Best way to get better at fighting games?
- Thread starter MoltenSilver
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This is definitely the hardest part when starting out so I will try and help but ultimately its going to come down to you in the end I learnt just by playing 100s of hours of Street Fighter 2 against the comp and friends and having fun and finding out what worked where.MoltenSilver said:
I have watched the vid and I will say firstly that I have seen worse players than yourself now onto the critiquing part.
1)You need to work on your defence you are blocking stuff but you are getting opened up to easily.
2)Secondly you are giving them way to much space to let them do what they want with you I dont play Painwheel but I am pretty sure she is rushdown centric so you need to stay in their face more and apply pressure short jabs and stuff alternating between high and low or even flying overheads if you can and then one hits bam into a short combo and repeat.
3)Some of the stuff you are doing is mega unsafe and sure enough they just block/dodge it and then punish your ass especially things like your whiffed moves and your hail mary specials. Look back on your matches and see what moves are getting you punished and then dont use them unless you can hit confirm i.e like the special as using it from near a fullscreen distance gives them all the time in the world to block/dodge and then punish.
4)You are punishing which is good but try and learn their unsafe moves and what you can punish with you are getting some punishes but then missing the next hit.
5)Learn a very simple combo usually something like l.p, m.p and then H.P into special works (or even replace punches with kicks) nothing fancy but it will up your damage a lot as now you will get 3 or 4 hits every time you get in instead of one or two which you seem to be getting now. In Skullgirls I believe every character can hit twice with their light move so you can hit confirm easier.
The hitstun on this game can seen excessive sometimes buts thats the game and it rewards offense. You do seem to be learning the basics even if you dont feel you are but they take a long time just keep at it.
I am not a pro or expert player but the one thing that was obvious to me was you were to stationary a target as I said in point 2 you were making things to easy for them you could have won that Fortune fight at the beginning if you had moved a bit more and capitalised on hits better. As for the Parasoul fight that person knew what was up so I dont think you could have done much there yet just take it as a learning experience.
Lastly why arent you using Squigly? she awesome
Obviously, as you yourself noted, you need to improve your execution. QCF, QCB, down and back charges should be the motions where you start practicing.
Another important thing to be mindful of is your defense. Often you will hear the classic "The best defense is a good offense" (or similar sentiments) parroted by people who forget that it only holds true if the following two conditions are fulfilled:
To practice this, begin by entering practice mode and set the dummy diffculty to hard/hardest (make sure the dummy isn't a grappler), and then just block everything they throw out at you - hold down-back hard and get comfortable with the blockstun (be aware of overheads though, they must be blocked high). After you have that stage down pat, continue by then standing neutrally and only hold back/down-back when the dummy throws out an attack at you. This stage will mainly teach you two things: How to block on reaction, and which attacks are easy/difficult to block. Next stage is where your offense and defense meet - where you learn to anti-air (AA) your opponent. Figure out which normals and specials work best at which ranges and learn to do them on reaction (if you want to pratice AAs exclusively, see if the training mode has a record/playback function and then record the dummy to jump forward).
Fourth stage (and we can think of this as the final beginner stage) is to learn how to punish the opponents blocked moves. First you need to figure out which moves are actually punishable on block, which can be done by checking out a frame data table on the web (Skullgirls´ characters´ frame data can be found on their specific pages here [http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Skullgirls], and here is a guide on how to read them [http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/106615/basic-frame-data-guide-for-newbies]), or by setting the dummy to "all block" (NOTE: This function will likely not be in effect if the dummy is on playback). This is where you get to use those fancy combos you have been working on (you will also learn which are practical, which work at what distance, etc.), reset spacing, knocking down the opponent, or more situational things such as getting out of the corner (or putting the enemy there!). Set it up, and get in/out of there and do some damage!
As for learning combos, keep in mind that there are other uses in learning them, most importantly getting aquainted and comfortable with the game and its engine. Think of it as moving into a new home and figuring out how to live in it.
