Bioware, Please Make A Plus-Sized Female Dragon Age Character!

[Erttheking]

Well I saw the title and predicted this.

No thanks. We want IDEALIZED people in these games, not realistic ones. They are all basically superheroes.

I want them exceptionally smart or strong and probably all good looking in their own way. This is my OPINION and my PREFERENCE, and there is no right answer.

I DO NOT WANT FAT CHARACTERS ANY MORE THAN I WANT FAT PEOPLE IN THE WORLD. It is one of the least appealing traits a human being can have and is such a chronic problem in America that the current trend is to just justify it and "feel good" about yourself while the world literally dies from the effects of obesity through diabetes and heart disease.

Superheroes are boring. I want people. People with flaws. Saying that every character needs to be super idealized, even if you're just talking about the Bioware games, that is EXTREMLY limiting. I'm not saying this from a social standpoint, I'm saying this from a writing standpoint. Having every character be idealized is boring. Not exploring things like this limits the things you can go down with characters. I think we have enough beautiful people already. It's becoming an annoying cliche.

And when the rest of the 1st world stops having obesity problems too, it'll be relevant to single out America.

 

[Something Amyss]

No matter WHAT you're capable of being physically fit will make you a better fighter.

Please tell me how you came to this conclusion about fantasy material. Do muscles help my psychic powers?

Aside: Haven't played too much DAI but isn't Iron Bull all muscle or something?

Well, keep in mind that there may be a perception issue because I'm looking at Bull through the same standards by which we judge women. He's "fat" in the same sense that people have implied the author is fat, which is to say not really. But if a woman has the same kind of bulk in a game or a movie or whatever, she's a cow (ironic, with Iron BULL as an example) or ugly, or something similar.

Though honestly, I've seen people complain about pro wrestles getting fat for showing less belly and man-boob (qunariboob?) than IB does. This also fits in with the military comparison.

You can be entirely polite when being dismissive, which is precisely what I was, and I also elaborated on my point reasonably.

I disagree. But I don't think trying to elaborate will get me anywhere, so I'll leave it at that.

You could, however, made the same point without the dismissal. I would argue the point would have been better because it didn't start off by immediately disregarding the person in question.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

Well If you want your comment thread to explode, just mention anything to do with diversity, female cosplay and/or a word that can be misinterpereted easily by people that cannot be arsed to read any more than the heading of an article for their snap-judgement and here we go!
This is going to be fun.

 

[Redryhno]

Im sorry but unless bioware decides to turn away from epic war stories and focus on the common day to day live of peasants in the dragon age world a "plus size" character makes no fucking sense.

Are you serious? How much royalty do you see in the Dragon Age games? The setting is based on the middle ages where larger women were considered more attractive. There was a lot of plus-sized people in royalty.

We've already got plenty of characters who don't make sense. We've got rake thin women with no muscle (and large breasts) decked out in armor who are portrayed as strong and competent fighters. Fun fact, for most women, the more muscle you put on, and the more weight you lose, the smaller your breasts get, since breast are mostly fat.

Look at heavyweight wrestling, mma, boxing or whatever. You've got women far bigger than anything you see in games (with the only exception I can think of being Hammer from Fable).

Beyond that, the world is full of mages and aristocrats who don't have any need to be phsyically fit, as I mentioned be, the latter of which is actually unlikely to be.

This is also the middle ages where being gay or trans were a madman's ideas in the best of circumstances...I've already been told that pretty much everyone being completely accepting of both is ok because it's a fantasy land. So I'm gonna say the same thing here.

It's a fantasy world where idealized bodies are the norm and people being fat/heavy/etc. were never considered attractive or encouraged in any way, shape, or form, and regular exercise was if you were privileged enough to, otherwise you just starved because you didn't have the money to eat, so there's your answer. You want heavier woman models, go play Fable, there's honestly plenty of them there other than Hammer.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I think we have enough beautiful people already.

This is """""plus-sized""""" Liana Kerzner.

She has the body type of every female videogame character ever made. Her personal lament is completely uncalled for. It's like having The Rock complain he can't cosplay as any Gears of War characters.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

This is also the middle ages where being gay or trans were a madman's ideas in the best of circumstances...I've already been told that pretty much everyone being completely accepting of both is ok because it's a fantasy land. So I'm gonna say the same thing here.

It's a fantasy world where idealized bodies are the norm and people being fat/heavy/etc. were never considered attractive or encouraged in any way, shape, or form, and regular exercise was if you were privileged enough to, otherwise you just starved because you didn't have the money to eat, so there's your answer. You want heavier woman models, go play Fable, there's honestly plenty of them there other than Hammer.

