Biden says he does not regret Afghanistan withdrawal as Taliban take over more towns

bobdark

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For the people talking about lack of plan, I just want to point this out. The current plan was all US personal and the people we wanted to save were leaving by August 31st. The government was planned to have lasted around 90 days before they reached a stalemate.

What we didn't plan on was the government folding BEFORE we even left.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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That's easy to say, but what could have been done better? Look at the equipment, that equipment wasn't gift wrapped and left for the Taliban to find. It was given to the afghan army. The alternative would have been to just take all that away from the afghan army before leaving, and then the story would have been "Afghan army defeated because the US took all of their weapon away before leaving, making them helpless in front of the taliban offensive".
We still have air support in the area. We could have airstriked and destroyed any equipment caches that the Taliban captured from the Afghan army and went "no no no, those toys aren't for you."
 

Agema

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I am not a Republican anymore. I don't care which party gets us out, just get us out.
I am irked at Trump. Nice political move, making the withdrawal AFTER the end of his term.
But this was a disaster. From day one. And blame must be apportioned, including to Bush, Obama and Biden.
And at the front of it all? An American people that forgot the lessons of Vietnam.
I am about 99% sure Trump's decision to leave was a cynical, political, dick move.

My suspicion is that everyone knew leaving Afghanistan would lead to the collapse of the Afghan regime - the shock is just that it occurred much faster than expected. That's part of why Trump didn't leave despite all his rhetoric, because it would viewed as a defeat (Vietnam-like as you note) and he would not take that responsibility. Note how Trump instantly mocked Biden for suffering a defeat: that would be the same defeat Trump himself would have suffered had he gone through with his own plan.

So with his electoral chances in trouble, he hastily arranged the Afghan pullout (that he could have done but hadn't bothered with in the previous 3.5 years), in order to claim he'd achieved a promise to his base. Of course the actual departure was set into the next presidential term, because that left him room to reverse his decision if he won the election, or leave the next guy to deal with it if he lost the election.
 

Adam Jensen

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Note how Trump instantly mocked Biden for suffering a defeat: that would be the same defeat Trump himself would have suffered had he gone through with his own plan.
It would have been worse if Trump did it, considering the fact that Trump had released 5,000 Taliban fighters, Pompeo talked to the Taliban, and one of the Taliban that Trump released is set to become the new leader of Afghanistan.
 
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stroopwafel

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My suspicion is that everyone knew leaving Afghanistan would lead to the collapse of the Afghan regime - the shock is just that it occurred much faster than expected.
It makes Hekmatyar's predicted scenario awfully prescient b/c that is exactly how it unfolded. Check it out at 45:37


The situation is probably a lot more complicated than just 'Taliban won'. I wonder if they could have succeeded without the help of Pakistan/ISI with Hekmatyar as their liaison. At the start of the conflict the U.S. might have been able to strongarm (then president) Musharraf to do it's bidding but just like the Taliban ISI just continued to play the long game. Pakistan probably also didn't appreciate the non-stop drone strikes in Waziristan and the north-west border province. The Taliban now having taken over the country again with Hekmatyar taking a pivotal role in his predicted 'peace process' is definitely a major strategic victory for Pakistan as well.

Rummy must be rolling around in his grave right now.
 

Revnak

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It makes Hekmatyar's predicted scenario awfully prescient b/c that is exactly how it unfolded. Check it out at 45:37


The situation is probably a lot more complicated than just 'Taliban won'. I wonder if they could have succeeded without the help of Pakistan/ISI with Hekmatyar as their liaison. At the start of the conflict the U.S. might have been able to strongarm (then president) Musharraf to do it's bidding but just like the Taliban ISI just continued to play the long game. Pakistan probably also didn't appreciate the non-stop drone strikes in Waziristan and the north-west border province. The Taliban now having taken over the country again with Hekmatyar taking a pivotal role in his predicted 'peace process' is definitely a major strategic victory for Pakistan as well.

Rummy must be rolling around in his grave right now.
What do you mean? Rumsfeld got everything he ever wanted out of Afghanistan. We pillaged the country and he got to be in charge while it happened. That’s what he was after. You think he would care about it turning into a right-wing dictatorship when he got his job thanks to lifelong dictatorship supporters stealing an election in Florida?
 

Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)

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definitely a major strategic victory for Pakistan as well.
Doesn't Afghanistan want a part of Pakistan. Isn't the main reason they fund the Taliban was because they don't want them to attempt to reclaim the land so to keep Afghanistan fucked up and unstabilized. The same reason that a sub group of Taliban has premise in Pakistan is being the group that wants to be part of Afghanistan. If by some miracle that country becomes connected and stabilized that would be a huge problem for Pakistan.

This is much more just succeeding too hard you fuck up.
 

09philj

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Doesn't Afghanistan want a part of Pakistan. Isn't the main reason they fund the Taliban was because they don't want them to attempt to reclaim the land so to keep Afghanistan fucked up and unstabilized. The same reason that a sub group of Taliban has premise in Pakistan is being the group that wants to be part of Afghanistan. If by some miracle that country becomes connected and stabilized that would be a huge problem for Pakistan.

This is much more just succeeding too hard you fuck up.
Pakistan's very powerful but also very short sighted secret service the ISI has one trick, which is supporting terrorist organisations. This has repeatedly backfired on them directly and also made them pariahs throughout their sphere of influence, except to China who want to use them to annoy India. However because supporting terrorist organisations is all the ISI knows how to do they will keep doing it.
I am about 99% sure Trump's decision to leave was a cynical, political, dick move.

My suspicion is that everyone knew leaving Afghanistan would lead to the collapse of the Afghan regime - the shock is just that it occurred much faster than expected. That's part of why Trump didn't leave despite all his rhetoric, because it would viewed as a defeat (Vietnam-like as you note) and he would not take that responsibility. Note how Trump instantly mocked Biden for suffering a defeat: that would be the same defeat Trump himself would have suffered had he gone through with his own plan.
The options on the table for Trump were essentially "Tell the American people that the US has actually been screwing the pooch extremely hard in Afghanistan for the last twenty-ish years and there's been a fundamental failure to create a stable, self reliant Afghanistan and there's going to need to have a huge rethink of the entire strategy which will necessarily include an indefinite extension to the entire project" or "Pretend the mission is accomplished, run away as fast as possible, and hope for the best", neither of which were very good choices. Biden had the same choices except the first choice would also involve U-turning on the withdrawal already in progress, which would have looked even more bad. There are a lot of people to blame for this mess, depending at what point you think things went badly wrong. In the context of US intervention it's definitely the fault of all the people in 2001 who thought they could have a nice quick war in Afghanistan and knock up a stable, friendly government and be home in time for tea, despite all geopolitical and historical evidence to the contrary, and also all the people in the succeeding years who knew it wasn't working out and didn't try to change tactics or blow the whistle.
 
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