Beyond: Two Souls vs. The Stanley Parable

[Sarge034]

In brief, then, the games are hardly worth comparing, because while The Stanley Parable is actually a player-controlled branching narrative, Beyond: Two Souls merely puts on an illusion of one.

I take issue with this. While I will admit I have played neither of these games I have two main gripes about this statement.

First, you can have the illusion of a player-controlled branching narrative and still have a good game. Telltale's The Walking Dead is an excellent example. Seriously, all you can change in that game is some minor dialog and the order in which people die. Yet it still kicks people in the feels and has them drooling for more (me included, YAY CLEM!!!).

Second, I would argue that there are no real player-controlled branching narrative games. All the choices you can make in any game have already been thought of and made a part of the game. So you, as the player, are simply following a set path the devs have laid out for you. Giving you the illusion of freedom.

 

[sshplur]

'The Fat Controller'. I love it! All it's missing is lots of sad face stickers.

 

[Thanatos2k]

I saw every bit of content in The Stanley Parable in an afternoon, but damn if it wasn't one of the most enjoyable afternoons of my life.

For everyone saying they might "check it out" - don't. Stop whatever you're playing right now and download the demo for free off Steam and play that. Then buy and play the game. It's not long.

 

[Darth_Payn]

Welcome to the master race Yahtzee.

Anyway. Beyond: Two Souls could have been such a cool game if it would limit you to just playing as Aiden through the whole game. Unable to go far from the girl who is just an scripted AI. By interacting with her and the environment you can alter the actions of people and the flow of the story. Be horrible to the girl as she grows up and she'll come to hate/fear you and will try to rid herself of you, be helpful and she'll come to rely on you and who knows what you can accomplish. Maybe even the plot of the game could change depending on your actions, be a monster and your revealed origin might turn out to be that of a devil, be good and maybe you'll discover you're her dead childhood friend watching over her, maybe even throw in secret origins like being an alien creature that needs a host body to survive. Of course the game would have to be in chronological order instead of the mixed up mess we have now.

Now that would have been an actual game, unlike the shit stain that was released. Because there's some really cool stuff in that game, to bad you have to swim through a mile of shit to get to them.

Aiden's the guy played by Willem Dafoe, right? Of course he's the devil! Haven't you watched that one car commercial?

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

Dear Alien Yahtzee,

Please use a wired connection. Thank you.

Love,
-screw.

 

[ritchards]

"The Fat Controller" eh? I know a Doctor Who reference when I see one! (Or even when I don't see one.)

I thought it was a reference to Dr. Staurt Ashen who did a review of a transforming Thomas the Tank Engine knockoff and thought that Sir Topham hat was actually called the Fat Controller.

In the Doctor Who story, Attack of the Cybermen, there is the line "It is a fact, controller." The controller had the same actor from Tomb of the Cybermen, although had put on a few pounds over the years, and the 'c' didn't come across all that well, so...

I'm sure it's your reference, I just overly spot DW references.

 

[IrisNetwork]

Ah, I see you found the "Broom Closet Ending" to be your favourite as well.

 

[antidonkey]

An Alienware machine? I can only assume they still make good machines that are way overpriced. I might build a new computer at the start of next year. I'm not sure since my current one is still going strong.

I figured B:TS was going to pretty much be the same David Cage bullshit that his previous games were. Nice to know I wasn't wrong and shall not be wasting any money on this one either.

 

[Amaror]

So you got the Broom Closet "Ending"? The Broom Closet "Ending" was my FAvorite!

I find this post really disturbing...

 

[Thoughtful_Salt]

To me the biggest difference between TSP and B:TS was player agency.

TSP is designed to be very reactive to your actions/decisions, limited as they may be. You may not be in control of it, but you're definitely the one steering the plot. The spotlight's on you.
In B:TS it's more like the course is already set and you're only allowed to interact when it has virtually no significance to the overall experience save for slightly different endings. The spotlight's on everything but you.

You're saying that like it's the most terrible thing ever. I don't mind more directed experiences like this, and don't say "Then watch a movie", it's already a game and we must meet it on its own terms. If a game wants to be a directed experience with no way to alter the narrative, then so be it, as long as it does what it wants to do effectively then there is no issue. B:TS does have some severe issues, but I liked it enough (my review on it is in the user reviews before you pounce on me). To use an analogy, calling a car crap because it's not a truck is kind of missing the point of both.

 

[Marik Bentusi]

To me the biggest difference between TSP and B:TS was player agency.

TSP is designed to be very reactive to your actions/decisions, limited as they may be. You may not be in control of it, but you're definitely the one steering the plot. The spotlight's on you.
In B:TS it's more like the course is already set and you're only allowed to interact when it has virtually no significance to the overall experience save for slightly different endings. The spotlight's on everything but you.

You're saying that like it's the most terrible thing ever. I don't mind more directed experiences like this, and don't say "Then watch a movie", it's already a game and we must meet it on its own terms. If a game wants to be a directed experience with no way to alter the narrative, then so be it, as long as it does what it wants to do effectively then there is no issue. B:TS does have some severe issues, but I liked it enough (my review on it is in the user reviews before you pounce on me). To use an analogy, calling a car crap because it's not a truck is kind of missing the point of both.

A directed experience with no way to alter the narrative doesn't have to be devoid of player agency or unfocus the player. Linear games do it all the time. In the go-to example of HL2 you have zero narrative choice/impact, but you're still very much in the spotlight. It's also possible without having to rely on making the player character a blank slate, as Bioshock Infinite or Deus Ex Human Revolution can show you. Player choice in these games is almost entirely restricted to the gameplay, but that's enough to make the player feel they're in charge, they matter, they're necessary, they have agency.

