Alleged_Alec said:
craddoke said:
Alleged_Alec said:
I'm someone who mainly likes playing stealth characters, but I found that as soon as I enter melee combat, tits go up pretty rapidly. If I use two weapons, stuff dies quickly, but so do I. If I use a single sword, I can block, but it seems to do very little. Am I playing it wrong?
Don't enter melee combat is my advice; use a bow and unlock all the perks -- combined with high-level stealth powers, most enemies in Skyrim die before they even know you're there. As a last ditch defense weapon, get something that can paralyze and you should be okay when facing the exceptions.
Regarding the article, I completely agree. The Elder Scrolls games are one of the few RPGs in which my default character is not a mage. It is just too much hassle for too little reward.
So how does it work for people who actually want to go into close combat?
Well, first of all, a stealth character shouldn't have to go into close combat. If you invest in the sneaking perk tree properly most enemies won't even know you are there. By the sounds of it you want to make some cross class of stealth and warrior (like some sort of lethal melee assassin). However, when fighting is unavoidable...
If you want to use Dual Weapons and be a melee beast:
Put trait points into Health mainly, with Stamina a low secondary (and none in magic). So for every ten levels you rise it should be 6/4/0 (Health, Stamina, Magic). This is to balance your ability to deal damage and how well you can take it.
Put perks into light armor... the more combat focused your build the more perks you should invest. If every encounter is to be a fight, fill this perk tree up over your play trough. Be especially concerned with Windwalker, since that will allow you to power attack very often.
Invest in One handed skills, Armsman (up to rank 5), figthing stance (for reduced stamina consumption), Dual Flurry and Dual Savagery. Savage Strike is optional, it gives a mild damage boost to standing power attacks and a cool decapitation animation that plays randomly. The weapon type perks (for axes, swords and maces) are also optional, they add extra affects such as bleeding, higher critical chances and ignore armor ratings. If you are sticking with daggers, choose Bladesman if you must.
Getting Savage strike opens up Paralyzing Strike in the late game, which gives your backward power attack a 25% chance to paralyse, which can be extremely helpful. Ignore any perks that aren't relevant to your playstyle.
In this build, Sneak will have to take a back seat since you value standing power and damage over evasion, but it can be useful. Getting the drop on a powerful enemy can net you massive damage if not instant kills, with the right perks. Max out "Stealth" to reduce the chance of detection. Light armor will have negligible penalties so you won't need "muffle". Then invest in the assassins path (backstab, deadly aim [not useful if you aren't using bows, but needed for the last perk] and Assassins Blade, which gives daggers 6x damage when used in a sneak attack). Assassins Blade, coupled with One Handed skills, can make most enemies die instantly.
You should invest some perks in Alchemy. Poisons and Potions are a Thiefs friend in combat, and much like smiting and enchanting, have some ludicrously powerful. Certain potions are extremely useful. In the early game, try to harvest Frostbite poison from spiders, as they make dealing with large enemy groups much easier.
Only go one handed if you plan on using shields and the Block Skill tree.
In this case, do much the same as earlier, but instead of investing entirely in Light Armor, put a few perks into Block, primarily "Shield Wall" and "Quick Reflexes". Shield Wall mitigates damage while quick reflexes gives you a "bullet time" effect if you time a block against a power attack properly (if you see a heavy swing, block and time should slow down allowing you to bash them, cause them to stagger and counter attack). Ignore any of the right side of the perk tree as they aren't too useful to anything outside of a pure melee warrior. Consider investing in Block Runner (need Deflect Arrows and elemental protection, which are both useful to some extent) as it allows you to run (not sprint) while blocking. Shield Charge turns sprinting while blocking into a wrecking ball (low damage but massive chaos as you knock over most enemies), but it's more flavor then it is practical, so you can skip it.
Stick to using light shields (leather, glass, elven etc.) since it compliments your light armor skills.
Ignore all Dual Wielding perks in One handed, no need to add any more perks here unless you want to specialise in a weapon choice (axes, swords or maces), instead you can reinvest these into blocking.
Sneak is much the same. If you are using daggers you will want Assassins Blade for the 6x damage with Daggers. However, you must be sure that you can land sneak attacks consistently, otherwise it's just a wasted perk (same for Dual Wielding if you can't land a sneak attack). If you need to invest a little more in sneak then reduce investment in light armor (go 1 or 2 levels in Agile Defender instead of all 5), since Blocking can substitute for the lower defense rating (if you're good).
AS you can tell, becoming a combat ready stealth character leaves little else to other skill sets. The only other Perk Tree you really need to consider is Alchemy, since speech, pickpocket and lockpicking are virtually useless (Pickpocket is useful for pure Sneak characters, speech is fairly useless though it can help with early game cashflow problems and lockpicking can be mastered by you without investing perks, just have lots of picks on hand).
OT: I'd have to disagree with you Shamus. Magic doesn't suck. Going Pure Mage is difficult, but my level 54 Dark Elf mage (master necromancer) is able to shoot Dragons (low level) out of the sky in a single volley and turn dead enemies into my own personal Thralls. The early game is pretty misleading though, which is where I can see your point.
Destruction, for a pure mage, seems immediately necessary since it feels like your primary damage dealer. In reality, Destruction is a double edged sword. It compliments a high level mage quite well, but in the early game it can drain so fast as to make your other skills near useless.
Likewise, Alteration is a huge drain on your Mana, and leaves you open to attacks with no means of response.
Restoration is useful for quick fixes, but potions are so abundant you will rarely need it. However, it can be very useful if you use Heal Other Spells on companions. In the late game it can let you stand in the fight a little longer.
Conjuration is a must for a pure mage. They draw attention away from you by acting as decoys AND deal damage. This should be one of the first skills you start investing in and it's really easy to level (just summon daggers or familiars for the first 30 levels, then higher level items and creatures from then on).
Alternatively, Illusion can also be used (I prefer Conjuration). The ability to turn enemies into allies, or enemies against enemies, is extremely useful and if you have companions, the buffs you can throw at them can turn them into beasts. Heck, in the Civil War (a modded version which much harder then the vanilla), the ability to buff my comrades turned a potential loss into a resounding win.
However, Illusion is a little trickier. You will need a companion early on, to apply buffs too, and it levels really slowly (doubling the need for a companion).
Enchanting allows you to customise your own robes or armor to best suit your character build, rather then relying on random drops or rank based robes at the College. It also allows you to deck out your companions, making them far more competent when left on their own (though certain enchantments have no affect on companions). With the Dragonborn DLC (i think) you can also create your own custom staffs.
Speaking of which, Staffs are a mages friend. I've often heard people selling them for cash and relying on their spells alone. While you don't level skills with magic staffs, they are affected by your corresponding skills (not in terms of damage, but duration of use... high destruction allows you to use destruction staffs for longer without need for recharge.
Also, you said you need to spread yourself thin? That's not true. Put something like 5 points into health MAX, nothing into stamina and the rest into magic. By level 30 you will have 150 points of health and 350 mana (by 40 it's 450, 50 is 550 etc). Robes (chosen based on your preferred specialization) and enchanted items will massively reduce mana consumption, allowing you to cast often with little need for respite (and you have potions to spare, if you've been spending money wisely, in case you need a little extra).
I could go on, but this post is way too big already.
