Big Boobs- why do people complain?
- Thread starter RelexCryo
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Eh... I joke all the time with gamer friends about the plate armor nipple stickers from time to time. How they are made of super magnets to draw all attacks to those few points on the body, especially the softer areas that can absorb and possibly deflect the attack with no lasting harm done to the woman. Everyone has a laugh and then moves on with whatever we were doing before. Breasts just aren't a lingering topic with the 25+ age group I hang with. The 18 and under group, however... /facepalm
Most people do. We are hard-wired for sex, and so we enjoy seeing sexy images, almost no matter what the context. Even when they are not sexy, we want to see things that are attractive regardless. If someone is watching something repulsive but they stay watching it, something about it must be keeping that person's attention and therefore attracting them.GrizzlerBorno said:
For me, if they want to make a female appear attractive, they do the same things that they do to make a male seem attractive: they push them into the fantastic. These are video games, after all, and we must remember that. When we watch TV or see movies, we don't want to see everyday people, we can look around and do that. We want to see things that are pleasing to the eye. Big breasts, for the most part, are pleasing to the eye (I know that they please mine). And yes, I agree, men are not immune to this idealization. Men too are expressed in video games and other media as being tall (unless they're supposed to be stealthy, then it's alright to be smaller), strong, chiseled, intelligent, and sexy. Women, likewise, are supposed to be beautiful, smart, and sexy well beyond what actual women can achieve usually (although their height can usually vary in much greater ways). these media are advocating a body type that very few men or women can actually achieve, but it's also the realm of the fictional. I'm not so sure it's wrong to put the realm of the fictional on trial for not being more like reality. They are supposed to be separate. If we blend too much of the gritty, harsh real with the fantastic realm of video games, we eventually won't have anything to look forward to.
I am 5'7", I have a little bit of extra weight, and little in regards to muscles, yet these men do not get to me. When I play a video game, I don't want to play someone who is typical. It's about escapism, right? Although I must admit I imagine I might feel differently if I were female because men may feel pressured to look their best but women find it as a requirement. If men keep looking to the fantastic as the norm, then that leaves the vast majority of women out of luck.
In short: it's the same for everybody, women have it worse (as usual), and it's the realm of fantasy and although we should be critical in some ways, we should not keep trying to make it look like its frumpy and unpleasant cousin, reality.
Big breasts in small skimpy suits don't stereotype women, it stereotypes men playing these games. There's nothing wrong with a good pair of breasts, but they are obviously there for pandering. This sort of pandering is the lowest form of art and it is like saying "we know this is all you really want in the end".
I have a similar problem with Lisa's show here on the Escapist, although it has gotten better. There it was achieved by overplaying the stupid blond act.
I have a similar problem with Lisa's show here on the Escapist, although it has gotten better. There it was achieved by overplaying the stupid blond act.
i wish i can link you the study to back this up, but i did read somewhere that men, when looking at crude pictorials of the female form, most chose the one that was the most exaggerated in proportions as compared to the normally shaped female.MasochisticMuse said:I don't inherently have a quarrel with big boobs in games, but I fail to see how something like this is at all attractive;
I'm a heterosexual female, I like dicks. If I ever saw a guy in a video game with a bulge that freakishly disproportionate with his body, I wouldn't think it was hot, I'd wonder what the hell was wrong with him.
I think it has to do with the fact most men want a woman with wide hips and large breasts because it means that there be less chance the woman will have complications in Child birth and would be able to better feed the child.
Those are features we are genetically programmed to seek out and find attractive.
here are 2 cartoon characters.
I would bet at least 80% of men find Jessica Rabbit more attractive though Scarlet looks more like a normal attractive human being
Mind you there are ALWAYS exceptions.
Then there is even comparing the same characters but one with more exaggerated features
Because it makes a game the most immature thing ever.
"Oh look, chicks have big boobs and guys are brick walls" is a child's idea of sexuality. As someone who isn't 4, I expect the media I consume to be somewhat intelligent. I've honestly never seen a game with over sized breasts that I've gotten into, not because of the breasts, but because the rest of the game was immature and pointless.