Finally, here is Maj´s footsie handbook [http://sonichurricane.com/?page_id=1702] which will help you understand the mid-range game better. The blog has many other interesting strategy articles that you can check out too if you are curious. Also, read the comments to the articles as the author often elaborates on some of the more complex points in the articles there. Just don't try to apply all the theory to your game at once - work in the elements slowly but surely.
I'll check out the vid tomorrow, but I'll stick to commenting on the fundamentals only as (you may have figured from this post) I haven't played Skullgirls.
Another important thing to be mindful of is your defense. Often you will hear the classic "The best defense is a good offense" (or similar sentiments) parroted by people who forget that it only holds true if the following two conditions are fulfilled:
- 1. That you understand them both reasonably well (in this particular case; the offense and defense of your character of choice).
2. That you know how and when to turn your defense into offense.
To practice this, begin by entering practice mode and set the dummy diffculty to hard/hardest (make sure the dummy isn't a grappler), and then just block everything they throw out at you - hold down-back hard and get comfortable with the blockstun (be aware of overheads though, they must be blocked high). After you have that stage down pat, continue by then standing neutrally and only hold back/down-back when the dummy throws out an attack at you. This stage will mainly teach you two things: How to block on reaction, and which attacks are easy/difficult to block. Next stage is where your offense and defense meet - where you learn to anti-air (AA) your opponent. Figure out which normals and specials work best at which ranges and learn to do them on reaction (if you want to pratice AAs exclusively, see if the training mode has a record/playback function and then record the dummy to jump forward).
Fourth stage (and we can think of this as the final beginner stage) is to learn how to punish the opponents blocked moves. First you need to figure out which moves are actually punishable on block, which can be done by checking out a frame data table on the web (Skullgirls´ characters´ frame data can be found on their specific pages here [http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Skullgirls], and here is a guide on how to read them [http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/106615/basic-frame-data-guide-for-newbies]), or by setting the dummy to "all block" (NOTE: This function will likely not be in effect if the dummy is on playback). This is where you get to use those fancy combos you have been working on (you will also learn which are practical, which work at what distance, etc.), reset spacing, knocking down the opponent, or more situational things such as getting out of the corner (or putting the enemy there!). Set it up, and get in/out of there and do some damage!
As for learning combos, keep in mind that there are other uses in learning them, most importantly getting aquainted and comfortable with the game and its engine. Think of it as moving into a new home and figuring out how to live in it.
Finally, here is Maj´s footsie handbook [http://sonichurricane.com/?page_id=1702] which will help you understand the mid-range game better. The blog has many other interesting strategy articles that you can check out too if you are curious. Also, read the comments to the articles as the author often elaborates on some of the more complex points in the articles there. Just don't try to apply all the theory to your game at once - work in the elements slowly but surely.
I'll check out the vid tomorrow, but I'll stick to commenting on the fundamentals only as (you may have figured from this post) I haven't played Skullgirls.
? very few people online play like regular people? what does that mean? they are people just people who like playing the game. They will most likely play better than people that just pick up the the game as for OP combos well I dont think there is any in this game there were one touch death combos in the last build that I played and it was annoying as fuck when they got you in them but they were pretty hard to do so I had to grudgingly admire their execution, its not like they are just abusing a two button infinite.Cesar Rijo said:
As for just quitting if you cant win well that is terrible advice and pisses off everyone if you are going to quit when you are losing and cant see a way to win either soldier on or dont play at all, quitting just because you are being bodied is awful etiquette.
Maining characters just for asthetics isnt the best choice I agree but then again you have to choose a character you like I personally would rather lose with a character I like but who dosent fit my playstyle than win with one I dont but who does.
Look at what the pros do, and learn from their techniques. Don't copy their techniques, see what they do and see how they make it work for them and what makes it better than everything else.
This applies to all games with a multiplayer focus, though. I say the same about TF2.
