I'll probably get crap this for this, but I dig Tidus and Yuna's romance arc in Final Fantasy X. Regardless of one's feelings on that game series, that entry in particular, or either of those characters in particular, I assert that the romance sub-plot just works well. It's believable. It's not at all perfect-storybook-romance like you often see in video games. It's not the emotionally-detached-dude being brought out of his shell by manic-pixie-dream-girl that infects western cinema, anime/manga, and Final Fantasy VIII. It has interesting twists and misdirection. And it has an effecting, bittersweet end.
I love FFX with every fiber of my being so you are not alone in liking Tidus and Yuna. Fuck the haters man. Tho I have no idea what you mean by a bittersweet ending. Whenever I play FF X as soon as I am finished I will watch the secret ending of X-2. What can I say, I love happy endings.
I also have a soft spot for Zidane and Garnet but then FF IX is one of my favorite games of all time so I am a little bised.
I live in a perceived reality where X-2 doesn't exist. In my mind, the story ends when the credits of FFX roll. It's bittersweet because the big bad is defeated and world is saved, but it came at the cost of Auron, who had no place in the new world, and Tidus, who resolved to find a way to save Yuna's life, ended up having to give up his own...sort of. That's bittersweet and powerful.
I'm not a FFX-2 hater. I played it. I got the 100% and the perfect endings. I mostly enjoyed the game. And seeing a happy ending for Tidus and Yuna was nice. In hindsight though, I prefer to think of FFX as standing alone. I think that that makes the story better.
I'll probably get crap this for this, but I dig Tidus and Yuna's romance arc in Final Fantasy X. Regardless of one's feelings on that game series, that entry in particular, or either of those characters in particular, I assert that the romance sub-plot just works well. It's believable. It's not at all perfect-storybook-romance like you often see in video games. It's not the emotionally-detached-dude being brought out of his shell by manic-pixie-dream-girl that infects western cinema, anime/manga, and Final Fantasy VIII. It has interesting twists and misdirection. And it has an effecting, bittersweet end.
Seconded! If anything, Tidus is the manic pixie dream (ha!) boy, but unlike most it also has a practical purpose in the story- getting Yuna to take a closer look at the teachings of Yevon and all that she's sacrificing.
Also, the Prince of Persia and Princess Farah. Another one that accomplishes something besides getting the Prince laid. Even in the third game when she has been robbed of her memory of previous events, she still acts as his shoulder angel at a time when he needs one badly to counterbalance the Dark Prince. 'Seven years, and nothing's changed.'
How could I forget about the Sands of Time trilogy?! I respond to your second with my own. That was one of my favorite video game stories ever! Yes, even the second one. We could have done without the nu metal Hot Topic treatment, yes, but even still, the plot of the second was interesting and elements from the first and second came together to pay off in a big way in the third.
Seeing the Prince and Farrah banter their way to romance in the first and then seeing them come together in the third where he has (and the player has) all these memories of everything that's happened in the story so far, but she doesn't remember anything...yeah, that created a complex character-relationship-dynamic that one hardly ever sees. And yeah, that final line in Two Thrones when he is about recount his entire quest to her, and he starts it the same way he started his storytelling-frame in the first, "Most people see time as a river...but I have seen the true face of time..." Oh man! It blows my mind a little every time.
I agree with Aeris still carrying a torch for Zack and largely projecting that onto Cloud. I think Tifa and Cloud are the better pairing as well but as far as I was aware they did not technically get together. What does it change? please tell me I must know so I can replay and look for it lol.
As I understand, if Tifa has enough "affection points," the dialog when her and Cloud are alone together on the eve of the final battle is different. They do a lot more talking, and while they don't outright declare their love, it's strongly implied. The standard dialog arguably paints more of a picture of "they're really good friends and they've been through a lot together."