They take work away from other graphics, which is idiotic since they AREN'T NEEDED. Think of one game that really needed giant tits to be good, and it'll be a game that isn't worth playing anyways. There's nothing in a game's play, or story, that is improved by them, unless, of course, it's a hentai game. In which case, I'm all for them.
"Oh look, chicks have big boobs and guys are brick walls" is a child's idea of sexuality. As someone who isn't 4, I expect the media I consume to be somewhat intelligent. I've honestly never seen a game with over sized breasts that I've gotten into, not because of the breasts, but because the rest of the game was immature and pointless.
They take work away from other graphics, which is idiotic since they AREN'T NEEDED. Think of one game that really needed giant tits to be good, and it'll be a game that isn't worth playing anyways. There's nothing in a game's play, or story, that is improved by them, unless, of course, it's a hentai game. In which case, I'm all for them.
Because people love complaining. Or just want to seem more mature than other people, whilst they love it themselves.
It's a curse...MasochisticMuse said:
One of the 20% here. Might just be the red hair though.DTWolfwood said:
88chaz88 said:
As far as Soul Calibur is concerned, I was making a point based on that particular game. It is not the best game to use an example, I chose it just because Extra Credits kept using it as an example.Glademaster said:
As for average breast size:
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1208335,00.html
EDIT: just remembered that is largely due to obesity, meh.
Well, first of all, I have to applaud you for being thorough.RelexCryo said:
Regarding 1. - 5., there is one point that you did not bring up, which is that far more child/teen/young adult men play video games than women of any age. This is changing, but it's like women in nursing - it's still almost overwhelmingly one gender. So it doesn't really much matter that men are also 'held to an impossible standard,' as you put it. The idea of some ripped badass like Wolverine is an archetype that young men wish to emulate. We don't see Logan and suddenly feel shitty in comparison. Now, we may see Josh DuHamel or one of the Twilight douches held up as a beacon of male beauty and, if we're impressionable, feel shitty by comparison, but those aren't video game characters - Hell, they're hardly characters at all. The big boobies you're talking about DO NOT EXIST in the real world - at least, not without an incredibly irresponsible surgeon. I don't wanna be banned for NSFW materials, so I can't post the pics here. But I did a google search trying to find actual women who have Bayonetta sized boobies. Google Kayla Kleevage.
Yes, I know she looks like a grandma. Yes, I know they're bigger than her head. And may I just point out that Bayonetta's breasts are about a foot and a half south of her head? In real life, those too would be grandma titties. Eck.
The point is, this crap isn't real. It's not a turn on to me, primarily for that reason. Now I love large breasts as much as the next guy, and I really don't care if they're natural or surgically enhanced so long as they look good. But some of these video game characters have bigger boobs than most porn stars and strippers out there. I mean, have you seen the boobie physics in Dead or Alive? It's too cartoonish to even be novelty-sexy! And the problem is that this doesn't exactly set up any real expectations for young boys who haven't yet learned to talk to girls. It doesn't do anything to prepare them for the real world, for real sexuality.
Now for 6. I don't think you understand the word "crutch" as a metaphor if you're willing to equate good literature to a crutch. Videogames as a whole have not yet displayed much good storytelling and character development anyway. And I can't remember a time when the plot, characterization, allusion and use of theme in a game blew me away but the gameplay itself sucked. It most definitely IS an insult to those of us who think that games can be art to slap some titties on a game to sell it. It's just like Ewe Boll throwing a bunch of breasts in the first 15 minutes of one of his movies, it's like an admission that you know what you've made is crap.
I am just saying given the age the characters are supposed to be you could of pick better examples like Seong Mina off the top of my head.RelexCryo said:
Nothing wrong with big boobs, but some games over exaggerate them too much. That coupled with the fact the character is usually wearing incredibly impractical armour that only covers a small part of their body makes the game less appealing to me. If you're into that sort of thing then fine, play those games but I'll pass.