In BTS the main purpose of the player is to trigger cutscenes. Which is why Yahtzee says you might as well watch a movie and pause-and-unpause it every now and then to recreate the experience. If you make the player matter neither in narrative nor in gameplay, in my opinion you've just made a slightly more tedious version of a really long movie.

Of course, if you immunize something against all critique and comparisons by basically saying it set its own set of standards, then I don't see a point in discussing it. Unless you want to discuss the plot maybe, but that really wasn't the point of my original comment, so I doubt that.

Not sure why you think I'd pounce on anyone tho.

 

[Thoughtful_Salt]

To me the biggest difference between TSP and B:TS was player agency.

TSP is designed to be very reactive to your actions/decisions, limited as they may be. You may not be in control of it, but you're definitely the one steering the plot. The spotlight's on you.
In B:TS it's more like the course is already set and you're only allowed to interact when it has virtually no significance to the overall experience save for slightly different endings. The spotlight's on everything but you.

You're saying that like it's the most terrible thing ever. I don't mind more directed experiences like this, and don't say "Then watch a movie", it's already a game and we must meet it on its own terms. If a game wants to be a directed experience with no way to alter the narrative, then so be it, as long as it does what it wants to do effectively then there is no issue. B:TS does have some severe issues, but I liked it enough (my review on it is in the user reviews before you pounce on me). To use an analogy, calling a car crap because it's not a truck is kind of missing the point of both.

A directed experience with no way to alter the narrative doesn't have to be devoid of player agency or unfocus the player. Linear games do it all the time. In the go-to example of HL2 you have zero narrative choice/impact, but you're still very much in the spotlight. It's also possible without having to rely on making the player character a blank slate, as Bioshock Infinite or Deus Ex Human Revolution can show you. Player choice in these games is almost entirely restricted to the gameplay, but that's enough to make the player feel they're in charge, they matter, they're necessary, they have agency.

In BTS the main purpose of the player is to trigger cutscenes. Which is why Yahtzee says you might as well watch a movie and pause-and-unpause it every now and then to recreate the experience. If you make the player matter neither in narrative nor in gameplay, in my opinion you've just made a slightly more tedious version of a really long movie.

Of course, if you immunize something against all critique and comparisons by basically saying it set its own set of standards, then I don't see a point in discussing it. Unless you want to discuss the plot maybe, but that really wasn't the point of my original comment, so I doubt that.

Not sure why you think I'd pounce on anyone tho.

I'm not immunizing against critique by saying that a work should be taken on its own merits, you can critique the hell out of a game by itself if you know what you're doing. Applying the standards of an entirely different game (and an entirely different medium) onto another just misses the point entirely. It's like me criticizing half life 2 for not being more fast paced or for not being an open world game like sky rim.

Taking this approach means that Beyond: Two Souls allows minimal interaction with the written narrative, which is poorly written, but it allows a different perspective on events (not to mention the various actions Aiden can do that allow for character interaction), which is not something you can do with film, which is a static medium. Yahtzee's reference to it being a movie with the pause button being used neatly sidesteps that fact that the player makes some pretty small but meaningful choices that alter the flow of the narrative (ie. choosing the ending, talking willem dafoe into killing himself, being slightly sarcastic, etc.).

Gaming is an entirely unprecedented medium, and no one knows what directions it can go. David Cage can't write a great story, but I have a feeling his approach to making games might prove influential down the road.

 

[MrCalavera_v1legacy]

The biggest question is which of these two games is a bigger piece of pretentious crap?

I'd say Beyond Two Souls.

Well, SP is at least trying not to look pretentious.

 

[Jburton9]

Congrats on your PC purchase! That is what I am suggesting for now when people ask me what console to get? I say why bother, the consoles are mid range gaming pc's and since most games are cross platform so.... Enjoy those super inexpensive games from Steam - 30, 50 and up to 75% off, Humble Bundle and GoG

There are some exclusive games and if that is a must have then of course go the console route.

I currently own a 360 and PS3 but this next generation may be the first that I skip purchasing one.

At the very least I will end up waiting a year or so to see how this tug of war between the console manufacturers play out.

ALSO: dual boot over to SteamOS - reason to do this would likely be a nice additional performance boost vs running Windows for gaming with all those other processes running soaking up performance.

Things will hopefully get interesting for gaming soon : )

 

[weirdee]

The Master Race will neither forgive nor forget Yahtzee's admission that it was an Alienware he bought. Your halo is slipping and was overly-expensive!

Yeah, real men forge their machines in the fires of Mount Doom into which they put their hatred, their malice, and their will to dominate all console peasants!

yeah, that definitely sounds like the design philosophy of my 25 pound case jet black steel frame with fans and grilles of varying sizes, plus it glows red when i want it to (although i have not installed a deep humming simulator, i am searching for one)

i look forward to when i purchase stanley and his parable on sale

 

[Sigmund Av Volsung]

The Master Race will neither forgive nor forget Yahtzee's admission that it was an Alienware he bought. Your halo is slipping and was overly-expensive!

The Stanley Parable sprang from nowhere for me to everyone suddenly buzzing about it. It's on the wishlist, I'll try it someday.

The Stanley Parable has a demo on steam, and I heartily recommend trying it out. Whatever you think it's going to be, you're probably wrong. I know I was.

And you shouldn't call someone out on buying alienware (there are valid reasons), even ironically: all it does is perpetuate the pc elitist stereotype.

The joke flying over your head.

No one gives that much of a shit over which brand laptop you have, Alienware is like an inside joke amongst PC Gamers, as their products tend to be over-priced and aren't always as well built as other Dell products.

Nonetheless, what matters is the fact that Yahtzee might be more open to PC exclusives.

Though I am pretty sure that if he reviews an RTS and likes it, the fabric of the universe will be torn in half.