Bethesda: Consoles to be the lead platform for Skyrim, aim to make it ?really accessible?

[MoNKeyYy]

The term 'get away from stats' makes me a little uneasy.

Agreed. I'm not even a hardcore PC gamer and this makes me uneasy. What's wrong with stats and interface? As long as it's relevent stats and a good interface it's fine! And time tested! And easy! And fun! And it bloody works! Well, as long as it doesn't look like EVE Online... *Shudders*

 

[Buizel91]

Saw the title and thought LOL this should be fun, Now to enter Flames R Us.

OT: doesn't bother me, my main gaming platform is the Xbox, so i still can't wait =D

Also people seem to forget Bethseda loves it's PC fans...i doubt the port will crap i honestly don't.

 

[neonsword13-ops]

Perfect time to play my first Elder Scrolls.

 

[Crazy_Man_42]

Yeah you can have improved graphics but that doesn't "dumbed down" a game you can still have a great game even with graphics that aren't the newest and greatest.

You *can*, but IMO, Skyrim is not looking to be that game. It's too early to tell for sure, but this new development is not promising in the least.

Yeah you have a little more control with the keyboard and mouse but that doesn't mean a game is "dumbed down" it just means you have a different way of controlling things with more buttons. Actually a console player would have to be smarter because he would have less buttons to work with and that would mean that he or she would have to do more for an action that a pc player can just hit a single button for.

Except that the developer has anticipated this, and in the spirit of being "More accessible", lowered the difficulty of aiming to account for this limitation.

Even of one of my favorite games, Metroid Prime, does this with auto-targeting and camera tracking because the controls would have been quite clunky on a Gamecube controller otherwise. Metroid Prime 2 genuinely much harder than the original, mainly because the environment works to counter these advantages (enemies are much harder to get an initial lock on, and the overall game is much darker or harder to see).

Traditional gamepads have genres where they are directly superior or feel more natural than a keyboard and mouse (notably, racing games and flight simulators), but first person titles are NOT one of those.

The absolute best example of this in action is the PC version of GTA3, Vice City, or San Andreas (the console and PC versions, apart from possible controller inputs, are identical).

Spoiler: The GTA Controller Experiment

First, acquire a USB 12 button controller (basically, a PS2 or Xbox 360 equivalent).
Next, use the keyboard and mouse to play through a few missions. Then start those missions over and swap to the controller.
You will find the following is always true:
1) It is significantly easier to aim firearms with the mouse (even against the lock-on feature. Why? Superior camera controls. You can instantly swing around and see all your targets rather than having to press the lock button rapid until you get to all of them)
2) It is significantly easier to drive well with the controller (for obvious reasons)

There are more mathematical explanations for why it works (it involves the maximum number of vectors and inputs that the player can be expected to reasonably control at any given time) but those are a beyond the necessary explanation required here.

Yeah the mouse and keyboard can be better for some genres and such but it still isn't a reason to say that a game is "dumbed down"

Me personally I favor the joystick for fps maybe because I have played more games using it then the mouse but I'm not going to say a game is dumbed down because it doesn't use my preferred controller. Most of this "dumbed down" stuff is mainly preferences that the PC players prefer like better graphics cards or the keyboard and mouse system and because this game won't have that mindset where everything has to be designed around the keyboard and mouse system this is what I think it all boils down to with this topic which is that the game devs aren't completely catering to the PC players whims. Which is selfish they should be making a game that can be easily accessible so that everyone can enjoy it. Game Devs are trying to make a fun experience FOR EVERYONE.

Also have you people even played this game on the PC or console? I assuming no because it's not out yet.

Man this doom and gloom crap before a game is out is really annoying. Because whatever a dev says becomes an apocalypse on a forum and for what a couple of words someone said about the game their making. And you know so what if they are designing the game to be a little more friendly to the controller. They are trying to make it accessible and how do you really know that that means the PC version will suck huh what makes all of you PC players think that this game will suck because of a few words spoken by a dev.

 

[Irridium]

I don't care?

Mods will make everything better.

 

[RA92]

Even more 'streamlined' than Oblivion...?

*shakes head*

 

[Twilight_guy]

Discuss? PC gamers are a bunch of elitist pricks who will be upset by this. I really see no other reason why anyone would care what its developed for. On top of that the base-less accusation of "dumbed down" is getting on my nerves. What the hell does that even mean? Other then that... meh I don't really carer what they develop on PC and consoles are mostly the same.

Well....... first of all developing for consoles and porting over to PC, makes no sense.
Much more sense is made when it is developed for PC with consoles in mind, because then you avoid all the hardware isssues that come with different PC setups, dumbing down means that the game starts treating you like your an idiot, for example in morrowind you did not have a huge red arrow point where to go, sure it was much more comfortable in oblivion with a huge red arrow, but most of the time I did feel screaming stop showing me where to go, i can figure this out for myself, then i modded out the arrow and fast travel system and lived happily ever after until i realised that oblivion ultimately sucked compared to morrowind.

yes I am a PC elitist btw, proud of it infact, the witcher series FTW!!!!! I'm out.

