Bethesda: People Who Say Graphics "Don't Matter" Are Usually Lying

[geizr]

Graphics matter, but not to the exclusion of all else in a game. No one will ever complain about a great game(or even just a decently good game) having great graphics, but people will violently complain about a shitty game where the only thing positive is the graphics. Even so, as has been empirically demonstrated by numerous games, having great graphics(of the type expected with AAA gaming) is not an a priori condition for a pleasurable or even immersive gaming experience(in fact, one can make the argument, and some have, that the over-emphasis on the graphics has actually precipitated a decrease in the overall quality and value of games, while increasing their cost). Many other factors can contribute(sometimes more significantly) to a more immersive experience, such as controls, musical score, use of sound and atmospheric effects, artistic style, game flow and choreography, game mechanics, gameplay design, story, and communicated ideas and concepts.

There just is no one single factor, and many other things beyond graphics go so much deeper into creating a pleasurable, immersive gaming experience; great graphics is merely the icing on the cake.

 

[Stammer]

I admit, graphics are a big factor for me when I buy the game. But it usually doesn't take "hyper-realistic" graphics, it's all about how close the game looks to its intended art style.

The only reason why I find them really important is because poor graphics (and, admittedly sometimes even overly-good graphics) can pull me out of my immersion. And since immersion is the goal I have when playing ANY game, it makes it a big deal.

I think the only case where the graphics were so bad in spite of the art style that it strongly deterred me from the game is in WoW. Though admittedly that's probably got a lot to do with my unbridled bias against the game. Hell, the second line in my "Why WoW Sucks" song is about the graphics.

 

[Meatspinner]

Bethesda really should start considering having a dedicated PR person. Todd and Pete seem to think that alienating or using strawmen is good PR

 

[manaman]

A word of advice, Pete: Mudcrabs aren't very immersive.

You take that back. You take that back right now Mr. Funk.

Mudcrabs are noble creatures.

Regarding the less important parts of the article: For a game to be good everything does not have to be a photo realistic as possible. The graphics are important as they are a major component of the game. Much like movies. Action movies wouldn't be half as impressive if they threw some poppers on the ground or maybe lit of a couple of firecrackers and left it up to you to imagine a grand explosion.

Graphics are very important, they just don't have to be state of the art to be good in a game.

I can't believe you said that about mudcrabs. I am sad now.

 

[Therumancer]

Mudcrabs are immersive, they are a staple of that world, and as far as I'm concerned it's not Tamriel without them. If there are no Mudcrabs, the game has no sense of that reality. They are to "The Elder Scrolls" what Murlocs are to Warcraft.

That said, I think the Bethesda guys are right to an extent. Right now it's very true that graphics matter because the industry has drawn in so much of the casual, and mainstream crowd for which all that matters is the flash. Depth doesn't matter, today the crowd the industry has brought in would basically drop a gold bar for a piece of tin foil because it's shinier.

The guys for whom graphics don't matter that much are still around, and we're as numerous as ever, we're just outnumbered. I mean there are still plenty of people who occasionally fire up "Roguelikes". I seem to remember The Escapist had a "Let's Play" for "Dwarf Fortress" even. Then of course we have the smash success of "Minecraft" which does not have pretty graphics by any reasonable standard, it's all about the gameplay. Abandonware sites still see reasonable traffic, and businesses like GoG.com are making a decent bit of money off of digitally distributing games that are 10 or more years old in many cases.

Someone saying "graphics doesn't matter" might make them a liar, or it just might make them a REAL "serious gamer" type. In the final equasion it doesn't matter because Bethesda is right, to pull in the monster profits they are obviously after the new "Elder Scrolls" game is going to have to be really pretty. I imagine it will also continue the trend of being dumbed down, as every iteration of "Elder Scrolls" is. Already we're hearing about less skills, and that's usually the first thing we hear about... condense it down. To be honest I'm surprised gamers haven't gotten insulted yet. I mean I kind of thought it was funny when they decided that having say "Large Blades and Short Blades" was too complicated for the average gamer. Sometimes I wonder how long it will be before Elder Scrolls is reduced down to the point where they either remove character building entirely or reduce the character to say two attributes, just "attack and defense" and then advertise "customize your character!" as a big feature since choose which attribute to put your one point per level into.

Ahh well, enough rambling and I'm getting off subject. I'm really looking forward to Skyrim and expect it to be pretty good, especially compared to what is out there right now, so I should be nicer. It's just whenever I think of "Elder Scrolls" I remember jokes about the evolution of gaming coming full circle.... we start out with simple games with a thumbstick and one button, to play things like "Defender" or "Astroids", games grow up and become more complicated and immersive, and do all kinds of cool things, and then the trend turns into streamlining for all the mainstreamers who come into gaming, and as a result of dumbing down for them it slowly shrinks away back to games like "Defender" with a single thumby joystick and one "fire" button... it's just far more people play it as the lowest human denominator has become sated while the smarty pants outsiders are forced to develop something else worthy of them and the process slowly begins again on another front....

