Bethesda Doesn't Enjoy Being "Forced" into Mojang Lawsuit

[Royas]

Please, stop using trademark and copyright interchangeably in your articles. It's one or the other, and they are very very different. For example, in the US you can't lose the protection on your copyright by not enforcing it. You can, however, lose a trademark. Different critters, and after this article I have no idea which one we are actually looking at.

 

[JediMB]

So, as usual, the United States Patent and Trademark Office is completely retarded. If they're not supporting patent trolling/hoarding, they're deciding that a one-word videogame title is too close to a three-word videogame title.

copyright

copyright

copyright

copyright

copyright

Trademark, trademark, trademark, trademark and... trademark.

For this to be a copyright dispute, Mojang would have actually had to pirate/copy game resources that belong to Bethesda. (And it would probably turn into a plagiarism case?)

Bethesda isn't being forced into anything. Who pays these lawyers? On whose behalf is the suit filed? What a steaming loaf. Seems Bethesda is just another little EA corporate factory in the making.

To answer both your questions, Zenimax, the owners of Bethesda.

ZeniMax Media, the legal entity created around Bethesda... by Bethesda's founder.

 

[Spencer Petersen]

That's complete bullshit, it makes it sound like they're being somehow compelled to sue Mojang, like Lady Liberty has a gun to their heads. They could just as easily ignore the fact the title of Mojang's game has a single word from their title. If someone actually did come up with a game title named Eldest Scrolls: Skrying, they would have an actual case. One word, a common ordinary word in the english language, does not copy-infringement make.

Not suing Mojang over Scrolls would not, in anyway, impact any future lawsuits against someone who used Eldest Scrolls.

Sorry, Bethesda, these excuses aren't helping you.

Though I'm still totally buying Skyrim

If Notch gets his trademark unopposed, he can sue Bethesda for infringing on his trademark of "Scrolls", causing release delays for Skyrim and causing tons of problems for the franchise. Trademarks are disputed all the time, and if Notch wasn't such a fucking dick about the whole thing and actually tried to resolve it without dragging the world into it we wouldn't be wasting all this time and money.

 

[l3o2828]

Really, do you people even think an outsider will even look at these games?
And even if they did it would be great if the game was just called American Mc Mojang's Scrolls or something to differentiate it for the people who are dumb enough to buy a game only called ONE WORD of a four word title.
It's clearly not hard to differentiate them.

 

[AdmiralCheez]

I think the success of Minecraft has gone to Notch's head.

I understand that he wanted to protect his creations, but his trademark application for Scrolls really concerned me, going after everything from radio broadcasts to clothing lines. In the long run, he could have had legal right to sue anyone that tried to use "scrolls" in anything, including the Elder Scrolls.

Even though he's dropped the trademark application, he's been antagonistic the whole process, mocking the legal team over the internet (which is generally a bad idea). Even his proposal to add a subtitle to Scrolls just makes the confusion factor worse, since that's the format that Bethesda uses.

I actually think that the Zenimax people have no other choice, which is a shame for both sides. But that's what you get when you let bureaucracy run the world.

 

[JediMB]

Trademark Law is stupid. You want to trademark a phrase like Elder Scrolls fine, but then no-one can use any of the words in that phrase. Even though the constituent words are used in everyday language. No that's wrong.

Using this logic you now cannot name a game:
Gears
War
Bad
Company
Call
Duty
Elder
Scrolls
Grand
Theft
Auto
Need
Speed
etc

I could go on. Obviously it does not take long before most of the dictionary is gone.

I don't particularly blame Bethesda as they are doing what the law allows. This law needs reform quick as it is not moral to have ownership of commonly used English words. You make up a word, then fine. But otherwise hands off of corporate ownership of single words.

You can make games with those titles, but you cant trademark them for personal profit and expect to get away with it.

"GEARS OF WAR" is a registered trademark of Epic Games, Inc.

"GOD OF WAR" is a registered trademark of Sony Computer Entertainment of America Inc.

Those two are much closer than "The Elder Scrolls" and "Scrolls" are, but I don't recall any trademark disputes there.

