wasnt designed with it in mind riddled with overpowered stupid stuff in pvp like the rogue class and then instead of focus on things like team based objective pvp they tried to focus on arena which is the worst possible fit.Bertylicious said:I have heard it said that PvP ruined WoW because it meant they had to do more to homogenise the different classes, factions and game mechanics (like HP and such) for PvP.
What do y'all reckon to that?