In addition to what others said about big breasts making it hard to accept a game as a serious game with big breasts in it, there's also the case of other people. I like showing my favorite games to other people, but I know that if the female characters look that way, no one else will give them a chance.
OK, straight male who's going to disagree with a bunch of your points here. I'm sick to death of girls with giant racks and guys who look like the result of smooshing three roid-junkies together.
The fact that these characters are often doing things like going into battle wearing armour everywhere but their breasts (lookin' at you, Taki) illustrates how much their character has been compromised in an effort for fan service.
But for the sake of argument, let's assume that both male and female characters are hypersexualised versions of their gender - that's still not good enough. I don't read books which can't deal with nuanced sexuality, I don't watch movies which can't deal with nuanced sexuality. Why should all the AAA games get a pass for one-dimensional stereotyped males and females?
Tira:
Xianghua:
Both Talim and Amy, I'll give you, but have a look at the concept art [http://images.wikia.com/soulcalibur/images/1/17/Gilslm3.jpg] for the female characters and tell me that stupidly large breasts are in the minority again, I dare you.
This is common throughout games. The minimum for size for breasts seems to be about a C-cup in games. And that's reserved for young girls or virginal characters. If you think that in any way reflects reality, you're in for a lot of disappointment.
As seen by your suggesting that Tira is an example of a character with 'small or average breasts', constant unrealistic portrayal of 'beauty' can lead to unrealistic standards or expectations. Both for men and women.
Another, and more insidious, point is reflected in your comment later on:
Nope. Sorry Bioware, I get it with Jack - she's meant to be hyper-sexualised - but why is your warrior monk who has given up sex, family, and all her possessions dressing like a stripper? What the hell is going on that I'm supposed to believe in a character like that?
In the end, my issue isn't just with breasts. It's to do with the lack of realistic, non-hyper-sexualised characters of either gender.
By the arguments you've given above, it seems like you think that all movies would be better if they were made by these women [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/Breast_implants.JPG/800px-Breast_implants.JPG] NSFW - giant fake breasts.
Wow, that's a hell of a strawman. The issue is not that women are being viewed as sexual. It's that they're being view as nothing but sexual. Seriously, I'm not one to generally prattle on about objectification of women, but there's a hell of a lot of it in games - essentially women are treated as nothing more than a pair of tits in a ridiculous outfit. I don't object to breasts, but in the same way that I shouldn't need to know a male character's penis size unless it's relevant to the character, I feel that a female character who walks around spilling out of the corset three times too small for her and never behaves in an interesting or even remotely realistic way is an annoying distraction.RelexCryo said:
The fact that these characters are often doing things like going into battle wearing armour everywhere but their breasts (lookin' at you, Taki) illustrates how much their character has been compromised in an effort for fan service.
I think your response to this was based around suggesting that we should be OK with being attracted to abnormally large breasts. Which is fine. The problem for me is that they're simply abnormal. If you played an otherwise realistic game and all the characters had horns growing out of their foreheads for no reason, it would be odd right? Same with giant racks - quite often they're simple so large that the characters animate oddly - they'd literally be top heavy in real life. Going to all the effort of making a realistic character and then giving her unrealistic breasts is silly.
I disagree with this. There's plenty of ugly men in games - look at Marcus Fenix - grizzled, scarred, etc.
Ahhh... Now we're getting somewhere. Only not. Because there's actually some variety in males in most games. Again, think of Gears of War, Marcus and Dom might look like the result of some unholy union of protein powder and steroids, but there's male characters like the dill rig guy - (Dizzy was it?) who aren't so over the top. But female characters, the only named one I can think of was the queen, and even she was boobs o'clock [http://images.wikia.com/gearsofwar/images/d/db/Queen_myrrah.jpg]. Oh, Dom's wife doesn't have a rack, and we all know how things work out for her. (What? They don't have post-traumatic counselling on that planet?)
But for the sake of argument, let's assume that both male and female characters are hypersexualised versions of their gender - that's still not good enough. I don't read books which can't deal with nuanced sexuality, I don't watch movies which can't deal with nuanced sexuality. Why should all the AAA games get a pass for one-dimensional stereotyped males and females?