 

[Actual]

No-one is going to be confused between the 2 products and by the wrong thing. Grandparents shopping for a gift will go into a Game store and pick up a boxed copy. People who want to buy Notch's Scrolls: Whateverhecallsit will be gamers who are already aware it exists and buy it from his website.

If Notch gets his trademark unopposed, he can sue Bethesda for infringing on his trademark of "Scrolls", causing release delays for Skyrim and causing tons of problems for the franchise. Trademarks are disputed all the time, and if Notch wasn't such a fucking dick about the whole thing and actually tried to resolve it without dragging the world into it we wouldn't be wasting all this time and money.

I'm not a Notch fanboy, I really really hate minecraft. But Notch did offer to drop his trademark completely and Bethesda are continuing the court case regardless, to force him to drop a trademark he's already dropped...

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/113450-Mojang-Offered-Up-Scrolls-Trademark-Bethsoft-Said-No

So that makes no sense. I don't know Notch but he does seem pretty confused by all this, I imagine he'd be happier if it all just went away.

http://penny-arcade.smugmug.com/photos/i-3tjGvxt/0/L/i-3tjGvxt-XL.jpg

 

[Palindromemordnilap_v1legacy]

I can accept protecting trademark and copyright...but that doesn't explain why the lawyers weren't put back in their cages when Notch agreed to compromise

 

[Qitz]

Love all the "Just do X Bethesda! Duh!" They can't. Trademark Laws are a ***** to deal with. If you ignore it too long your claim will be invalid and you can lose protection over it. Just look at the deal with the Fallout MMO that was thrown out because Bethesda waited too long to seek legal action.

Instead of bitching and moaning about "Mean ol' Zenimax is picking on poo' wittle Mojang" you should be complaining about the obtuse Trademark laws that cause disputes like these in the first place.

 

[JediMB]

I think the success of Minecraft has gone to Notch's head.

I think you're imagining things.

I understand that he wanted to protect his creations, but his trademark application for Scrolls really concerned me, going after everything from radio broadcasts to clothing lines. In the long run, he could have had legal right to sue anyone that tried to use "scrolls" in anything, including the Elder Scrolls.

The trademark application for Scrolls was an unwise move, but it was just something Mojang happened to do while they were already in the process of getting the trademark application for Minecraft in.

If they found themselves forced to either sue someone for infringing on the "Scrolls" trademark, or risk losing it, I'm confident they would have rather just dropped the trademark.

Even though he's dropped the trademark application, he's been antagonistic the whole process, mocking the legal team over the internet (which is generally a bad idea). Even his proposal to add a subtitle to Scrolls just makes the confusion factor worse, since that's the format that Bethesda uses.

Err... Notch hasn't been antagonistic. He's been trying to keep things light-hearted and not take the situation more seriously than is necessary.

I actually think that the Zenimax people have no other choice, which is a shame for both sides. But that's what you get when you let bureaucracy run the world.

If this article can be trusted, then the US Patent and Trademark office is once again to blame for legal idiocy within the videogame industry.

 

[teqrevisited]

Cases like this are just facepalm-worthy. If Mojang were making an open world RPG in a fantasy setting and calling it Scrolls then it would be plain for all to see.

Now, I have no knowledge of how trademark laws actually work but surely if their trademark is for "The Elder Scrolls" it shouldn't count if half of the phrase is missing? As far as I'm aware Activision isn't hounding the makers of Call of Juarez, again containing exactly half of a trademark of theirs.

I would feel sorry for the lawyers that agreed to take this case on if they weren't soulless and hideously overpaid.

 

[Lt. Vinciti]

So its Johnny Laws and not Bethesda/Mojang


If I was an asshole screaming BETHESDA IS EVIL I would feel bad....but shit will turn out well in the end....

Go on Zenimax...apologize...and buy Mojang you got the cash... jk

 

[Wieke]

So now it seems that, as Notch hoped [http://notch.tumblr.com/post/8519901309/bethesda-are-suing-us-heres-the-full-story] it's just lawyers being lawyers.

While it might seem unreasonable at first sight Bethesda's insistence to take this to court isn't that bad. They just don't want to create a potentially risky precedent that suggest they don't really want to enforce their trade mark. (Cause as defined by US law "Scrolls" and "The Elder Scrolls" is sufficiently similar to warrant a court case.)