EDIT: Here's a vid with both versions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afuKSfF1rHg
I'll probably get crap this for this, but I dig Tidus and Yuna's romance arc in Final Fantasy X. Regardless of one's feelings on that game series, that entry in particular, or either of those characters in particular, I assert that the romance sub-plot just works well. It's believable. It's not at all perfect-storybook-romance like you often see in video games. It's not the emotionally-detached-dude being brought out of his shell by manic-pixie-dream-girl that infects western cinema, anime/manga, and Final Fantasy VIII. It has interesting twists and misdirection. And it has an effecting, bittersweet end.
Yep, I was ninja'd and I agree with you.
Now that I think about it, one of the good things about this particular romance was that it changed both parties for the better: Tidus stopped being self-centered egoist, while Yuna has grown some backbone to say good old fationed "screw you" to old traditions and to fight Sin to actually defeat it for good.
Also, it was actually tragic romance story, because
Tidus isn't even alive: he is just a memory, a spectre, summoned by Faith
There is no goddamn way they could've been together. It was either saving their relationship or defeating Sin (I am not counting obviously non-cannon FFX-2 and whatever this bullshit audio-diary we got in HD collection).
My only gripe with this love story is that it, well, kind of didn't start quite naturally. "I just want him to be by my side" came a bit out of nowhere. But meh, lets just call it love at first sight.
Frankly, I don't think there is one. Video games, to put it plainly, just suck at romance. Even if you got the best romance writers in the world working on a game, I think the nature of video games themselves ensures that it won't be well-received by most players. This is because, when it all comes down to it, there are really only two ways to depict romance in a video game:
1. The first is what I call the "cinematic" method. Here, romance is essentially forced on the player. The story dictates that the protagonist falls in love with their love interest, and there's nothing they can do about it. Examples include most Final Fantasy games with romance in them. The obvious drawback to this is that player agency is removed and the whole romance can appear tacked-on and unnecessary.
2. The second is what I call the "Bioware" method. Here, romance is essentially something the player can "win" from certain NPCs if they say the "right" things or make the "right" choices. This often comes across as a shallow multiple-choice test with some cheesy dialogue or a cutscene of dry-humping as a reward. It also often involves NPCs the player has only recently met and yet somehow fall head-over-heels for them, which feels incredibly immersion-breaking and too player-centric to me. Sometimes, this whole mechanic can create some really galling gameplay-story segregation. In Dragon Age: Origins, you can increase NPC's "approval" by buying them gifts. And yes, if their "approval" gets high enough, you can romance them. I found this whole mechanic eerily similar to prostitution. Not saying that prostitution itself is a bad thing, but for a game that wanted me to believe that this was "true wuv", that whole thing seriously undermined it.
I can honestly say that I wouldn't mind if no video game ever tried to depict romance ever again. Games just aren't the right medium for it.
Though we all know that's a lie. That's like saying film, literature, theater, etc are the wrong medium for love stories because of some bad ones depicted. It's a lazy, narrow-minded argument. In fact, it's very similar to saying "Romance? Ew, icky!" which too many game writers already have by default. Gaming (especially Western gaming) seriously needs to get over its fear of cooties.
As for the best love stories in gaming, there is one at the top of the list: Fei and Elly from Xenogears. Bar none. It's an epic tale spread across the ages with interesting characters and a grand conclusion. Fei literally KILLS GOD for her.
Except video games are the only medium in which the player is (supposedly) in-control. Something as serious and significant as romance is not something that should be forced on the player, especially since romance requires willing participants. Since the protagonist in most games is supposed to represent the player, forcing a romance on them is unlikely to make them appreciate it.
Overly cynical? Maybe. Wrong? I don't claim that it's "right" or "wrong".
And 2 depends on the game, at least in Inquisition you don't "win" shit from romance, there's no ingame reward outside something you can get just as easily (and much graphically) from any porn site so it's down to what the player want with many options depending on his.
I haven't played Inquisition (lost interest in DA after the first one), but that sounds pretty much like how it worked in Origins. I don't see how any game can make "Press X to have sex/fall in love" acceptable to me, except maybe if they're mocking the whole premise to begin with (like what Saints Row 4 did).
