BioWare Defends Mass Effect 3 Launch-Day DLC

[Aprilgold]

Hey Bioware?

What about your loyal fans, or anyone else who wanted to wait for the demo of ME3 or previews and therefore can't get a CE? What about them? Now they have to pay for content and get shafted out of other content too.

Because its easy. Because they get more money. Because they want your money. Because they are no longer the holy grail of RPG developers. Trust me, I'm as pissed as you, but if it gives you money, it gives you money.

What's up with the use of "gamer entitlement" at every bioware thread now?

Everyone that disagree with the way bioware does business now are angry gamers with "gamer entitlement? Is that a new buzzword or what?

Haven't you heard, publishers are never ever wrong and can do no evil and can't sin and can't be bad and can't fuck their customers and can't be dicks and... I hope you know what I'm getting at.

I call bullshit on them saying that this was not made until it was getting shipped, complete bullshit. If it was in fact not made until the game was done, then how are Collectors Edition Owners getting their code? If not that then how did they script him in time. I'm pretty sure that he plays a huge part to the lore, so he would have to be written carefully to avoid fan outcry.

I don't see a way they could do this without it being worked on before hand.

Anyone who defends this needs to look at the wiki page on Protheans, and you'll get why people are pissed off and / or not buying the game anymore due to it. Its a fucking disgrace that they would do this to obviously cash in on the ending of the series. And I'm almost betting it was EA's decision to either cut or make the content.

Wiki page here:
http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Prothean

The steam offline feature works just fine for me.

it works fine if you set it to offline mode BEFORE you lose your connection. If you do lose it while connected it's a toss up on whether or not it's gonna actually work.[/quote]

Not for me, if I take out my interenet connection it will turn me straight to offline mode. Either people need to validate their steam cache [may be the issue] or get a better connection. Either or, I and many others don't have this problem, it seems like a majority does.

Basically what this is going to come down to sometime next week is basically what happened with the multiplayer. "OMGNOES NO MULTIPLAYER BAD EVIL BIOWARE DEVIL SATAN FAIL". then they played it "Hey, you know, it's not that bad." Probably about the same as what's going to happen with this DLC

Read the Wiki page on the protheans, then tell me people don't have a right to be pissed. Saying that this is not a bad or obvious money grab is very silly. Don't be blind to the fact that there is almost no reason for it to be a prothean, except for milk money from regular consumers who love this game. Multiplayer was a worry because it was taking a single player experience and making it online, a social experience. Large difference between a very important lore character then a extra mode.

 

[Syphith]

Because this is EA we're talking about. Someone commented on Youtube that EA = the Reapers. Pre EA Bioware is the Protheans, and Now Bioware is the Collectors.

And who in their right mind trusts a word EA says?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/critical-miss/8727-Dragon-Age-2

I love how some people think that EA is strong arming Bioware into all this stuff.

Had Bioware NOT been acquired by EA I can almost guarantee they would be THE EXACT SAME THINGS they are today.

Only because they're known to do things like this and worse. I see no reason in Bioware's history to think they'd be doing all they are today when it comes to chucking out unfinished games because of the very new "yearly development cycle" that publishers like EA have started to enforce on their developers. They're not the only ones doing it, but definitely one of the worst cases.

Above all else, I can definitely guarantee that Dragon Age 2 would not of been the buggy mess that it was or that Bioware would of been forced to design the game the way they did if there were allowed a more reasonable RPG development schedule. The obvious example being repetitive dungeons, even with maps not even fixed to represent the slight changes they made. (I.E. The random stuff they placed to block of paths)

Thankfully they weren't crazy enough to have Bioware pull a "Dragon Age 2" again. I mean, the outrage about DA2's release condition couldn't have anything to do with why Mass Effect 3 was delayed as long as it was, could it? It was right around the same time and definitely far longer than a normal delay in today's industry, but no, that couldn't be, could it? You seem to like to draw logical conclusions based on your devotion to Bioware, so I'll draw logical conclusions based on well...logic.