 

[Signa]

Bethesda talks about immersion. I have to admit I lol'd a bit.

Well, there's Morrowind...

I'm under the suspicion that they don't want to acknowledge that game anymore. It probably was made by accident, and they don't even want to try to "fail" like that again.

 

[Trolldor]

Bethesda: People Who Say Graphics "Don't Matter" Are Usually Lying

Some gamers may pooh-pooh good graphics, but Bethesda's Pete Hines thinks they're integral to immersion.

You've probably seen a scene very much like this one message boards and gaming forums all over the place: Gorgeous screenshots from Game X are leaked, but then someone chimes in as a naysayer. "Why do game companies keep wasting time on graphics," they say, "Graphics don't matter at all."

Bethesda's VP of marketing Pete Hines thinks those people are full of it. "There's a lot of people who say graphics don't matter," Hines said in the most recent OXM Podcast [http://www.oxm.co.uk/26494/the-oxm-podcast-bethesdas-pete-hines/]. "To them I usually say 'you're lying.'"

Graphics can make or break whether people are interested in a game, said Hines. "[People] will look at a screenshot and make a snap decision: 'that looks awesome,' or 'I'm not interested.' So if you can make something look amazing just at first glance, it's so much easier to get them."

Graphics aren't just a marketing point either, said Hines - they can aid in a sense of immersion in a fictional world. Naturally, he plugged his company's upcoming Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, saying that Bethesda was "looking for the best sense of immersion you can get." A word of advice, Pete: Mudcrabs aren't very immersive.

Judging from last month's in-game trailer [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/108009-First-Skyrim-Trailer-Shows-Off-In-Game-Hotness], Skyrim is rocking the visuals quite nicely.

(Via CVG [http://www.computerandvideogames.com/293916/news/bethesda-if-you-say-graphics-dont-matter-youre-probably-lying/])

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When most people say 'graphics don't matter', it's because they're on the last list of priorities.

A game built around immersion, however, will rely on graphics - but only insofar as they establish the environment. Looking pretty means nothing if it adds nothing to the game.

 

[SkinyJim]

I recall the first Assassin's Creed was rather well known for it's graphics, but I still know heaps of people who wouldn't touch the second one because the gameplay of the first one was so repetitive.

 

[SoulSalmon]

What people tend to mean when they say "graphics don't matter" is "REALISTIC graphics don't matter"

Minecraft has "good" graphics, "good" and "realistic" need to stop being interchanged.
Realistic graphics are a huge waste of time for most games by the way, more stylized graphics are easier/cheaper to produce AND they tend to look far superior.

 

[Skoosh]

People that say graphics don't matter seem to think that good graphics equals realistic graphics.

They do not. Winder Waker had good graphics, Okami had good graphics, as well as your modern FPS. It all depends on what you are trying to do with them, and considering half of a game is just what you see, I'd say they matter. It's how the game communicates its mechanics to they player! And as the OP says, immersion is much easier when you aren't straining your eyes to figure out what something is.

 

[Icehearted]

snip

eh, to be honest, I thought Fallout 3 (and New Vegas, for that matter) had sweet graphics

but the animations

oh GOD the animations

everytime I switched to 3rd Person it looked like I was a muppet rather than a human survivor

They've got mods for that too... and they really help in quite a few cases.

 

[lacktheknack]

Speaking of the Elder Scrolls, whatever happened to that Daggerfall LP?

<link=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.258867-Lets-Play-The-Elder-Scrolls-II-Daggerfall-Round-Twelve?page=5#10406156>It's cryogenically frozen until I fail less at academics.

 

[lacktheknack]

Bethesda talks about immersion. I have to admit I lol'd a bit.

Well, there's Morrowind...

I'm under the suspicion that they don't want to acknowledge that game anymore. It probably was made by accident, and they don't even want to try to "fail" like that again.

<link=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/108446-Skyrim-Will-Be-Weird-Like-Morrowind>Wut?

Seriously, that didn't make any sense.

 

[Togs]

good graphics are nice and certainly help wth immersion, but as long as they dont sink below a certain threshold then no biggy.

 

[zombones]

For a company that says graphics matter their games fallout 3 *cough* kinda look like shit lately

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

Good graphics are nice, but you know whats better Bethesda? A stable game engine.

Again, this. A million times.

I feel like I should link Hines this thread.

If you do, I hope he pays attention.

 

[Elvoret]

I disagree.

I mean, Dwarf fortress, hooray. That's an ASCI game and it's one of my favourite.

 

[frago roc]

I saw a mudcrab the other day... dreadful creatures.

 

[Baldr]

Graphics do not matter, but aesthetics do and if you can't tell the difference then you shouldn't be involved in game art.