And if romance isn't fit to gaming we go back to the "games are only about violence", and with the amount of examples here in this thread of both types you listed we can easily see your argument is flawed.
I don't see what violence in games has to do with this. I know that there are many gamers who do like romances in games. I used to be regular on the Bioware forums, and the number of obsessed (and frankly, borderline-crazy) "waifu" posters there was a big reason I left. The "examples of both types" in this thread does not prove my argument is flawed. It just proves that some people here have very low standards for "romance" in games.
Well, someone else already gave you the video. Basically, in one Cloud is much more open, and there's more dialogue. Their whole arc up to that point was that they had feelings for one another, but couldn't say anything. That's what happened at the Gold Saucer. Then Tifa says that there are ways to show the way you feel without words. I've heard people argue that this means they have sex. It's not impossible, but I think it's a stretch. I think it's referring to everything they did for one another, such as Tifa helping Cloud during his mako poisoning condition. They then have a more intimate scene outside the Highwind, where they spend what they believe will be their last night together. They don't think anyone will come back, and they expect to be killed by Sephiroth. In this version Cloud moves past his grief, and moves on with his life with Tifa.
In the other version Cloud gives her the cold shoulder. He's clearly still grieving for Aerith, but he believes he'll be able to see her again one day in the Life Stream. In this version he humors Tifa, and lets her have her one moment, but he's clearly not interested.
I'll probably get crap this for this, but I dig Tidus and Yuna's romance arc in Final Fantasy X. Regardless of one's feelings on that game series, that entry in particular, or either of those characters in particular, I assert that the romance sub-plot just works well. It's believable. It's not at all perfect-storybook-romance like you often see in video games. It's not the emotionally-detached-dude being brought out of his shell by manic-pixie-dream-girl that infects western cinema, anime/manga, and Final Fantasy VIII. It has interesting twists and misdirection. And it has an effecting, bittersweet end.
I love FFX with every fiber of my being so you are not alone in liking Tidus and Yuna. Fuck the haters man. Tho I have no idea what you mean by a bittersweet ending. Whenever I play FF X as soon as I am finished I will watch the secret ending of X-2. What can I say, I love happy endings.
I also have a soft spot for Zidane and Garnet but then FF IX is one of my favorite games of all time so I am a little bised.
I live in a perceived reality where X-2 doesn't exist. In my mind, the story ends when the credits of FFX roll. It's bittersweet because the big bad is defeated and world is saved, but it came at the cost of Auron, who had no place in the new world, and Tidus, who resolved to find a way to save Yuna's life, ended up having to give up his own...sort of. That's bittersweet and powerful.
I'm not a FFX-2 hater. I played it. I got the 100% and the perfect endings. I mostly enjoyed the game. And seeing a happy ending for Tidus and Yuna was nice. In hindsight though, I prefer to think of FFX as standing alone. I think that that makes the story better.
Hell in my head X-2 dosen't exsist. I never play the damn thing because gameplay aside I think it is bad beyond words but as I said I still watch the ending after each time I beat X. But I can understand why you like X as it is I have juet never been a fan of bittersweet endings. To each their own.
I'll probably get crap this for this, but I dig Tidus and Yuna's romance arc in Final Fantasy X. Regardless of one's feelings on that game series, that entry in particular, or either of those characters in particular, I assert that the romance sub-plot just works well. It's believable. It's not at all perfect-storybook-romance like you often see in video games. It's not the emotionally-detached-dude being brought out of his shell by manic-pixie-dream-girl that infects western cinema, anime/manga, and Final Fantasy VIII. It has interesting twists and misdirection. And it has an effecting, bittersweet end.
Yep, I was ninja'd and I agree with you.
Now that I think about it, one of the good things about this particular romance was that it changed both parties for the better: Tidus stopped being self-centered egoist, while Yuna has grown some backbone to say good old fationed "screw you" to old traditions and to fight Sin to actually defeat it for good.