Now we get to the part which made me actually both replying. What crack are you smoking? Let's go through and look at what you're talking about.
Most of these characters actually have quite large breasts to begin with, especially on the frames that they have. I sounds a little insulting, but I think you've actually been rather brainwashed by games into thinking that 'average' breasts are a lot larger than is really the case. Let's have a look at some of those characters. Apologies for the giant images.
Tira:
Xianghua:
Both Talim and Amy, I'll give you, but have a look at the concept art [http://images.wikia.com/soulcalibur/images/1/17/Gilslm3.jpg] for the female characters and tell me that stupidly large breasts are in the minority again, I dare you.
This is common throughout games. The minimum for size for breasts seems to be about a C-cup in games. And that's reserved for young girls or virginal characters. If you think that in any way reflects reality, you're in for a lot of disappointment.
Once again, I don't really think this an argument that people use in the form that you've stated it. But there are a couple of points to it that have merit:
As seen by your suggesting that Tira is an example of a character with 'small or average breasts', constant unrealistic portrayal of 'beauty' can lead to unrealistic standards or expectations. Both for men and women.
Another, and more insidious, point is reflected in your comment later on:
The assumption that big breasts always equals attractive is incorrect. As others here have mentioned, not everyone is crazy for giant racks. In fact, culturally, preference for breast size has varied massively according to various trends. Additionally, there have been cultures which don't see breasts as sexual at all. The assumption that large breasts are always attractive is a standard that many players don't want to have to live up to.
This is too dumb to bother arguing against. Stupid games don't get better with tits, but that won't stop developers trying to add them. And more to the point, good games usually get worse with tits. Case in point: Mass Effect 2 - I'm supposed to believe a warrior-judge-monk who has come with you on a quest to kill someone very, very dangerous chooses to suit up in this:
Nope. Sorry Bioware, I get it with Jack - she's meant to be hyper-sexualised - but why is your warrior monk who has given up sex, family, and all her possessions dressing like a stripper? What the hell is going on that I'm supposed to believe in a character like that?
In the end, my issue isn't just with breasts. It's to do with the lack of realistic, non-hyper-sexualised characters of either gender.
By the arguments you've given above, it seems like you think that all movies would be better if they were made by these women [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/Breast_implants.JPG/800px-Breast_implants.JPG] NSFW - giant fake breasts.
Posting Pics or VideosFex Worldwide said:
Any pictures or videos that are vulgar, racist, hateful, or contain advertisements or nudity will be taken down immediately.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/codeofconduct
Should get rid of that link in your post.
But yes they are hideous.
And that's true, as long as you COMPLETELY ignore how frequently responses criticise guys just like Fenix.Sarahcidal said:
That would be like asking of big bewbd women like that shot of SC4 Ivy bothered anyone.
No?
Exactly.
Sure, I have to whitewash the argument to serve me, but still. I can totally establish that nobody is bothered by it.
Or I could be honest, and note I'm on a site where even the actual contributors to the site have complained about Fenix and company.
But your other argument was strong.
No, wait, it was a strawman. People aren't bothered by breasts in video games. They're bothered by RIDICULOUS breasts in video games. Chastising people for having a problem with breasts is probably more dishonest than saying nobody complains about Marcus Fenix and the "slab of meat" squad.
Of course, maybe your breasts are Triple Zs and completely defy gravity with the help of two one-inch strips of spandex, but...I kinda doubt it.
I suppose I could point out that you can build up how big your breasts look by doing pectoral exercises, but as for increasing the actual size of the breasts themselves, this is true to my knowledge. Of course there are many other aspects of attractiveness that are purely genetic, but I am willing to agree that is not totally equitable. I have no real solution to offer for that.SkyeNeko said:
Three words: Most common superpower [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MostCommonSuperPower].Fex Worldwide said:
But seriously, I think it was this site's own Moviebob who pointed out that nobody ever went broke marketing boobs to teenage boys.