Bethesda Doesn't Enjoy Being "Forced" into Mojang Lawsuit

[pwnzerstick]

Wait how do "Scrolls" and "Skyrim" get mixed up... Oh right! "The Elder Scrolls"! The one part of the name that no one ever says and has never played any signifigant role in any of the games (until now.

 

[mega48man]

instead of scrolls, why not call it books? you can make books in minecraft, and i doubt you can be sued over the word books. i'm still doumbfounded that you can sue someone over a word. if i made a book called "the life harry the mailman", would J.K. Rowling sue me for using the name 'Harry'? more importantly, did this problem arise between star wars and star trek?

 

[Sarah Frazier]

Maybe I'm just not greedy capitalist lawyer enough, but... Who cares about one word that happens to be used in two different games? Nobody I know says "The Elder Scrolls", but instead call them by the particular edition of Morrowind, Oblivion, and so on. There would be no confusion at all between those and some other game called Scrolls. Not even those people who barely touched the games refer to them as The Elder Scrolls.

A friend pointed at that if one game is allowed to exist with one shared word, then other games will do likewise, but I still don't understand. There are only so many words to use to title a game by, so if we can't exhaust one or two word titles we'll end up going to longer and more complicated titles because nobody wants to share a thing.

 

[artanis_neravar]

I understand that he wanted to protect his creations, but his trademark application for Scrolls really concerned me, going after everything from radio broadcasts to clothing lines. In the long run, he could have had legal right to sue anyone that tried to use "scrolls" in anything, including the Elder Scrolls.

So if I understand correctly, Mojang is the "bad guy" because, by trademarking the word Scrolls, one day in the future he MIGHT do what the "good guy", Bethesda, is already doing TODAY...IE: trademark a word and sue anyone who uses it?

Also, if Mojang COULD trademark Scrolls, isn't there some sort of law that would prevent Mojang's from ever suing Bethesda's use of Elder Scrolls due to the Elder Scroll's brand pre-existing Mojang's trademark?

My opinion is that Bethesda's lawyers are just being sue-happy. If they really WERE just protecting their trademark then what about:

Warcraft vs. Minecraft?
Grand Theft Auto vs. Auto Assault?
God of War vs. Gears of War?
Lords of the Realms vs. Lord of the Rings?
etc., etc., etc.?

Obviously the above examples show that lawyers have SOME leeway to think for themselves instead of resorting to lawsuits at any use of one word of their game.

They might have and we would never have heard about it, and it all depends on the the trademark office determines is infringement. Also Bethesda is protecting their trademark from future issues, not only would Mojang be able to sue them, but anyone who made a game with a similar title, or possibly the same title, would get away with it because failure to defend your trademark makes you lose it.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

Bethesda isn't being forced into anything. Who pays these lawyers? On whose behalf is the suit filed? What a steaming loaf. Seems Bethesda is just another little EA corporate factory in the making.

To answer both your questions, Zenimax, the owners of Bethesda.

What, do you propose that this is like being angry at the arm because the body wants to be a jerk? These thugs in suits can't step out of their ivory towers for a minute and act like human beings. This entire lawyer circle jerk is disgusting.

Even IF its all about the money; the bad PR from this farce carries a long term price of its own.

Yes, but lets be honest with ourselves here, we're not gonna remember this at all when November rolls around and Skyrim is released and if we do, its probably not gonna effect our purchase. If you think this is gonna hurts Skyrim's sales, you're mistaken. If a game like Modern Warfare 2 can sell millions of copies on the PC despite the lack of dedicated servers, I'm pretty sure Skryim, the prized jewel of the of the PC's 2011 year, will be just fine.

 

[SnakeCL]

instead of scrolls, why not call it books? you can make books in minecraft, and i doubt you can be sued over the word books. i'm still doumbfounded that you can sue someone over a word.

if i made a book called "the life harry the mailman", would J.K. Rowling sue me for using the name 'Harry'?

Doubtful, since that's a proper name.

more importantly, did this problem arise between star wars and star trek?

No, because you identify with the words "wars" and "trek" more than "star".

 

[Compatriot Block]

Every single one of these threads has been full of people willingly ignoring the fact that by law, if they don't take this to court Bethesda will end up screwed later.

How many more threads does this site need before people understand that it's not just "lawyers who want to get paid"?

 

[Scaevola77]

I understand that he wanted to protect his creations, but his trademark application for Scrolls really concerned me, going after everything from radio broadcasts to clothing lines. In the long run, he could have had legal right to sue anyone that tried to use "scrolls" in anything, including the Elder Scrolls.