At least that's how I'm interpreting this.

 

[w00tage]

Kinda cliched response but Bethesda if your not happy back out- your being mildly ridiculous from where Im standing.

Actually Bethesda can't, because of what was said right here:

Mojang's desired use of the word "scrolls" seems innocent enough, but if Bethesda does not protect its copyright, other companies could produce deliberately-confusing titles like The Eldest Scrolls: Skyrings and leave Bethesda with no legal recourse. "Failing to protect a trademark could be damaging to an owner's rights," said Angela Bozzuti, a trademark law attorney. "Not only could it result in actual consumer confusion, but it could also weaken the strength of the mark in the marketplace. Furthermore ... it will likely weaken [Bethesda's] mark and make protection difficult and limited."

It's completely true. If Bethesda lets Mojang use "Scrolls" with the same trademark idea, then people WILL use "Eldest Scrolls" or "Eldarian Scrolls" or "Scrolls of the Elders" and the courts would simply say "Well this started with Mojang, and you let HIM"

It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't.

A lot of people don't understand that 80% of the outcome of a court case is "What precedent is this going to cause?" It's a lot more complicated than "You're being a whiny ***** Bethesda!"

I don't see how you can say "the courts will say" with any certainty. Precedent can be used by either plaintiff or defendant. Bethesda's admittance that a single word (in common use in the industry) is common to both products does not mean a free pass to copycat their trademark. Bethesda can point out how said single word did not infringe their trademark and hold up the copycat title as an example that does.

This is straight-up a classic lawyer-driven lawsuit supported only by FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) sold to Bethesda's management as "sound legal advice". They even admit it openly here:

"Pete Hines, a VP at Bethesda, maintains that the lawsuit has nothing to do with the studio's creative team and everything to do with the legal technicalities of trademarks. "This is a business matter based on how trademark law works and it will continue to be dealt with by lawyers who understand it, not by me or our developers," he explained."

Right there. "We don't understand, but our lawyers do, so we will go ahead and sue the tiny indie developer".

I have an idea. You can walk through a Chinese market and actually buy pirated Bethesda games for a couple of bucks. That's not just a potential trademark violation, that's gross theft of all of Bethesda's IP for those games. So why doesn't Bethesda sue some Chinese game pirates instead of Mojang?

 

[baker80]

I don't really blame Bethesda. Trademark law really is as stupid as they say and failing to act legitimately could damage their claim to the trademark. I don't know why Mojang didn't just agree to stick some other word in front or after the Scrolls, it's not like the title is some kind of creative masterstroke anyway.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

Did... Did no one actually read the article?

It's tragic isn't it...

 

[Creator002]

Did I just read "Bethesda wants to protect customers from confusion"?
I did?
Well, I'm glad Bethesda's legal team is there to help my limited brain capacity to distinguish differences in terms. I know for a fact I would have trouble separating Mojang's stand-alone game "Scrolls" from Bethesda's "Elder Scrolls" series of games.

I can understand Bethesda's stand-point that if they let this go there can be repercussions like somebody making "The Older Scawls" or "Scrolls of the Elder", but I think that those titles are much, MUCH more likely to confuse a customer than the single word of "Scrolls". If Notch had named his game something like that, I'd be totally behind Bethesda, despite the fact I love Minecraft.
I'm sort of I two boats about this now. On one hand I think Bethesda should just let it go, but I know if they don't, there can be similar repurcussions to what I said above (different, but similar title) and not just with Bethesda games, but with others. For example, someone makes "Battle among Halos" where you have to fight the "Convieniant" against a set of "Space Circles" that can blow up millions of lightyears worth of planets. You eventually have to find a key in a "Room of Books" with the help of "The 3rd Guilty Orb".

I'm stopping there, I like this idea. <_<

EDIT - Wow, I hope China doesn't call. I seem to have stolen a wall from them.

 

[UberMore]

No once calls the Elder Scrolls games by "That new ELDER SCROLLS game?!" unless we don't know the title of said game.
It's always been (for example) Morrowwind, Oblivion and (now) Skyrim.
So dropping the "Elder" from the title doesn't cause a conflict of trademark or any confusion.
"Law" should meet it's market before heading forwards on grounds that don't hold up outside of a court.