Considering Cosby is now an old fart who got to be a scummy piece of shit for decades, free from prosecution or even suspicion, leaving countless victims in his wake, that justice is very bitter though.erttheking said:
Bill Cosby found Guilty
- Thread starter Lil devils x_v1legacy
- Start date
The Cosby Show ran for eight years. It was immensely popular, and put an image of a likable, upper-middle class African-American family into millions of homes. Prior to that, such images on television were virtually non-existent. At best, African-American TV characters might be cops or preachers or families struggling in the projects. The vast majority of the time, they were criminals.Samtemdo8 said:
[link]https://www.theroot.com/how-the-cosby-show-changed-the-game-for-blacks-on-tv-1790877119[/link]
Prior to that, Cosby used his power as a lead on I, Spy (itself a milestone- the show gave virtually equal footing to its black and white leads, premiering in 1965 and seeing several stations in southern states refuse to run it) to push for African-American stuntmen to perform stunts for his role.
[link]http://narrative.ly/the-stuntmen-who-blacklisted-blackface/[/link]
The things he did that changed the perception of African-American families and improved the status of African-American performers trying to break into the entertainment business are real.
And he was a talented, funny, and charismatic performer.
It's increasingly common to project people as being only the sum of the worst things they have done. It's comforting to our sensibilities to forget that bad people do good things and vice versa; that there are very few absolute saints or devils, much less among those who find their way at the forefront of public consciousness.
That said, there's ample evidence that Cosby was an unpleasant person outside of the limelight, even before the sexual assault allegations. He topped one list of the least pleasant celebrities to get an autograph from. He harassed the Golden Raspberry awards for not presenting him with an actual golden trophy. I personally heard anecdotes of him slighting people like horse-riding service trainers and pizza delivery-people (in one case allegedly ordering a stack of pizzas and then simply not being there when the delivery showed up.)
I'm not sorry that he was found guilty. I'm glad that in a setting where people are increasingly happy to present their accusations to the public and let a kind of vigilantism take place, this case actually went before a court and they seem to have come to the right conclusion (after Cosby's own confessions of his using drugs to have sex with women were made public, it's hard to see what other conclusion the jury could have come to). I'm glad those who suffered at his hands are feeling some vindication.
But I hope that the good he did- and there is some- persists, and is not ultimately forgotten.
Another one of those lovable father figure a lot of people assumed to be a nice guy, simply because he used to play one on television. Put on a sweater and everyone thought he was a harmless cuddly old man but he was anything but. I hope he goes to prison, it's where he belongs. Maybe someday Weinstein will be next.Or Spacey. Or Sheen. Or one of countless other rich brutes who thought they could get away with it.
I've also never presented the American public with a positive exemplar of an African-American family for eight years.jademunky said:
Were Cosby not so famous, he never could have done that.
It is also extremely likely that he never would have been in a position to do what he did to as many women as he is said to, nor have gotten away with it for so long.
I don't deny that Cosby's crimes are heinous, and our relationship with celebrity remains as @#$%ed up as ever, and that's unlikely to truly change.
But I'm also thinking beyond Cosby. People of less note, who have done significant good, have been pilloried for less.
No. There is treatment for HIV and he still has his freedom. He should be held accountable legally for his crimes along with everyone else who does this regardless of their wealth, social status or "power" over others. Far too long have people been able to get away with just about anything due to them being placed above the law. Until that changes, these things happening will not even begin to change.Samtemdo8 said:
Thank you. You are awesome sir or madam. My parents did not take it well when they found about Coby's crimes, but both did not dwell on it. It was sad either way.Lil devils x said:
And yet here you are, in the Cosby thread, talking about Cosby, and not about these hypothetical people being pilloried for less. (Maybe Hillary Clinton? Lol.)Callate said:
Here's the thing; marginalized groups have been trying to "endear" themselves to society for decades. And it hasn't worked. Did The Cosby Show help Dylan Roof and George Zimmerman see black people as fellow human beings whose rights should be respected and not monsters to be slain? Did Will and Grace make Trump less of a jackass to LGBTQ people?ObsidianJones said:
Oh for crying out loud.Agent_Z said:
First of all, Dylann Roof was born in 1994, which makes him way too young for whatever "Cosby effect" there may have been. He wouldn't have any such experience of attempted "endearment", but rather the Race War rhetoric of "Social Justice" that insists there is an irreconcilable antagonism between the "races". Crucially, that's the mainstream view now, taught in universities as "Critical Race Theory" and spreading downstream through media. His was just an extreme reaction to this deeply, deeply misguided dominant ideology.
Look, the point here is that people tend to respond positively to non-confrontational encounters, and in the absence of those, a fictional character may serve as some kind of substitute. That's not to say that they need to be excessively benign or virtuous. I mean, the gun-toting drug dealers in The Wire come across as relatable people (to me at least).
As for Trump, um, who can tell? It's not like he is discriminating about behaving like a jackass. One of his strengths, that.
Aren't you basically making a nirvana fallacy here? Just because racist arseholes still exist, doesn't mean all attempts to improve race relations over the decades have been futile. Are you so keen to throw the work of MLK (or any other influential activist or public figure) under the bus, just because shit isn't 100% fixed yet (though we sure seem to be better off on that score than the 60s)? Now, I don't know how important/influential Cosby's work really was (not American, and too young for his apparent prime), but to dismiss any potential good/inspirational influence he, or his media, has had just because some chucklefuck shot up a black church isn't really an argument in good faith imo.Agent_Z said:
There are a few things he has done.Samtemdo8 said:
Off the top of my head I know he has a very violent past as well as knowingly infecting partners without informing him of his STD status.