I can't think of a single reason in their history or at this time, other than "because other developers have started doing it" for Bioware to change as drastically as they have in recent years, other than EA's influence. As ALL EA owned developers have turned towards these methods. It was an EA company that first sold Cheat Codes as DLC as far back as that was and I definitely remember that causing some outrage. Point being, to deny the distinct possibility that EA is a major influence on a company they own, like Bioware, when it comes to any financially based decision, is just choosing to be deliberately ignorant of their track record and common sense.

 

[Forgetitnow344]

Expanding upon the game in a non-essential, elective way to get more playing time out of a game for a price that is a fraction of the game is always a bad idea. People are stupid for wanting things like Shivering Isles, Claptrap Revolutions, Dragon Age: Awakening, and Lair of the Shadow Broker.

I see where you're going with this...

Even though you butchered my post, I still think I am right.
It is, and always will be, done for money. If they really wanted to include it in the main game they could, just by keeping it in development a tad longer.
And even if they wished to keep working on it after release, they could sell it for either a minimal price or release it for free.

I bet that the promise of free DLCs would be a great selling point.

I'm sure games have always been made and released for money. Every game on the market that wasn't freeware the second it was finished has been made and released for money.

And what's your definition of minimal price? Shivering Isles, the best expansion pack in the last ten years, in particular was worth far more than $15. Is your argument that all expansions and DLC are just ploys for money?

 

[Syphith]

@ilovemyLunchbox
Not to intrude on your conversation with Spartan1362, but where are you getting the $15 from? Is that what you bought Shivering Isles for? Either way, I can definitely tell you that was not the price it was originally released at, as it was a typical 30 dollar expansion and is one I will definitely say was worth it's price. But it's also not really what he's talking about as it wasn't one of the more minimal, 10-15 dollar packs we mostly get today.

 

[Arakasi]

Expanding upon the game in a non-essential, elective way to get more playing time out of a game for a price that is a fraction of the game is always a bad idea. People are stupid for wanting things like Shivering Isles, Claptrap Revolutions, Dragon Age: Awakening, and Lair of the Shadow Broker.

I see where you're going with this...

Even though you butchered my post, I still think I am right.
It is, and always will be, done for money. If they really wanted to include it in the main game they could, just by keeping it in development a tad longer.
And even if they wished to keep working on it after release, they could sell it for either a minimal price or release it for free.

I bet that the promise of free DLCs would be a great selling point.

I'm sure games have always been made and released for money. Every game on the market that wasn't freeware the second it was finished has been made and released for money.

And what's your definition of minimal price? Shivering Isles, the best expansion pack in the last ten years, in particular was worth far more than $15. Is your argument that all expansions and DLC are just ploys for money?

No, but I believe that most are.
I can understand when they aren't planning to develop DLCs/have no current idea of what else to add to the game, but if they plan for it, then it's what kills it for me.

To me, it's the difference between pre-meditated murder and manslaughter.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Only because they're known to do things like this and worse. I see no reason in Bioware's history to think they'd be doing all they are today when it comes to chucking out unfinished games because of the very new "yearly development cycle" that publishers like EA have started to enforce on their developers. They're not the only ones doing it, but definitely one of the worst cases.

Above all else, I can definitely guarantee that Dragon Age 2 would not of been the buggy mess that it was or that Bioware would of been forced to design the game the way they did if there were allowed a more reasonable RPG development schedule. The obvious example being repetitive dungeons, even with maps not even fixed to represent the slight changes they made. (I.E. The random stuff they placed to block of paths)

Thankfully they weren't crazy enough to have Bioware pull a "Dragon Age 2" again. I mean, the outrage about DA2's release condition couldn't have anything to do with why Mass Effect 3 was delayed as long as it was, could it? It was right around the same time and definitely far longer than a normal delay in today's industry, but no, that couldn't be, could it? You seem to like to draw logical conclusions based on your devotion to Bioware, so I'll draw logical conclusions based on well...logic.