Also, I'm similarly awful at Skullgirls. Squigly is my go to right now, even though she's not outstanding in any way, unlike Cerebella who has outstanding damage output or Peacock who has outstanding zoning.
This applies to all games with a multiplayer focus, though. I say the same about TF2.
Also, I'm similarly awful at Skullgirls. Squigly is my go to right now, even though she's not outstanding in any way, unlike Cerebella who has outstanding damage output or Peacock who has outstanding zoning.
I agree playing people of the same or ideally slightly better skill than yourself is the best way to play and the most fun. Its no fun losing to people who like you say do the same combo over and over but if you go online and play with randoms you will find people of varying skills. Quitting to someone who is obviously better than you is not good.Cesar Rijo said:
As for doing the same combos well many people have BnB combos so thats obviously what they will do on you if they can because they are usually optimised to an extent so why do anything else? especially if the other player cant deal with it, Skullgirls and Blazblue are pretty combos heavy games same with MvC3 they arent cheating by doing the same combo its part of the game and you have to deal with it if you cant just get better until you can.
If you wanted a game that makes you think about combos more choose DoA5 or by the looks of it the new KI game. As for execution I have seen people do multi one frame link combos on me in Skullgirls and I dont think there is plinking in this game so that was impressive for me because I know how hard it is to actually get what they just did to connect I dont think you appreciate how hard some of the stuff can be to do although its rare you see people of this skill I admit most do easier BnB combos and then corner combos.
Skullgirls dosent have an infinite to my knowledge unlike say Red Venom in MvC who was cheap as hell or many unpatched games like Tekken Tag or DoA5 which had very easy infinites that were broken as hell (thank god they patched them). But at the same time dont quit mid match if that happens you suck it up and maybe even do what they are doing to you back to them if you can.
Yeah anyway I would say never quit mid match no matter what happens I mean how long is a match anyway about 90 seconds max, usually a lot shorter especially if you are getting your arse handed to you. Also never trash talk someone especially someone who beat you legitimately and by that I mean outplayed you and didnt say rely on a glitch in the game. At the end of the day the winner played better even if that match was down to luck oh and a GG is nice after a great match even if you are salty as hell about what happened.
I read that part fine you obviously didnt understand my reply so I will say it simply dont quit a game EVER! its bad etiquette and makes you a sore loser you should be gracious in defeat and victory.Cesar Rijo said:
As for one comboers if all they really know is one combo then you should be able to defeat them pretty easily as they will just keep trying to open you up with the same thing so just block and punish it most combos in games for characters follow certain patterns anyway but better players have multiple ways into it as well as possible extensions for when they have meter or are in the corner.
These one combo people arent doing anything wrong if they can beat people reliably with doing a braindead combo over and over because the other person cant adapt why bother switching it up? I have beaten people in Street Figher 2 just by jumping kick and then sweeping them just out footsie them and repeat there is no way I should get away with that as its easily countered but its surprising how often it works and how much shit you get for it but its an easy win if they counter it then I have to find other ways in and start playing properly.
The fact they can land the combo means you are being opened up and basically outplayed nobody likes losing ofc and it can get annoying but thems the breaks.
Losing because of lag is much worse imo but again you still lost they played better in a crappy laggy environment than you did.
Trouble is most people find it easier to find excuses for their loses oh the lag was bad that move is OP their character is cheap etc but at the end of the day we all have access to the same stuff in game (DLC characters excluded) and so you only have yourself to blame if you lose.
This is correct. Practice time vs. playing other people time should be several orders of magnitude in favor of the former if you actually want to get any good.Cesar Rijo said:
This is also correct. This is also why I like games that have robust challenge and tutorial modes as it gives a quick tasting of each characters capabilities and style without having to invest a lot of time into figuring out a best fit. Think trying on lots of pairs of shoes to find the one that's most comfortable.
