Bethesda Doesn't Enjoy Being "Forced" into Mojang Lawsuit

[Siege_TF]

The biggest problems with Beth's claims are that the Elder Scrolls games are, by and large, refered to by their surnames; Morrowind and the like. Compare Star Wars movies, which are refered to as 'The First One, Empire Strikes Back, and Return Of The Jedi' with the 'Episode' bit only being used for Phantom Menace and it's sequels, if at all.

Unless you're a nerd.

Furthermore Scolls is simiply 'Scrolls' not 'The Scrolls', which The United States Patent and Trademark Office has overlooked when it stated that "the applicant has merely removed the term 'Elder'". It's The Elder Scrolls, not Elder Scrolls.
Either 'The' doesn't count, or there's something fishy going on...

 

[Rhaff]

"but if Bethesda does not protect its copyright, other companies could produce deliberately-confusing titles like The Eldest Scrolls: Skyrings and leave Bethesda with no legal recourse."

Nonsensical, that to let something vaguely remotely get a free pass means you will then be unable to pursue action against clearly compromising others... Lawyers just want to get paaaaaid!

That's complete bullshit, it makes it sound like they're being somehow compelled to sue Mojang, like Lady Liberty has a gun to their heads. They could just as easily ignore the fact the title of Mojang's game has a single word from their title. If someone actually did come up with a game title named Eldest Scrolls: Skrying, they would have an actual case. One word, a common ordinary word in the english language, does not copy-infringement make.

Not suing Mojang over Scrolls would not, in anyway, impact any future lawsuits against someone who used Eldest Scrolls.

Sorry, Bethesda, these excuses aren't helping you.

Though I'm still totally buying Skyrim

Both of you need to add the phrase 'Legal Precedent' to your vocabularies.

 

[The Virgo]

Forced? FORCED? Bethesda, when Notch challenged you guys to a game of, I think it was CS(?) and told you that if you won he would change the name, you could have played. It was a fair deal. However, YOU declined and now YOU say that you were "forced"?

Give me a fucking break! I hope you guys lose the case, which you will because there is a 0% logo resemblance between Notch's "Scrolls" game and "The Elder Scrolls" with the exception of the word "scrolls".

 

[LBraden]

Well, I am not going to read though 9 pages of replies here, but aside from the raging here guys, does anyone have any news over this?

I have seen the legal documents (it was posted on twitter a while ago) and their only claim is 2 people on a reply thread going "what Scrolls is only in alpha, then Bethesda better hurry up" "yeah LOL" sort .., when the headline was "MINECON ATTENDEES TO GET SCROLLS ALPHA KEY" and then a small preamble over the idea for scrolls.

So... yes this lawsuit is somewhat insane, yes the laws need changing, but for christs sake, no one who knows gaming will give a SHIT, we know that TESinsert random word here) and "Scrolls" are two different games, hell I would not be surprised to see a "The Endangered Snake: Oblivion" at some point being made

 

[Rack]

Nonsense. The trademark owners of "Black" has zero authority to pull "COD: Black Ops" from store shelves.

Mojang would have no authority to pull "The Elder Scrolls" games from shelves, and NOR DOES ZENIMAX have the authority to do the same to Mojang, as that is what THEY re demanding - what you are paranoid that Mojang could do. Zenimax is only able to threaten this with the full force of a legal team against a small understaffed indie upstart.

That's kind of the whole point except you can do this kind of shit with any size legal team. You won't win but that doesn't stop it being a son of a ***** for the poor sod on the receiving end.

 

[KarlMonster]

Here's the real problem.

I could release a bug-free game, with superior customer support, call it "The Elder Scrolls", and nobody would mistake it for a Bethesda product.

Yeah, I went there.

 

[theultimateend]

"We wanted to end things in a friendly way where we met them half-way," said Markus "Notch" Persson.

Ugh, no he did not, he offered to change it to "Scrolls: (insert subtitle)" which doesn't address the problem at all, Notch is being just as silly as Bethesda on this one

Actually trademarking a longer name would be better I think.

No, because it doesn't fix the issue, the scrolls part, and if anything it makes it worse, if they called it Scrolls: Eternia or something fantasy-ish like that, and if I didn't know about the actual scrolls game, I would think they were talking about an upcoming elder scrolls, since it's exactly how they title their games, but without the elder part

Ah.

