Bioware: Next Mass Effect on "The Right Track"

[heroicbob]

maybe its because i played the entire series after the whole ending controversy thing happened but i thought mass effect 3 was fine, certainly not as good as mass effect 2 but that is setting the bar pretty damn high

i did dislike the ending given that it contradicted something that had happened half way through the game but if you made different choices i guess it might make sense

still why are they making a new mass effect game? that story's over why not just make a new science fiction series

 

[GAunderrated]

maybe its because i played the entire series after the whole ending controversy thing happened but i thought mass effect 3 was fine, certainly not as good as mass effect 2 but that is setting the bar pretty damn high

i did dislike the ending given that it contradicted something that had happened half way through the game but if you made different choices i guess it might make sense

still why are they making a new mass effect game? that story's over why not just make a new science fiction series

Well yes you will have lower expectations if you wern't invested in the story over several years. People are mad because they were promised a great experience, meaningful choices, and the developer actually had the talent to back it up the promises. Instead they opted for the cheap and lazy way out hollywood style.

Turning what could have been a meaningful trilogy into another washout series that has a bland story that will never end and marginal gameplay improvements (God of war, Assisins creed, and Gears of War comes to mind while there are dozens more that are trying the franchise route).

 

[McKitten]

Let's ignore ME3 and other previous Bioware experiences for a second. Let's just take unbiased looked.


So, we've got the guys from Bioware going: "Hey! Psst! We've got this game! Wanna buy it? It'll be aaaawesome!
What, show it to you? Nah, we can't do that. But we've seen, and we know it's awesome, you should totally trust us on that!"


And that's supposed to make me optimistic about the game quality? Yeah, fuck that. If it were any good, they wouldn't talk about it, they'd post footage on youtube. They're trying to drum up hype without showing any content. I bet they know the game can't sell on its quality alone so they're laying the groundwork for a massive marketing campaign asap.

 

[Palora]

The developer claims that the game they are developing is going to be awesome, WHAT A SHOCK!

 

[Trunkage]

Couldn't the "Shepherd saga" be continued like it was in Citadel DLC? Another copy?
The ending of ME3 was as bad as ME1 - you killing Saren helps destroy Sovereign? How does that make any sense?

 

[jklinders]

I think I'm just going to leave this here.

Pretty much sums up all I have to say in regards to the myth that the people who hated the ME3 endings are a "vocal minority"

http://youtu.be/gu731UtTFqo

Also, how does one add the spoilers tag on the forums?

The guy that made a huge video rant about how Citadel wasn't want the audience wanted right before it was released and it turned out to be EXACTLY what the audience wanted?

Indeed. i watched that video last year to see if it was really the smoking gun that it was made out to be. In looking at the source of the data in a way that is not looking for affirmation of a previously held belief the methods used to come to the conclusions he did were seriously flawed. the largest data samples came from the BSN. Which is a venue filled with...extremely vocal people who voice their opinions vocally. by the time he collected that info anyone who did not feel ridiculously emotional over the ending had already stopped posting and looking there. Not a very representative sample.

Most of the public polls that this guy used were not at all scientific, not monitored for sock accounts and are pretty unreliable. Lots of folks spent a lot of effort in being unhappy.

the ending was crap. It did not destroy the franchise. It did not destroy the game. Hell Thessia pissed me off way more than the endings. loss of all player agency to a cutscene with a FF inspired villain wearing plot armour.

Also the obsession with the "indoctrination theory" with all of it's even more massive plot holes and problems destroys Clever Noobs credibility and exposes their bias.

 

[Megalodon]

I think I'm just going to leave this here.

Pretty much sums up all I have to say in regards to the myth that the people who hated the ME3 endings are a "vocal minority"

http://youtu.be/gu731UtTFqo

Also, how does one add the spoilers tag on the forums?

The guy that made a huge video rant about how Citadel wasn't want the audience wanted right before it was released and it turned out to be EXACTLY what the audience wanted?

Indeed. i watched that video last year to see if it was really the smoking gun that it was made out to be. In looking at the source of the data in a way that is not looking for affirmation of a previously held belief the methods used to come to the conclusions he did were seriously flawed. the largest data samples came from the BSN. Which is a venue filled with...extremely vocal people who voice their opinions vocally. by the time he collected that info anyone who did not feel ridiculously emotional over the ending had already stopped posting and looking there. Not a very representative sample.

Most of the public polls that this guy used were not at all scientific, not monitored for sock accounts and are pretty unreliable. Lots of folks spent a lot of effort in being unhappy.

the ending was crap. It did not destroy the franchise. It did not destroy the game. Hell Thessia pissed me off way more than the endings. loss of all player agency to a cutscene with a FF inspired villain wearing plot armour.