I can't think of a single reason in their history or at this time, other than "because other developers have started doing it" for Bioware to change as drastically as they have in recent years, other than EA's influence. As ALL EA owned developers have turned towards these methods. It was an EA company that first sold Cheat Codes as DLC as far back as that was and I definitely remember that causing some outrage. Point being, to deny the distinct possibility that EA is a major influence on a company they own, like Bioware, when it comes to any financially based decision, is just choosing to be deliberately ignorant of their track record and common sense.

I don't know why people choose to seemingly forget that Bioware pumped out like 6, with another 4+ on the way before the project got canned, so called "PREMIUM MODULES" for NWN 1 back in the day. All of them were ass short, overpriced, buggy, ADD NOTHING to the games plot.

Bioware was pulling the "useless, overpriced, PREMIUM CONTENT, what amounted to DLC back then" BS WAY before they were acquired by EA.

The thing is though it totally flopped back then because internet distribution blew, however with other companies doing it NOW and bioware's past attempts I find it HIGHLY likely they would be trying it again regardless of EA's meddling.


Ive been following Bioware since BG1 and I can safely say they haven't changed much at all, the only thing that has changed is the date and over that period of time people develop NOSTALGIA and it makes them think things were a way they really weren't back in the past.

 

[Syphith]

@SajuukKhar
I decided to look these up and honestly I don't really remember them. I never played much beyond Neverwinter Nights' original release, it definitely wasn't one of my favorites and I just didn't follow it because of that. I barely remember hearing about King Maker and Witch's Wake, but I do remember (And I am reminding myself through the Wiki) that most of these modules had absolutely no connection or value to the original Neverwinter Nights' plot. They were mostly entirely stand alone adventures that just happened to be designed within the Neverwinter Nights family. There were a couple that had some connection, but really, not much.

Though I will apologize and definitely will give you credit for this example. It's one I had entirely forgotten about, but now that you've reminded me, I definitely do remember how much people generally hated the idea. Which is why it doesn't surprise me that it failed and was dropped. You're right that the widespread nature of DLC today and the ease of access to any of it through PC and consoles are why it's more accepted, but the content is also different.

Even the module closest to the original NWN plot, doesn't compare with any of Bioware's DLC today. That's a major complaint many people have about DLC packs, they almost feel like they have to get them to feel like they've gotten a complete story or experience because they feature the same characters and are often closely tied to major plot points or lore from the universe. Many also even affect the next game in the series to some degree. While I'm not saying they all do this and I personally don't have this problem, I understand the issue. Almost any DLC from Bioware's current series, are more connected to their respective game's main plot, than any of those Neverwinter Nights modules were.

Either way, while I don't think it entirely compares, good example. But unless you have more, I still don't really think that's enough to say Bioware definitely would be going as far with DLC as they are today, without EA. Also while the "everyone else is doing it" excuse does have it's validity in today's market and explains at least partially why Bioware jumped back on that bandwagon, it doesn't make it right.

 

[SajuukKhar]

I have yet to play a DLC from Bioware or Bethesda that I felt was needed to get the a full games story.

People keep acting like bioware does it all the time but I cannot think of ONE DLC that was needed to complete the base games plot.

I also find it odd that people think that because Bioware has made these optional, non-essential DLC that they are magically gonna start removing entire chucks of the game later.

 

[Lenriak]

As far as I'm concerned... if a game gets a certain amount of development budget, ANYTHING created and paid for with that budget should be on disc. Day 1 DLC free for any brand new copy is the only piece of DLC that is acceptable in my eyes, I get that they're trying to fight used-copies sales in a relatively hassle free way. Don't think it should be valued at $10 if it isn't really worth that (if that DLC contains the equivalent of 1/4 of the full games content then fair enough - otherwise I think its a little fucking overpriced - same goes for any piece of DLC).
ANY AND ALL DLC (with exception to the Day 1 piece) should be created with ADDITIONAL FUNDS (y'know, money earned from... ooh I dunnooo ACTUALLY SELLING THE BLOODY GAME).