Well I don't really care. This is mountains and molehills stuff.

I've never seen anyone get confused by video game titles that weren't like Chinese Bootleg spoofs. Or the 5 dollar bin at Best Buy.

Here's the real problem.

I could release a bug-free game, with superior customer support, call it "The Elder Scrolls", and nobody would mistake it for a Bethesda product.

Yeah, I went there.

Because it would be bug free but suck? Not sure where you went but it didn't really pan out in my head.

Bethesda games are so good that I'm willing to play them after they crash. I can't say that about basically any other game company or game series. If it crashes on me more than twice I'm generally done for a few years till its all patched up.

Both of you need to add the phrase 'Legal Precedent' to your vocabularies.

Awful big word .

How about just arguing from ignorance? That's what keeps the internet happy .

 

[DarthFennec]

Mojang's desired use of the word "scrolls" seems innocent enough, but if Bethesda does not protect its copyright, other companies could produce deliberately-confusing titles like The Eldest Scrolls: Skyrings and leave Bethesda with no legal recourse.

... wait, doesn't this already happen all the time anyway? This is basically a description of The Asylum's business model, take a blockbuster hit and change the name a tiny bit and hope people can't tell the difference. We have movies from that studio with names like Transmorphers and 2012: Ice Age and Snakes on a Train and Paranormal Entity and Mega Pirhana and The Terminators, just to name a few. You have to admit that changing The Elder Scrolls: Skyrim to The Eldest Scrolls: Skyrings is no more copyright infringing (maybe less so) as changing Battle: Los Angeles to Battle of Los Angeles, like how The Asylum has. Bethesda hardly has to worry about stopping a precedent because it's already been happening anyway. I'd tell Notch to just use a different name, but honestly there are no original names left, everything has already been used before somewhere ...

I hate copyright, I really do ... patents too ... if you have a cool concept it shouldn't be owned by you, it's a thought, it's an idea, and ideas are supposed to be shared throughout the community, not protected and held back by laws. If someone wants to do a remix of your song or make a derivative of your work or use your HUD design, you should let them, I mean how is it harmful in the least? It wouldn't hurt your image, because if the audience isn't completely moronic they will know the difference. It wouldn't hurt your profits unless the copy happens to be better than yours for whatever reason, and in that case that's some good healthy competition. If anything, I'd think it would be beneficial, free advertising and all that. Bargain bin game, someone picks it up, researches it, realizes it's based on a much better game they've never heard of, buys yours. But no, we have to go get the system involved so we can sue people and take their money, cause that's just how everything works now isn't it.

 

[Treblaine]

Nonsense. The trademark owners of "Black" has zero authority to pull "COD: Black Ops" from store shelves.

Mojang would have no authority to pull "The Elder Scrolls" games from shelves, and NOR DOES ZENIMAX have the authority to do the same to Mojang, as that is what THEY re demanding - what you are paranoid that Mojang could do. Zenimax is only able to threaten this with the full force of a legal team against a small understaffed indie upstart.

That's kind of the whole point except you can do this kind of shit with any size legal team. You won't win but that doesn't stop it being a son of a ***** for the poor sod on the receiving end.

You may not "need" a big legal team, but the only reason to file such a case would be if you have more legal muscle.

The thing is this hurt both sides just as much. But while for Zenimax is it a 1% of their revenue, it could end up costing 50% of Monjang's funds and cripple future operations.

 

[kasperbbs]

What Elder Scrolls FAN would confuse the two?

 

[GoodApprentice]

Really? Of all the injustices in the world that he could fight, this is the one that he's gonna spend his time and energy on. It's a word in the name of an unreleased game that no one knows anything about. It's meaningless. It's arrogant. It's the height of stupidity.

If he plans to continue to pursue this "noble" fight (rolls eyes), then he had better well shut the hell up with his constant complaining.

Personally, I think he should mature a bit, man-the-hell-up and offer a real compromise. He's acting like a little brat and not some moral crusader.

 

[risenbone]

Ok it's starting to make a bit more sence now. Basicly whats happened is the US patents office has said that scrolls infringes on elder scrolls trade mark so Bethsuda has to sue so others can't come along and use this as a legal presedent of them not protecting their trademark. They have to take it to court and lose so that the US patent office gets off both Mojang and Bethsudas' backs and both games can be released hence the courts being used are the Sweedish who it would seem are more likely to side with Mojang than an American court.