Also the obsession with the "indoctrination theory" with all of it's even more massive plot holes and problems destroys Clever Noobs credibility and exposes their bias.

I think you're missing the point of the video a bit. There was no data, of any quality, to support the Bioware PR position of "you guys who are unhappy with the ending are in the minority". If Bioware had data to support their view, why keep it to themselves? It would have been a useful justification for the line thier PR took. As opposed to helping solidify the distaste for the company in the eyes of their disillusioned fans (of which there were and are a fair few, whatever your stance on the issue).

 

[jklinders]

I think I'm just going to leave this here.

Pretty much sums up all I have to say in regards to the myth that the people who hated the ME3 endings are a "vocal minority"

http://youtu.be/gu731UtTFqo

Also, how does one add the spoilers tag on the forums?

The guy that made a huge video rant about how Citadel wasn't want the audience wanted right before it was released and it turned out to be EXACTLY what the audience wanted?

Indeed. i watched that video last year to see if it was really the smoking gun that it was made out to be. In looking at the source of the data in a way that is not looking for affirmation of a previously held belief the methods used to come to the conclusions he did were seriously flawed. the largest data samples came from the BSN. Which is a venue filled with...extremely vocal people who voice their opinions vocally. by the time he collected that info anyone who did not feel ridiculously emotional over the ending had already stopped posting and looking there. Not a very representative sample.

Most of the public polls that this guy used were not at all scientific, not monitored for sock accounts and are pretty unreliable. Lots of folks spent a lot of effort in being unhappy.

the ending was crap. It did not destroy the franchise. It did not destroy the game. Hell Thessia pissed me off way more than the endings. loss of all player agency to a cutscene with a FF inspired villain wearing plot armour.

Also the obsession with the "indoctrination theory" with all of it's even more massive plot holes and problems destroys Clever Noobs credibility and exposes their bias.

I think you're missing the point of the video a bit. There was no data, of any quality, to support the Bioware PR position of "you guys who are unhappy with the ending are in the minority". If Bioware had data to support their view, why keep it to themselves? It would have been a useful justification for the line thier PR took. As opposed to helping solidify the distaste for the company in the eyes of their disillusioned fans (of which there were and are a fair few, whatever your stance on the issue).

And so we counter no data with flawed data. Because that was the actual point of the video which by extension means it had no point. I saw the "point" of that video quite clearly. It was a "fan creation" with made up crap for stats to flog and alternative ending that was never intended by Bioware. It tried to legitimize the idea that artists cannot control their own work. the endings were what they were and people still moan about it over a year afterwards.

 

[Megalodon]

And so we counter no data with flawed data.

Then how are Bioware meant to recieve fan feedback, which they claimed to welcome at one point, if these polls are worthless? While potentially wrong, they have a better chance of being accurate than just pulling a viewpoint out of thin air.

We have a situation where Bioware claim that they're listening to fan input, only to then assert that what appears to be the majority view isn't. So either they have absolutely no basis to the "you are in a minority" claim, or they have data supporting their view, but are keeping it to themselves, which doesn't seem like a sensible idea to me.

Because that was the actual point of the video which by extension means it had no point. I saw the "point" of that video quite clearly. It was a "fan creation" with made up crap for stats to flog and alternative ending that was never intended by Bioware. It tried to legitimize the idea that artists cannot control their own work. the endings were what they were and people still moan about it over a year afterwards.

Now this is the only Clever Noobs video I've watched, but you're attributing them an agenda that I just don't see in the video itself. The video only lists the polls they tracked down and the results of those polls, with a little speculation at the end that the fans won't let it go unless Bioware do a better job of fixing it. Now you can disagree with that speculation but the only "flogging" of the Indoctrination Theorey in that video was them onberving that it was a popular option in those polls.

 

[AuronFtw]

We'd lose our shit? So, what, ME4 details the adventures of StarChild, amazing deus ex machina setpiece with no continuity or relevance to anyone else's plot, just wandering from NPC protagonist to NPC protagonist forcing him to press buttons to get different colored wallpapers to show?

Fantastic!

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

I wonder if the comment was about the gameplay or the story/character. If it was the story/character, then the guy saw something familiar. If it was gameplay, who knows what he saw.

 

[Austin Manning]

It tried to legitimize the idea that artists cannot control their own work. the endings were what they were and people still moan about it over a year afterwards.

Bioware already legitimized that artists can't control their own work when they took Drew Karpyshyn(the series lead writer) off of Mass Effect 3 and replaced him with people who ignored all of the plot devices, foreshadowing, and character arcs that he'd set up.