So if I understand correctly, Mojang is the "bad guy" because, by trademarking the word Scrolls, one day in the future he MIGHT do what the "good guy", Bethesda, is already doing TODAY...IE: trademark a word and sue anyone who uses it?

For the record, if you actually look at the copyright applications, Bethesda's is specifically for video games, and Mojang's is for just about everything under the sun, from clothing lines to radio shows.

Again, Bethesda isn't suing to get money or be jerks, they are primarily suing because the US trademark office told them they needed to sue to protect their trademark. Protecting the trademark is important because it prevents others from applying for a trademark, getting it, and then suing them. Their lawsuit is purely defensive.

People are acting so outraged. . . but stuff like this happens all the time. Most companies are just not idiots and choose to keep their legal matters under wraps instead of broadcasting them to everyone.

 

[olaffub42]

The silliest thing about this is that noone actually refers to these games as "The Elder Scrolls."

I sympathise with Bethesda, a little bit, but it's not the title of Mojang's game that needs changed. It's these idiotic laws.

My thoughts exactly.
I dont call Morrowind, 'The Elder Scroll's III'.
This is just lawyer's providing their own job security and making money (and help making games more expensive in their own way)

The problem is that while yes most people refer to 'Oblivion' and 'Skyrim' as just that, its the 'Elder Scrolls' part that differentiates them from a game JUST called 'Oblivion' or 'Skyrim.' That's the whole point of trademark. How many people were convinced to go out and preorder 'The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim' just because 'The Elder Scrolls' was in the title.

 

[SnakeCL]

Every single one of these threads has been full of people willingly ignoring the fact that by law, if they don't take this to court Bethesda will end up screwed later.

How many more threads does this site need before people understand that it's not just "lawyers who want to get paid"?

Should probably just come up with a canned, quoted, response. Maybe after a while these types will get it, LOL.

 

[artanis_neravar]

Maybe I'm just not greedy capitalist lawyer enough, but... Who cares about one word that happens to be used in two different games? Nobody I know says "The Elder Scrolls", but instead call them by the particular edition of Morrowind, Oblivion, and so on. There would be no confusion at all between those and some other game called Scrolls. Not even those people who barely touched the games refer to them as The Elder Scrolls.

A friend pointed at that if one game is allowed to exist with one shared word, then other games will do likewise, but I still don't understand. There are only so many words to use to title a game by, so if we can't exhaust one or two word titles we'll end up going to longer and more complicated titles because nobody wants to share a thing.

It's just the way the law works, if Bethesda didn't fight against scrolls, then I could make a game and call it The Elder Scroll: Skyrem and they couldn't stop me.

instead of scrolls, why not call it books? you can make books in minecraft, and i doubt you can be sued over the word books. i'm still doumbfounded that you can sue someone over a word. if i made a book called "the life harry the mailman", would J.K. Rowling sue me for using the name 'Harry'? more importantly, did this problem arise between star wars and star trek?

Only if the copyright office thought there was a chance for confusion.

 

[Spencer Petersen]

I don't need to be a car designer to tell what is good or bad about a given car design choice. I don't have to be a game designer to tell if a given gameplay mechanic is good or balls. I don't have to be a lawyer to tell if a lawsuit is frivolous or not.

So your complete inexperience with legal affairs makes you the perfect candidate for determining the validity of trademark disputes, truly you are the chosen one.

 

[Nami nom noms]

Bethesda are talking out of their arse, tbh.

I'm insulted by their impression that everyone who buys their game is too stupid to be able to read.

They will lose; IP law will not cover the name scrolls, just because their game is named 'the elder scrolls'. It is the formation and use of the words that is important. The law is not stupid. If Mojang called it 'The something scrolls: something', then they'd have a case.

Uh, the US trademark office even said that the two were close enough to be an issue. Whether you think they aren't or not is not an issue, according to the actual trademark office, they are.

Rome: Total War, and Shadow of Rome. Did creative assembly need to sue capcom because their game had rome in the title? and people would confuse the two? no. Did another game with Rome in the title hurt the sales and success of the Total war series? no.

Do we know that there wasn't any litigation between the two? No, because we don't have someone like Notch trying to sick uninformed fans of his games on the other company. I'd even wager that "Rome" is not a word you can trademark, since, well, its a place.

The point about defending their copyright is true. But they have gone for the something that is not a threat here... Bethesda's lawyers really haven't done their job properlly on this one.

It IS a threat, that's just the issue. The US Trademark office basically said "hey uh, take this to court or you're losing your trademark."