Also, it was actually tragic romance story, because
Tidus isn't even alive: he is just a memory, a spectre, summoned by Faith
There is no goddamn way they could've been together. It was either saving their relationship or defeating Sin (I am not counting obviously non-cannon FFX-2 and whatever this bullshit audio-diary we got in HD collection).
My only gripe with this love story is that it, well, kind of didn't start quite naturally. "I just want him to be by my side" came a bit out of nowhere. But meh, lets just call it love at first sight.
Yeah, I don't accept X-2 as canon in my mind either. Not is it...well, it's X-2, but it actually undermines the effectiveness of X's story, particularly the romance sub-plot.
In Yuna's sphere flashback we learn that Yuna had actually fallen for Tidus very early on; way before the whole Seymour marriage proposal sub-plot. So yeah, she was probably enamored at first sight. Then fell for him quickly. Then it's possible that one doesn't know for sure what her feelings are until the kissing scene.
Jackie and Jenny in The Darkness, probably the most natural romance I've come across in a game. In what other game can you just sit with your girlfriend and watch a movie in her new apartment.
Shout out to The Prince and Farrah, although I like The (other) Prince and Elika a bit more from 2008 PoP.
1. But most gamers do like their stories to be more than "dude kills everyone" and are very willing for a bigger narrative, also except in "create you character" games the protagonist almost never represent the player, some people might think that, but when I play Valkyria Chronicles I don't see myself as a bug enthusiast (though Alicia is more of a protagonist in the game). Or alternatively a guy with amnesia and a giant sword.
You might not like romance but most of the gaming culture does accept it, you are in the minority.
I never said they didn't. I just don't want that "bigger narrative" to include romance.
Unless the developers themselves say otherwise, I assume every game protagonist is supposed to represent the player. After all, we're not only following them, we're playing as them.
I know I'm in the minority. My time on the Bioware forums was enough to tell me that.
2. I hate the "press X to fall in love" joke, that's a terrible way of summing it up There is a past to the characters and personality, if you are not mature enough to get interested in it and just want boning go to a porn site.
As long as "romance" in a game can be reduced to a few button-presses, the joke remains relevant and accurate. It's irrelevant to me how deep or fleshed-out two characters are. If they just met a few days ago and are suddenly soul-mates even though they've had about three conversations together that I've seen, don't expect me to see that as "true love".
And I find it hilarious you imply I'm "immature" if I don't like the way video games depict romance. The immaturity of how video games depict romance is a big reason why I loathe it so much.
3. If you don't like something because of the fandom it's not the developers fault, and again you are the minority, love stories don't need to be complex sagas to be genuine.
I'd never loathe something in games just because of how its fans behave (hell, if that were true, I couldn't be a fan of pretty much anything in gaming, hehe). I've made it very clear I loathe romance in video games on its own merits. I was only referring to those waifu-obsessed weirdos to show I've long been aware that Bioware's version of romance has its fans.
I'm also perplexed by your use of the word "genuine". No fictional love story is "genuine". I don't know that's supposed to mean in this context.
Well, someone else already gave you the video. Basically, in one Cloud is much more open, and there's more dialogue. Their whole arc up to that point was that they had feelings for one another, but couldn't say anything. That's what happened at the Gold Saucer. Then Tifa says that there are ways to show the way you feel without words. I've heard people argue that this means they have sex. It's not impossible, but I think it's a stretch. I think it's referring to everything they did for one another, such as Tifa helping Cloud during his mako poisoning condition. They then have a more intimate scene outside the Highwind, where they spend what they believe will be their last night together. They don't think anyone will come back, and they expect to be killed by Sephiroth. In this version Cloud moves past his grief, and moves on with his life with Tifa.
In the other version Cloud gives her the cold shoulder. He's clearly still grieving for Aerith, but he believes he'll be able to see her again one day in the Life Stream. In this version he humors Tifa, and lets her have her one moment, but he's clearly not interested.
I barely remember the low affection one although I must have got it at least 3 times because I have had Aeris, Yuffie and no one as a date at the gold saucer before. The other 7 I have had Tifa so I have seen the high affection one much more and must have thought it was the de facto one. Still learnin stuff about this game after all this time lol.