 

[endplanets]

These articles always strike me as kinda weird. I want to be all excited, and the game is almost assured to be awesome, but all this post says is "the developers think production is going well and their game is great". As opposed to all the developers who say "our game sucks".
All though there are plenty of developers who actually do say "our development is hellish, but the game will be good".

 

[Matthi205]

It tried to legitimize the idea that artists cannot control their own work. the endings were what they were and people still moan about it over a year afterwards.

Bioware already legitimized that artists can't control their own work when they took Drew Karpyshyn(the series lead writer) off of Mass Effect 3 and replaced him with people who ignored all of the plot devices, foreshadowing, and character arcs that he'd set up.

There's my biggest problem with ME3: most of the characters acted what I perceived then as "strange" and not how that character would usually react. The ending was just the tip of the iceberg: it was disappointing and didn't show anything that happened afterwards (well, nothing significant, anyway).

An example:
The Illusive Man, even if indoctrinated, wouldn't have acted this way... something the new writers neglected, thoroughly. To the old Illusive Man, Shepard was an invaluable asset for humanity that he didn't want to lose at any price, that he wanted to have on his side to work with him rather than against him. Even indoctrinated, he would have tried to hold Shepard as long as possible, and continued his normal behavior of not telling Shepard more details than the ones she needed to know. This was the most "odd" part of TIM's behavior in Mass Effect 3: he spoke to Shepard, and actually explained stuff... reasoned. Something the old Illusive Man wouldn't have done. He would have provided Shepard with just enough data to go on to work for him rather than against his cause.

 

[Snotnarok]

I'm not trying to be insulting with this but I think so many are far too critical on games and they have 2 scores for games, crap and amazing, there's no middle ground or points between and it's kind of jarring.
I'm sure there's people who've put over 300 hours into the ME series in it's entirety with replaying and all that jazz and are now calling the series shit because of a 15 minute ending that wasn't what they expected or wanted.
I think the truth of the matter is given such a vast and popular series there wasn't going to be anyone satisfied despite that, and yes I've heard it boils down to all your effort was shot down, well that's life sometimes and again given there's no series like this and it did over a hundred hours of entertainment on average with fun characters, fun events, amusing gameplay I don't think perspective is being taken here.

I'm not trying to defend the series, like what you like but it's just an interesting thing to me to see the lack of middle ground these days. You can't even rate a Nintendo game a 8 without people raging because it's Zelda or Mario and they don't do anything less than amazing.

 

[magnetite2]

I saw Extended Ending, but read up on the original ending. But I've seen people complain about how your choices didn't effect the game and I didn't get that honestly.

People are in disagreement over what the word "ending" means. Most people that were upset belived all these choices would affect the last 5 minutes of the game. What really happened was their choices affected the game as a whole. I mean with a game that has over 1000 variables shaping the third game, how could they wrap all that up in the last 5 minutes?

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/258534/mass-effect-3-to-follow-over-1000-story-variations/

If you look at the entire game as the end of the trilogy, then yeah, there's tons of different variations it can play out. Yeah the last 5 minutes might be kind of similar, but the entire game plays out differently.

For example, if you didn't do a mission in the first game, someone in the third game will die. I won't say who it was, but if you did the mission in the first game, then he'll live. That's just one example of choices impacting the story.

As for the whole ABC thing, if you just play the third game (no import), there may only be one ending (destroy), so I don't see an ABC ending promise there.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/16992625/4#16995510

^ This guy seems to have a more level head on the ending subject.

I was not upset over the ending personally. I think the ending was absolutely brilliant. It just requires a bit of thought and using your imagination and some logic to fill in the blanks. Oh, and not taking the ending at face value. Very important.

I'm personally looking forward to the next game.

 

[IronMit]

maybe its because i played the entire series after the whole ending controversy thing happened but i thought mass effect 3 was fine, certainly not as good as mass effect 2 but that is setting the bar pretty damn high

i did dislike the ending given that it contradicted something that had happened half way through the game but if you made different choices i guess it might make sense

still why are they making a new mass effect game? that story's over why not just make a new science fiction series

It may be because you played them all after as you said.
Some other people were invested into the story, thought it through, read theories, and were quite aware of what was and was not possible in the Mass effect universe.
So when there were sudden macguffins, contrivances and plotholes it immediately stood out.

why a new mass effect game? money. It's an established franchise that some people are still invested it. It will market itself. it's a safe bet/ low risk. New IPs are risky.