1. Yes, but this case is going to be tried in sweden, and the laws there are different. PLUS without going into the nitty gritty, YES they can be considered close, YES there is a case simply because if their wasn't it wouldn't even reach the court room, it would get thrown out. But ruling on either one sets a precedent, and I highly doubt any court would rule on a single word from another title, think about what that would mean for everything else in the world.
If it was this word, and the games were pretty much identical, yeah, THEN there is an issue. The european courts are very protective of the public, but they certainly avoid nannying them.

2. Yes, we do know there wasn't, because believe it or not their are case reports available to the public. How has anything Notch done attempted to sick the fans on bethesda? They are suing him, and it's his discretion to release it or not. He has been quite amicable whereas bethesda has not to this point. That's their choice.

3. Again the law is that if a trademark is not defended it is basically assumed in the eyes of the law that said trademark no longer exists. the title 'Scrolls' is not that trademark. They have been over-zealous.
Additionally, I am fairly certain this is not the only game with scrolls somewhere in the title... though I would have to look into it I'm sure I've heard of at least one other game where the word appears.

 

[lacktheknack]

Because Mojang are trademarking Scrolls to make a game called "The Eldest Scrolls: Skyrings"...
Notch is deliberately trying to cause confusion rather than just have a game called Scrolls.

Isn't this how rumors get started? Or am I not reading you right?

 

[AdmiralCheez]

I understand that he wanted to protect his creations, but his trademark application for Scrolls really concerned me, going after everything from radio broadcasts to clothing lines. In the long run, he could have had legal right to sue anyone that tried to use "scrolls" in anything, including the Elder Scrolls.

So if I understand correctly, Mojang is the "bad guy" because, by trademarking the word Scrolls, one day in the future he MIGHT do what the "good guy", Bethesda, is already doing TODAY...IE: trademark a word and sue anyone who uses it?

Also, if Mojang COULD trademark Scrolls, isn't there some sort of law that would prevent Mojang's from ever suing Bethesda's use of Elder Scrolls due to the Elder Scroll's brand pre-existing Mojang's trademark?

That's exactly where trademark law fails and gets really sketchy. It's up to the judicial system at that point to sort it out, and that rarely works out to everyone's best interest.

I'm not saying Mojang is the bad guy, I'm saying their trademark application was really sketchy, covering every media outlet for "Scrolls." That means they could abuse it later on, depending on which lawyers are looking at it, even though I doubt they will. Bethesda/Zenimax are trying to cover their butts and warn Mojang not to go too far with it, it seems. After all, their trademark on the "The Elder Scrolls" is for video games only.

 

[Scrustle]

Ugh why won't Notch just change the bloody name!? Yes, the case is nonsense, but who cares? Just change the name already! The game barely even exists anyway! Just change it!

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

Bethesda is totally in the right on this lawsuit. I think a lot of people are having a knee jerk reaction to side with Mojang because they are the small company.

 

[razer17]

Why do you people still not get this. Did you hear what the copyright lawyer said, in the article, that you JUST read?

Why yes, I did. doesn't change my thoughts on the matter. It's a waste of everyone's time and money. Simple logic would tell Bethsoft that there's no chance for confusing these two games, therefore, they need to stop being dickpistons over it.


It's pedantics. That's all it is.

Basically, they have to file these motions just to make sure.

No, they don't. They don't need to file a lawsuit every time something vaguely similar pops up. You don't see Valve throwing a pissfit over pedantics like this.

And let's be honest, I doubt any of you are lawyers, and even if you were, it's not copyright law you study.

This implies that one needs to be a copyright lawyer to form a valid opinion on something using basic logic any of us have. Way to go, bro!


I don't need to be a car designer to tell what is good or bad about a given car design choice. I don't have to be a game designer to tell if a given gameplay mechanic is good or balls. I don't have to be a lawyer to tell if a lawsuit is frivolous or not.

Firstly, it's not just about confusion. They have to protect their brands, the law in America is quirky that way.

Secondly, you DO need knowledge of the law. Assuming that you can make a decision about the law based on having no knowledge of it is ridiculous. Assuming you can use logic would mean A: We don't need lawyers or judges, anyone can make a call on logic, and B: it makes the assumption that all laws are logical. They aren't. Some laws don't make much sense, and they require people to jump through hoops.

So yeah, you need legal knowledge to make that call.

 

[aashell13]

I'm not a lawyer, but it seems like the case would hold more water if the two games had more in common: The Elder Scrolls is an RPG, and mojang's Scrolls is supposed to be a trading card game.

Would Ford sue Fisher Price for making a scooter called 'taurus' on the grounds that people might confuse it with a four door sedan? I wouldn't think so.