For example:
1)Repeated violence against women and children:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/charlie-sheen-dodges-jail-time-for-assault-on-wife-brooke-mueller/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2014/10/04/charlie-sheen-sued-over-incident-at-dentist/16718725/
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/charlie-sheen-and-his-abusive-past-the-case-of-ex-girlfriend-brittany-ashland/
https://www.denverpost.com/2009/12/25/actor-charlie-sheen-arrested-in-aspen/
https://pagesix.com/2016/01/22/denise-richards-suing-charlie-sheen-for-eviction-and-threatening-texts/
2)Intentionally and knowingly exposing people to HIV without telling them for one. You cannot go around knowing you are infected with an STD and not tell people you could be infecting them.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3653533/Authorities-Charlie-Sheen-admits-hid-HIV-status-two-sexual-partners.html
And does Papa Martin Sheen knows about this and/or is partly responsible for Charlie's violent past?Lil devils x said:
Each person is responsible for their own actions. If Martin Sheen was abusive he is responsible for that abuse just as much as Charlie Being responsible for the abuse he inflicted upon others. Being abused yourself does not suddenly exempt you from personal responsibility for the abuse you inflict upon others. Yes, it is sad when the abused then go on to abuse, but that does not excuse the actions they then take themselves. Ending the cycle of violence starts with each individual taking responsibility for their own actions.Samtemdo8 said:
One cause of universal bigotry is the uncontrollable fear of 'the other'. Are they like you? Do they have the same values? Can you trust them? All of that. Bill Cosby provided not only a look in an African American home, but routinely exposed a diverse culture to the heroes and the artists of the African American Community. Stevie Wonder appeared on it. Lena Horne as well. B.B. King. Sammy Davis Jr. Dizzy Gillespie. Actual giants in their arts.Agent_Z said:
But it can only do so much. Citing people who still committed racial or biased crimes does not diminish the impact of showing that African Americans were just like other families, just with different traditions. That's like criticizing Government because even though they had laws in place to punish Crime, All Crime hasn't stopped. There will always be segments of the world who will resist, hate, or destroy simply because that's what's in their heart. They'll justify it anyway they like, but still, rational people do not hate blindly towards a group of people because of one off bad experiences. I don't hate all cops, but I damn sure hate the cops that personally treated me wrongly.
Second, You can't deny how powerful positive or negative spin in media effects the world. When people say Welfare, most people think of Black people as recipients still, when the government still shows that in most aspects of concepts we consider as Welfare [https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/americans-welfare-perceptions-survey_us_5a7880cde4b0d3df1d13f60b] (Food Stamps, Medicaid, etc) go to white citizens. And then they'll break out proportionality because they can't just accept a smaller number.
Now, the truth is out there. But that proportionality thing will come about due to people who want to believe something more insidious. Others, who are just looking at facts would see "Oh, smaller number. Guess not blacks aren't the only people using welfare programs, or even using it the most.". Those with bias in their heart have to make that smaller number "make sense" or still seem bad because they just don't want to believe something than what they believe.
So, we'll get those "Blacks are only 13 percent of the population. Why is that number so big?!". And then you can trot out how school funding leaves minority schools destitute and there is no way out of that most of the time. People don't want to hear that. It's bullshit. If they wanted a way to get out, Blacks would pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
But what happens when you tell rich, white people that their children might be denied the resources they are used to?
Hilarity [https://www.theroot.com/watch-room-filled-with-rich-white-nyc-parents-gets-bi-1825600194].
The Cosby Show had a huge impact, I am not sure anyone can really deny that. I loved the show when I was growing up. When I think of it, I still laugh at the thought of a man giving birth to a giant sandwich. I think the pregnant men was the funniest episode. It is sad that he pretty much messed it up for everyone else on the show by being such a monster off the show. None of the cast of the Cosby Show deserves to have their show blackballed because of His horrific actions. Reality is though they are being punished for his actions as well as networks are not going to want to show re runs, people are not going to want to talk about the great work they did, no now they just want interviews to tell them " what did you know about what Cosby was doing to people?" and focus on that instead of the great work they deserve to be given credit for.ObsidianJones said:
You are spot on about how people behave when they realize they have to give equal access to resources rather than just hoard them all for themselves at the expense of others.
I'm kinda glad since I don't have to hear about it anymore... hopefully.
Admittedly, I was never the biggest Bill Cosby fan - I liked The Cosby Show but that was it. It was still a part of my childhood so it still stings...
Doesn't help that similar revelations over the past few years have left me with emotional scars and trust issues...
Admittedly, I was never the biggest Bill Cosby fan - I liked The Cosby Show but that was it. It was still a part of my childhood so it still stings...
Doesn't help that similar revelations over the past few years have left me with emotional scars and trust issues...
I heard his lawyer fell asleep during parts of the trial, setting up the grounds for an "ineffectiveness of counsel" defense for an appeal.Silentpony said:
While he was not obliged to take the stand in his own defense, that he did not has me thinking he really could be guilty. He is presumed innocent. He has been affirmatively accused of guilt. This requires a defense of which he offered, well, she is a crazy *****. Y'know what? A crazy ***** can be violated. That isn't enough of a defense.
A hit to my child hood perceptions. Next someone is going to tell me Richard Nixon really was a crook.