Except it does. All games are developed on PCs. Consoles have limited specs and thus encourage optimizations. PC games need optimizations too. Therefor developing it to run on a console means developing it to run well on PCs too. Yes, that means you don't address different PC set-ups but honestly nobody can account for the infinite combination of PC set-ups. If you get your working build to run on the PC before testing on the consoles, grats it runs on PCs. (nobody is going to go test dozens of graphics cards, different OSs, and different combinations of settings). Consoles and PCs are the same under the hood its just a matter of the software running them and how you use it. Consoles have the more limited hardware and thus are better to benchmark optimization. Working builds are developed on PCs and thus if the build works then it runs on PCs and if it runs on the test hardware, i.e. a consoles then it runs on a console. People are making a distinction that is arbitrary and asinine with PC vs. Console.

As for "dumbing down" everything that anyone has ever cited as an example has been an example of design decisions not something based on some limiting factor due to consoles or PC. "dumbing down" is a separate issue all together from console or PC and I hate to see people conflating the two. Complex games run on consoles simple games run on PC and vice versa.

I know people are entitled to their own opinions and what-not but all the fanboys are giving me a head-ache. Where is my anti-fanboy badge, I need some sparkles to crush.

 

[MolotoK]

I was planning to buy Skyrim even though I swore myself to never buy a Bethesda game again after what they did to the Fallout franchise. (Fallout 3 was not a proper sequel to Fallout 1&2)
I was even going to upgrade my PC's hardware just for Skyrim.

Now I'm going to wait till Skyrim is down to bargain price.
Publishers should stop complaining about low PC sales if all they give us are cheap ports.

 

[AgentBJ09]

Still buying my XBOX 360 and PC copies on Day 1, regardless.

Plus, what's the big deal? You can clearly see in the article...The lead producer on Skyrim said: ?We use the consoles as our lead SKU? So we develop towards the consoles and then porting to PC is usually not too bad actually.?

It makes sense to develop the controls for the console first, then the PC. Since controllers have less buttons, why not map the interface around that first, then mapping another for the PC after that.

 

[Nedoras]

From what I can tell, stats and their progression are still in the game. The demo they were showing off showed skill increases (block has reached 26, etc) and the player was made aware of it. At least that's what I think you guys mean by "stats". I'm quite sure they haven't "dumbed down the game", whatever the hell that means. After all, people keep mentioning that Oblivion was designed for the consoles yet I didn't notice any real difference between the PC version and the other two versions. Sure the game felt a bit more streamlined compared to Morrowind, but I still found it to be really damn fun. I have faith in Bethesda and I'm sure the PC port of Skyrim and the game itself will be just fine =)

 

[AWAR]

Thank you Bethesda for taking a huge dump on us PC gamers.
By the way I think they've already crossed the thin lines of RPG, Skyrim is just going to be like Dark Messiah of Might and Magic.

 

[Nemesis729]

This better not mean we're gonna get a crappy port on the PC, I haven't been able to play first person games on consoles since I started on PC so it's either PC or nothing as far as Skyrim goes :x, Well fingers crossed I suppose

 

[Soviet Steve]

I'd be annoyed by this but seeing how bad Oblivion was compared with Morrowind I stopped considering myself an elder scrolls fan back then. With the rate that this is going I wouldn't be surprised if ES6 is going to be a Michael Bay action movie with a quicktime event that doesn't have any influence on the plot somewhere around the halfway mark though.

 

[RobfromtheGulag]

What originally got me away from Morrowind back in the day was the combination of complexity and the lack of the typical graphics items, IE fancy looking sword attacks, monsters with crazy magic abilities.

Then I got a bit older and/or desperate and really liked Oblivion. I'm on board with the whole complexity bit now, but if they're removing that and not altering the other [pretty combat/animations] then this could be trouble.

 

[FallenTraveler]

that kinda sucks...

I'm sure the modding community will destroy any UI issues though.

actually, having seen it, the UI is quite nice.

i'm not too bothered as for one thing it'll mean i can surely run it

the xbox 360 is just a DirectX9 PC with a dual core 3.2GHz processor, an ATI HD38** series Graphics card, 512MB of memory and some funky bus work.

Yeah, I would buy it for 360 if I could get the pc mods, oh well though. I have seen the UI and I have no complaints, it looks alot smoother and easy to use. I love it myself.

 

[Choppaduel]

As for "dumbing down" everything that anyone has ever cited as an example has been an example of design decisions not something based on some limiting factor due to consoles or PC. "dumbing down" is a separate issue all together from console or PC and I hate to see people conflating the two. Complex games run on consoles simple games run on PC and vice versa.

What are you saying? That consoles are not limited to controllers, that I can plug a mouse and keyboard into my ps3 and be able to control gran turismo? or that I could plug a controller into my PC and be able to play civ 5?