 

[BoredRolePlayer]

I saw Extended Ending, but read up on the original ending. But I've seen people complain about how your choices didn't effect the game and I didn't get that honestly.

People are in disagreement over what the word "ending" means. Most people that were upset belived all these choices would affect the last 5 minutes of the game. What really happened was their choices affected the game as a whole. I mean with a game that has over 1000 variables shaping the third game, how could they wrap all that up in the last 5 minutes?

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/258534/mass-effect-3-to-follow-over-1000-story-variations/

If you look at the entire game as the end of the trilogy, then yeah, there's tons of different variations it can play out. Yeah the last 5 minutes might be kind of similar, but the entire game plays out differently.

For example, if you didn't do a mission in the first game, someone in the third game will die. I won't say who it was, but if you did the mission in the first game, then he'll live. That's just one example of choices impacting the story.

As for the whole ABC thing, if you just play the third game (no import), there may only be one ending (destroy), so I don't see an ABC ending promise there.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/16992625/4#16995510

^ This guy seems to have a more level head on the ending subject.

I was not upset over the ending personally. I think the ending was absolutely brilliant. It just requires a bit of thought and using your imagination and some logic to fill in the blanks. Oh, and not taking the ending at face value. Very important.

I'm personally looking forward to the next game.

Yeah that's what threw me for a loop while playing ME3 (which was last week) I was seeing how some scenes could be different depending on how you played the first two. Like when ***** helped you fight Kia Lang I was wondering "What would have happened if he had died". There were other moments like that where if I did things differently it could have played out differently (Like when I tried to once again punch out the reporter she seemed to dodge a move she saw coming from the second game). But yeah I think your choices affect the journey not the end soooooo....yeah

 

[jklinders]

And so we counter no data with flawed data.

Then how are Bioware meant to recieve fan feedback, which they claimed to welcome at one point, if these polls are worthless? While potentially wrong, they have a better chance of being accurate than just pulling a viewpoint out of thin air.

We have a situation where Bioware claim that they're listening to fan input, only to then assert that what appears to be the majority view isn't. So either they have absolutely no basis to the "you are in a minority" claim, or they have data supporting their view, but are keeping it to themselves, which doesn't seem like a sensible idea to me.

Because that was the actual point of the video which by extension means it had no point. I saw the "point" of that video quite clearly. It was a "fan creation" with made up crap for stats to flog and alternative ending that was never intended by Bioware. It tried to legitimize the idea that artists cannot control their own work. the endings were what they were and people still moan about it over a year afterwards.

Now this is the only Clever Noobs video I've watched, but you're attributing them an agenda that I just don't see in the video itself. The video only lists the polls they tracked down and the results of those polls, with a little speculation at the end that the fans won't let it go unless Bioware do a better job of fixing it. Now you can disagree with that speculation but the only "flogging" of the Indoctrination Theorey in that video was them onberving that it was a popular option in those polls.

Every dev says they listen to fan feedback. Bioware did as well. They at their own expense did the Ec. It didn't satisfy everyone? Boo hoo. Seriously. They did more with the EC then most would have bothered to but because they did not buy into the fanbases pet conspiracy theory they were not listening? Any other pieces of flawed logic you want to toss in for good measure.

Bioware screwed up with the original ending. I feel that if the EC was released first we would not be bickering about this. They fixed by explaining themselves while keeping their integrity intact. Yet this is somehow violating their integrity. Frankly the IT theory folks confuse the heck out of me.

Clever Noobs whinged about IT for a good 40% of their video. their agenda was clear to me even if it was not to you. Just giving my opinion here but it was backed up by Clever Noobs own focus on their video. IT was the most riduculous and stupid fan theory out there. For every plot hole it filled it created three. Popular does not mean good and just because the fan base wanted it to be the real ending doesn't mean they get their wish. There are mods for the so called happy ending. For those who want those I suggest using them.

 

[jklinders]

It tried to legitimize the idea that artists cannot control their own work. the endings were what they were and people still moan about it over a year afterwards.

Bioware already legitimized that artists can't control their own work when they took Drew Karpyshyn(the series lead writer) off of Mass Effect 3 and replaced him with people who ignored all of the plot devices, foreshadowing, and character arcs that he'd set up.

It was created by Drew but not owned by him. He also did not create it alone. There were three lead writers in ME. And a whole boatload of secondary writers.

Besides his books sucked. Good game content by an average writer. His original ending idea about human DNA being somehow key to the dark energy eating the universe voodoo sounded like it came out of a fever dream invented out the vapours of one of L. Ron Hubbard's cocaine binges. Drew was shunted aside because his vision was in the minority of the writing team. I have seen no indication that it was anything else.