When I buy a game, I want a full game... not an extended ad for $200 worth of additional crap.

 

[LongMuckDong]

It's threads such as this that make me sit smug, latte in hand, swooning over my CE pre-order slip...


*swoons*
*sips*.

 

[Richardplex]

It's threads such as this that make me sit smug, latte in hand, swooning over my CE pre-order slip...


*swoons*
*sips*.

Well, Digital Deluxe Edition and Earl Grey Tea for me, but same thing.


And guys, Zeel went around page 22, why is this thread still going?

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

There is no "defence". BioWare have been EA'd, online passes and paid Day 1 DLC to stifle used games market and punish customers. The ONLY thing the dev team should have been doing AFTER the game went gold, BEFORE it's release is fixing bugs, quality control and working on a patch. Day 1 PATCH, fine. Day 1 DLC, give it away for free or shut your mouths trying to defend it, money grabbing gits. I'm not buying it. You've pushed your luck too far EA. I went along with it for ME2, but push your origin nonsense on me, in addition to the above, no more!

 

[Zac Smith]

BioWare Defends Mass Effect 3 Launch-Day DLC



He also noted that development on From Ashes did not begin "until well after the main game went into certification," a point Executive Producer Casey Hudson expanded on through Twitter [https://twitter.com/#!/CaseyDHudson].

And yet, it's managed to find it's way onto the collector's edition but not the standard? People are not angry that there is day one DLC, what they are angry about is that even those that go out on release day to buy a brand new copy of the game, they get nothing more then someone who waits a few months for the price to drop. They should do what they did with Mass Effect 2, with the Cerberus Network and Zaheed. People who go out and buy brand new copies to support to developer will feel exactly the same as the people who buy used and have to pay for online passes. Don't screw your loyal customers, they're then ones giving you money, treat them with respect and dignity

 

[Llamazoid]

Are you sure; This is the information I went off of back when I ordered the DLC from Amazon (and when I checked at Gamestop). It was identical to the information at Bioware and the forums at the time of announcement.

A person is expected to do research of a product before he or she buys it, you should never take what ONE place like Amazon says to be 100% accurate information.

Wow.. you are a true piece of garbage who can't read. I clearly stated I checked 3 places, including bioware own CE announcement forum pages, and not once was a bonus character announced anywhere.

But go on.. keep on coming up with the lies to make your argument look better, trash.

A tad harsh, the only place I couldn't find the ME3 Collectors Edition with all the information was Amazon, however there was video. I found all the information at several locations that identified a extra mission and character before I preordered my copy before January.

This includes:

Trueachievements news feed
http://www.trueachievements.com/n4056/mass-effect-3-n7-collectors-edition-update.htm

Masseffect.com
http://masseffect.com/about/collectors/

Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/gp/mpd/permalink/mM9112A5BIV4J/ref=ent_fb_link

GAME (They've since updated the page than when I originally viewed it, but the information is still there.)
http://www.game.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/HubArticleView?hubId=93018&articleId=137297&catalogId=10201&langId=44&storeId=10151&cm_sp=masseffect-_-topnav-_-masseffect3

So yeah, the information was definitely out there.

 

[zinho73]

Dissecting what people are saying about the DLC:

1. The content is essential to the plot!
Nobody knows for sure, but it is likely not essential to understand the plot or finish the game properly. That said, a Prothean character is something much more close to the central plot of the series than other DLC characters in the past.

2. Day 1 DLC is not new. Why people are surprised?
Because every case is different. Companies are trying to push DLC in several forms, trying to gauge our limits. In the case of Mass Effect series, this is the first time that gameplay content is not ready available to everyone for free at launch.

3. I bought the CE. Why you should have for free what I have paid for?
We shouldn?t. But you also cannot blame people for being upset. This kind of content does not belong to a Collector?s edition simply because it is not a collectible ? it is gameplay content. EA is trying to add value to the CE and at the same time make easy cash at launch. It is a terrible strategy to build good will and some people will undoubtedly be pissed about it.