Consoles have numerous limiting factors, control style is the most important. Many games are designed with the limitations of consoles, for example many console FPSs have some sort of auto-aim to compensate for the fact that you get more control from aiming with your wrist and fingers with a mouse than you do with your thumb on a stick. (I certainly find this to be the case)

Theres also the interface, something like Civ 5s interface cannot be transfered to a console controller, so the interface of any console rts must be limited, cut down, simplified, or "dumbed down."

It is possible to "dumb down" a game for consoles and it's often a necessity due to the limitations of the controller. However, it would be more accurate to call it simplifying, or consolizing rather than dumbing down.

It wouldn't be necessary, in most cases, if console games supported mouse and keyboard interfaces, but then no one would be able to complain.

As for the dumbing down of games like mass effect 2, I can't imagine anyone blaming that on the hardware. It was pitiful attempt to grab more of the market, specifically the gears of war market, however any gains they made in GoW players were offset by the loss of more traditional RPG players aka Bioware's former core demographic.

 

[Assassin Xaero]

I knew it was gonna suck. All the hype should have told you that...

 

[ZombieMonkey7]

OH NO! Well this game's garbage now

 

[Omnific One]

Umm... well it's because idiots like the posters on the comment section pirate the game. Don't jump on me, but it's true. People constantly talk about the PC version of Oblivion, but 90% (!) of the players purchased the game for consoles. That's why they've gone console.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Yeah the mouse and keyboard can be better for some genres and such but it still isn't a reason to say that a game is "dumbed down"

It is here, because a mouse simply makes for a much quicker and more precise camera control; which is paramount to making or breaking a first person experience. I cannot begin to describe how critical good camera controls are here. You can argue preference all you want, but the mouse will always allow for more agile/instantaneous responses than a thumbstick.

What I don't get is that despite every major console having USB support, extremely few developers create support for those controls as an option.

*snip*....devs aren't completely catering to the PC players whims. Which is selfish they should be making a game that can be easily accessible so that everyone can enjoy it. Game Devs are trying to make a fun experience FOR EVERYONE.

I would find that believable if Bethesda hadn't put out those horrible console-specific User Interfaces, or programmed the game to only run stably on a very small group of video cards in their last two major titles (Fallout 3 and Oblivion). Those games were made to run under stably under only one hardware profile: that of the Xbox 360.

The problem is that they aren't making the game equal for everyone; they HEAVILY favor console gamers. Fuck, that's what the guy flat out said in his interview! If their last games favored PC gamers at their core, I could take his statement as evening the playing field; but NEITHER Oblivion or Fallout 3 favored PC Gamers; their design favored console players!

The only bone that they throw PC gamers are the mods, which doesn't actually say anything about Bethesda's attitude towards them in their core game design (because they don't develop the mod content...obviously).

Also have you people even played this game on the PC or console? I assuming no because it's not out yet.

Obviously not.
My arguments are based on what I know about Bethesda's practices, and what they're claiming that they are changing (which means they are working from a baseline or standard of some sort).
I am always happy to be proven wrong when it means an improvement, but this announcement has no good news in it for the PC gamer. Not one bit.

Man this doom and gloom crap before a game is out is really annoying. Because whatever a dev says becomes an apocalypse on a forum and for what a couple of words someone said about the game their making. And you know so what if they are designing the game to be a little more friendly to the controller. They are trying to make it accessible and how do you really know that that means the PC version will suck huh what makes all of you PC players think that this game will suck because of a few words spoken by a dev.

Likewise, I'm really tired of people preemptively throwing "GOTY" claims everywhere without any real basis other than hype: They are literally acting like mindless fanboy sheep who are buying far too much into hype.

Sadly, I'm certain that it's exactly that hype that will land Skyrim GOTY anyway.

As for my obvious bias, it stems from my previous experiences:
Fallout 3 and Oblivion were two of the buggiest, most crash-prone games I ever owned (that really says something, coming from someone who played during the DOS/3.1 era of PC gaming), and Bethesda did close to NOTHING to help fix that. They were too busy making megabucks off of their 360 sales to even bother.
I am not exaggerating here: For every hour of gameplay in Fallout 3, I had 1.4 crashes. It crashed roughly every 25-40 minutes on an up-to-date gaming-quality PC. No other game I owned at the time did that except Oblivion, which crashed a bit less often.
Bethesda provided little support in terms of solutions. What does that tell me? That PC gaming doesn't mean dick to Bethesda except as a secondary market (at best).
If they don't care, then why the fuck should I?

Conversely, Morrowind actually *was* a game that Bethesda made for everyone. They had good user interfaces for each version, and provided a list of known bugs and solutions up-front (their list of supported video cards and specs was actually accurate). Their tech support and online community was very helpful.

However, after Oblivion, much of that vanished.
It's hard to remain optimistic after going through that.