I sincerely hope this is trolling as otherwise this is just terribad scrubby "advice". Pretty much every fighting game utilizes some sort of combo system and in order to maximize ones chances of victory combos are kind of necessary. I genuinely feel sorry for the people who message me (most recently an issue in Injustice: Gods Among Us) complaining that all I do is the same combo over and over again when what they're completely failing to realize is that they're running into the same move over and over again and that said move has a limited number of progressions (even fewer if I want optimal set-ups and/or maximum damage).
In one sense you're correct. Most people, depending on what game we're talking about, who play online aren't truly playing the game. For example in Street Fighter IV it isn't uncommon to run into people who view dragon punches (invincible attacks but massively unsafe if blocked moves) as a reliable option for every situation because they're used to slight irregularities in the connection covering their ass if the move is blocked. The rest of what is being said here is just trolling/garbage. Quitting against someone who actually knows what they're doing doesn't accomplish anything other than wasting their time and proving that fighting games might not be your cup of tea.
Yeah, I'm not sure why so many games feel the need to include taunts. At least in Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 you can't cancel out of the taunt so if you taunt is poorly spaced or timed you're going to eat it.
I think you already said this.
ya kinda hard to not get hit with an single attack in some of the bad fighting games that let you pull off 10 or more hit combo's easily. I love Soul calibur and DOA at least for that, no long combo chains to really get stuck in.
But for me learning a good way it to go in training mode, Set the PC to hardest and try to do some damage to it for a while >.<
But for me learning a good way it to go in training mode, Set the PC to hardest and try to do some damage to it for a while >.<
In that case dont play if you cant handle loses, honestly what you are complaining about is moot you blame others tactics and characters for your loss rather than yourself which is a real crappy attitude and annoys everyone in any game the fact is they were better than you it seems you cant accept that.Cesar Rijo said:
I tend to see your attitude a lot by people who cant figure out why they are losing I mean it cant be their own lack of skill right it must be something else.
Basically I would say you arent as good as you think you are but instead of accepting that and trying to be get better you just want to play against people who play the way you think they should play so you may have a chance at winning which is not a good course if you want to get better.
Quitting a game in a strop is never a good thing to do in any game.
As for the trade of insults I think it has been pretty one sided on your part towards me its obvious from your recent comments that you dont take well to people opposing you so I can understand you dont take being thrashed at a game very well either because the other person wasnt playing the way you wanted.
Ragna and Jin are fine btw definitely not super op.
I second the advice that if you can't actually get good with a character you like, learn how to annoy all the other players and have fun griefing. I'm not great at FPSes by any means, but I'm mean with plasma grenades.
Well I just went looking on 4chan of all places and found this massive list of links that can help with a lot of fighting game terminology, techniques and more. http://pastebin.com/eMd8rh4G. Don't worry it's just a pastebin, it's not a virus or anything. Hell, as long as you don't act like a total idiot and ask nicely the fighting game general on 4chan's /vg/ will be able to give some good advice, seeing as a lot of them are incredibly hardcore.
I'm learning this myself too, but some key principles to look at is balance and deception. When you move to strike, you don't wanna keep getting baited, or led into their attack. All fighters you see this trend of jockey for position, bait the player, and then punish as hard as you can. In other words, build up defensive or vulnerable moment strategies. You wanna throw a wrench into their attack so you can start your own counters.MoltenSilver said:
If they come too fast, instead of trying to match them, be more offbeat and spontaneous, or learn moves that allow you to catch folks off guard or pick at their health in the most odd yet opportune ways, rather than ones that do most damage. Save the heavy damage moves for when they're staggered.
Its like this exercise fighting off an urge to just go at folks, and I struggle with it too. Even experts who pit bull and box you in, they still have to hang back and make your moves ineffective while doing so.
Ok, since you're saying that you're not trolling then I might suggest you leave this thread because your advice is flat out terrible.Cesar Rijo said:
I'm trying to focus on what you just said but you're not making it easy as my natural aversion to rages is a hard reflex to overcome AND the fact that what you appear to be describing here matches up with exactly zero fighting games in existence as far as I am aware. Maybe fighting games just aren't your thing.