4. If EA waited a few months nobody would say a thing.
This would be true if the content wasn?t in the CE. Since it is, not making it available would be worse, much worse.

5. Boycotting doesn?t change a thing.
Boycotting is not about change, it is about principles. And, sometimes, it does change and it is awesome.

6. If you do not want the content, just don?t buy it. What´s the big deal?
People WANT the content. They just do not agree with the way it was made available (either because of price or other motives).

7. People should be grateful because Bioware made the content available.
This is just crazy talk. Consumers should never be grateful because a company is trying to sell something to them. EA is not being kind, they are trying to make more money at launch.

8. I have the extra money and/or already bought the CE so I don?t care.
If you do not care, you shouldn?t be reading this post and you shouldn?t post yourself. Discussing things in the forums is for people that care about the issue, one way or the other.

9. EA is evil.
They are not, but they sure are greedy and they are very bad at balancing the whole making money thing with consumer satisfaction. This day1 DLC looks even worse if you compare what other companies like Bethesda and CD project are offering (and they are still making money in the process).

10. The multiplayer thing is the new Zaeed (a device to reduce piracy and used games sales).
It might be, but it is another terrible idea ? a multiplayer component in a single player series. It might be cool and all, but it does not have the same appeal as a story element in a game about story. Again, this is not a reward; this is a tentative to appeal to a broader audience.
Man, if you want to reward consumers, just give them something without any ulterior motives (other than to please your fanbase), otherwise it is a scam.

11. Making the DLC costs money, so it shouldn?t be given for free.
EA does not need the DLC to recoup any money. DLCs (specially day1) will give them more money and are built simply to milk the cow. In any case, if they needed to sell it (or wanted to), they could have removed it from the CE and sold it a few months later.

12. But if it?s ready why wait?
Well, this is marketing 101 and it?s called overflow. Selling things at the right time builds trust and can even give you more money. Put it simply ? people are more willing to pay 60 now and 10 later, than paying 70 now (it is way more complex than that and yes, it is not completely logical, but people rarely are).

13. Call me when companies charge me to get the end of the game.
It is already happening; Final Fantasy XIII-2 is doing exactly that. I guess we are way passed the hour to complain if we think some DLC is abusive - mostly because it almost always is, but also because the line that separates what is reasonable from what is not is subjective and will affect each one differently.

To sum up: I guess the ?Biowhiners? can be dramatic at times (CONTENT HELD AT HANSOM!), but they have the right to be as long it doesn?t evolve to personal attacks. On the ?Biodrones? side I applaud the ones that are trying to discuss things and I?m really sad for the ones that just want people to ?shut up?. Consumers should not shut up ever and we should fight fiercely for our money ? that?s exactly what the companies are doing after all.

 

[The Forces of Chaos]

http://www.gamestop.com/xbox-360/dlc/mass-effect-3-from-ashes-dlc/99108

Dam their marketing is ill-timed to say the least. Still I can't wait to try it in the collectors edition. Anyone know if the new weapon is available for the multiplayer ? And are the new appearance for every member in addition to the ones on the collectors edition ?

 

[zinho73]

http://www.gamestop.com/xbox-360/dlc/mass-effect-3-from-ashes-dlc/99108

Dam their marketing is ill-timed to say the least. Still I can't wait to try it in the collectors edition. Anyone know if the new weapon is available for the multiplayer ? And are the new appearance for every member in addition to the ones on the collectors edition ?

The outfits are in addition to.

 

[The Forces of Chaos]

http://www.gamestop.com/xbox-360/dlc/mass-effect-3-from-ashes-dlc/99108

Dam their marketing is ill-timed to say the least. Still I can't wait to try it in the collectors edition. Anyone know if the new weapon is available for the multiplayer ? And are the new appearance for every member in addition to the ones on the collectors edition ?

The outfits are in addition to.

Cool thanks Zinho73, More to look forward to. I'm literally salivating at the prospect. March cant get here fast enough.