Long story short the only arseholes in this case would appear to be the beuracrats of the American patent and trademarks commision forsing the issue.

 

[tsunamizero02]

Notch should just change the title to "Scrolls or rolled up bits of parchment so I don't get sued". He's an indie developer; they're allowed to do weird stuff like that.

 

[Ziadaine_v1legacy]

Trademark Law is stupid. You want to trademark a phrase like Elder Scrolls fine, but then no-one can use any of the words in that phrase. Even though the constituent words are used in everyday language. No that's wrong.

Using this logic you now cannot name a game:
Gears
War
Bad
Company
Call
Duty
Elder
Scrolls
Grand
Theft
Auto
Need
Speed
etc

I could go on. Obviously it does not take long before most of the dictionary is gone.

I don't particularly blame Bethesda as they are doing what the law allows. This law needs reform quick as it is not moral to have ownership of commonly used English words. You make up a word, then fine. But otherwise hands off of corporate ownership of single words.

My new game shall be Gears of Duty: Theft within Company.

I await said lawsuit.

 

[SyphonX]

This is all bullshit.

No, the law isn't "clear in in this case". If it was clear, we wouldn't be at this stage. You think this is muddy? Try looking at book publishing and said book titling. Somehow, publishing companies seem to manage just fine without wasting absurd amounts of resources and time arguing and pointing out discrepancies in vague copyright laws.

I am much embarrassed when I have to be forced to observe this nonsense in gaming news. Very cringe-worthy. I wrinkle my eyes and down some more coffee every time I see this crap, hoping that it will just go away tomorrow.

 

[Fappy]

Thank God. A well written article that clearly explains the situation. I guarantee if Mojang wasn't incredibly famous right now for being the little developer that could we'd be seeing a lot less, "Well looks like I'm not buying Skyrim anymore! Bethesda sucks!"

 

[Turtleboy1017]

Jesus christ Notch.

Change the games name to Scriptures. Or Parchment. Or Papyrus. Or Pages. I don't give a fuck. Notch is just being an asshole at this point. "I tried to compromise gais, why won't those elitist big-shot legal teams listen to me?"

Notch is just being an idiot. His game is probably in the planning stages and he feels he NEEDS to win this case as an INDIE developer to show the BIG CORPORATIONS that he can't be bullied.

He IS a big corporation. And yet he still can't get game updates out worth shit.

His legions of fans have turned him into a joke.

EDIT: I'm bashing Notch too much. I'm probably just bitter he makes more money than me. The U.S patent office is the true criminal here. Also international trademarking laws. Whatever they are.

 

[Turtleboy1017]

This is all bullshit.

No, the law isn't "clear in in this case". If it was clear, we wouldn't be at this stage. You think this is muddy? Try looking at book publishing and said book titling. Somehow, publishing companies seem to manage just fine without wasting absurd amounts of resources and time arguing and pointing out discrepancies in vague copyright laws.

I am much embarrassed when I have to be forced to observe this nonsense in gaming news. Very cringe-worthy. I wrinkle my eyes and down some more coffee every time I see this crap, hoping that it will just go away tomorrow.

Read through the pages of comments. By page 4 you'll probably see things differently. If anything, Notch is the one who should be blamed for this whole thing. Read above.

 

[SyphonX]

Read through the pages of comments. By page 4 you'll probably see things differently. If anything, Notch is the one who should be blamed for this whole thing. Read above.

That is simply your opinion.

You completely glance over the fact that Zenimax/Bethesda are laying claim to the single word "Scrolls", when their actual trademark title is "The Elder Scrolls". It is an absurd waste of time, resources and is insulting that the filing exists in the first place.

Your hatred for Notch stems from the fact that you are shilling for the corporate angle, and you feel that no one should have any reason to ever challenge a corporation's absurdity. There seems to be a growing number of people that belong to a generation that sees corporate power as "absolute" and binding. That if you don't kowtow to their will, then it is simply "your fault" no matter what.

I am also aware of the patents, and legal obligations that the lawyers supposedly need to follow regardless if it is totally necessary. This doesn't change the fact that it is absurd and it needs to be interjected with common sense. The phrase, "If someone told you to jump off a bridge.." applies here.