I still feel it is a bit ambiguous though which to be honest I kinda like its definitely clear they have feelings for each other just not exactly how far it goes at least on Clouds end anyway as its pretty clear throughout the game that Tifa cares about Cloud probably more than anyone. It definitely could be argued they are together though especially from the high affection one.
A little off topic but I hope Tifa gets into the new Dissidia game and possibly a third FFVII character then I can make a proper team .
I wasnt going to mention VNs but I though Saya no Uta had a fantastic romance story both horrific and beautiful in equal measure and it was handled excellently. Its also very different to what you probably expect of a romance. If you dont have a strong aversion to reading and dont have a very weak stomach I recommend checking it out. Its much more book than a game though so not really sure how it counts in regard to this thread. The romance is also essential to the story although that is not immediately clear.
I replayed FF7 recently with my little sister, and I can't believe how much detail they inserted, from the battle system to the plot. I had no idea how useful Enemy Skill was, for instance, and it completely changed the way I played the game. Not to mention how easy it would be to miss things like Vincent Valentine, or Professor Gasts side story. People complain about the title, but I wish more games were dripping with this much detail. Most see fit to offer you the full plot on a silver platter.
I watched a Lets Play of Saya No Uta, since I couldn't find it anywhere to buy, and I refuse to use pirate bay. It was very unique, Urobuchi has a pretty sick mind, haha.
Commander Shepard and Morinth. Of all the characters Shepard can have a relationship with, Morinth is the only one who loves them enough to spare them from Mass Effect 3.
Well I don't know bout the rest of you, Skyrim had some bitchin' romance. Put on the amulet of Mara and prepare yourself for the greatest love story ever told.
Alright, that's clearly a joke. Marriage in Skyrim exists just to earn free money and another merchant. My actual ones would be... a majority of Bioware's romances. To name a few; MaleWardenXMorrigan, MaleShepXTali, MaleKnightXBastilla, and ShepXLiara. No other games have really nailed a romance aspect for me. Most just feel kinda lame and forced.
There really aren't that many romance plots are there? JRPG's always seem to have one, but they're often pretty shallow. Bioware throws in a bunch of varying quality.
I guess I'd have to go with Tidus and Yuna as well. The fact that it was one of the earliest voiced and animated video game romance plots probably helps that a little bit.
I feel like there's one or two more good ones that haven't been mentioned but I can't remember them.
I'll probably get crap this for this, but I dig Tidus and Yuna's romance arc in Final Fantasy X. Regardless of one's feelings on that game series, that entry in particular, or either of those characters in particular, I assert that the romance sub-plot just works well. It's believable. It's not at all perfect-storybook-romance like you often see in video games. It's not the emotionally-detached-dude being brought out of his shell by manic-pixie-dream-girl that infects western cinema, anime/manga, and Final Fantasy VIII. It has interesting twists and misdirection. And it has an effecting, bittersweet end.
Seconded. I loved that romance. It was paced perfectly, and had just enough cute moments between the two that when they finally kissed, it felt believable. And the scene that followed was wonderful
For another, I'll say Junpei and Akane from 999: 9 Hours, 9 Persons, 9 Doors. Not only is it well-written and cute throughout the game despite falling under the 'childhood friend' cliche, it isn't superfluous; rather, it ends up being a central and integral part of the plot in the end.
At the climax of the True Ending, Akane turns out to have been the mastermind behind the entire death game the characters have been thrown into, but her motives are not what you expect. Rather than anything similar to what you would see from something like 'Saw', she is instead trying to save her 12 year old self in the past who has been thrust into a similar situation to Junpei, and thanks to their feelings for each other, through the power of love and a LOT of complicated science-babble that would take hours to explain, they are able to form a temporal telepathic connection to each other that lets them talk one-to-one across time, through which Junpei manages to help her solve the puzzle that will save her from being incinerated. That combined with the music and visuals had me tearing up a bit as I got through that part of the game, and solidified it as one of my favorite games of all time
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