Oh, I'm not saying that you need to have a world where the nobility is overweight and this is the ideal for beauty, I'm just saying that it's patently not unrealistic to have larger characters in your medieval world. Not to mention, the peasantry is probably the last place that would make any sense for people to be overweight.

That being said, I think you're reading too much into what was probably just a utilitarian and marketing choice. I doubt that this was supposed to be some justified, ingrained aspect of the world, it was just most likely something thrown in there to limit the types of character models they need to animate, and avoid upsetting those people who don't like worlds with fat people in them. It's like saying all the women had pretty faces because they have meticulous breeding rules for beauty to weed out the ugly genes. They have pretty women because most of their customers like looking at pretty women

 

[Qizx]

No matter WHAT you're capable of being physically fit will make you a better fighter.

Please tell me how you came to this conclusion about fantasy material. Do muscles help my psychic powers?

Aside: Haven't played too much DAI but isn't Iron Bull all muscle or something?

Well, keep in mind that there may be a perception issue because I'm looking at Bull through the same standards by which we judge women. He's "fat" in the same sense that people have implied the author is fat, which is to say not really. But if a woman has the same kind of bulk in a game or a movie or whatever, she's a cow (ironic, with Iron BULL as an example) or ugly, or something similar.

Though honestly, I've seen people complain about pro wrestles getting fat for showing less belly and man-boob (qunariboob?) than IB does. This also fits in with the military comparison.

You can be entirely polite when being dismissive, which is precisely what I was, and I also elaborated on my point reasonably.

I disagree. But I don't think trying to elaborate will get me anywhere, so I'll leave it at that.

You could, however, made the same point without the dismissal. I would argue the point would have been better because it didn't start off by immediately disregarding the person in question.

You kindly ignored in my post how I LITERALLY ANSWERED THAT, but ok I'll humor you again. Lets say a battle is raging in one area and you need to move there quickly, rolling around like a whale won't be your quickest method. You also COMPLETELY ignored most of my post but W/E read what you want then ask questions.

EDIT: Also there is literally no situation where being fat would make you a BETTER fighter in any fight.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

Fine.

I still find design on female characters to be rather boring. Hell, you just flat out said that all video game characters have the same design. That's boring. I want variety.

Also I looked up plus size women. They look NOTHING like that picture. In fact I looked up that woman and couldn't find her size anywhere. In fact if I google her name and plus sized, you know what comes up first? This thread.

The results I got were more like this.

http://d4bfb328369ac784c3f9-f5ae0e3e704fa6b24707960067360d1b.r35.cf1.rackcdn.com/Plus-size-red-twist-onepiece__68551_zoom.jpg

 

[maninahat]

I must be stupid or something. Whenever people read fantasy stories that have one of the questing party members be a 89 year old wizard with the physique and robustness of a porcelain walking stick, I don't find my suspension of disbelief strained in the slightest. A fat person on an adventure though? Well that's clear impossible! There is no way that could be plausible in a fictional fantasy setting!For this same reason, Archer is the worst show in the world because it depicts a fat woman being good at driving, fighting and sex. Also, I could beat Sammo Hung in a fight because he's fat, and thus clearly rubbish at everything.

Jesus christ, get a grip. I would love to see heftier people in fantasies. A range of body types for characters would be nice. I don't see the basis for people's arbitrary distinctions about what counts as an appropriate physique in a fucking fantasy story.

 

[Redryhno]

This is also the middle ages where being gay or trans were a madman's ideas in the best of circumstances...I've already been told that pretty much everyone being completely accepting of both is ok because it's a fantasy land. So I'm gonna say the same thing here.

It's a fantasy world where idealized bodies are the norm and people being fat/heavy/etc. were never considered attractive or encouraged in any way, shape, or form, and regular exercise was if you were privileged enough to, otherwise you just starved because you didn't have the money to eat, so there's your answer. You want heavier woman models, go play Fable, there's honestly plenty of them there other than Hammer.

Oh, I'm not saying that you need to have a world where the nobility is overweight and this is the ideal for beauty, I'm just saying that it's patently not unrealistic to have larger characters in your medieval world. Not to mention, the peasantry is probably the last place that would make any sense for people to be overweight.

That being said, I think you're reading too much into what was probably just a utilitarian and marketing choice. I doubt that this was supposed to be some justified, ingrained aspect of the world, it was just most likely something thrown in there to limit the types of character models they need to animate, and avoid upsetting those people who don't like worlds with fat people in them. It's like saying all the women had pretty faces because they have meticulous breeding rules for beauty to weed out the ugly genes. They have pretty women because most of their customers like looking at pretty women

And I believe you read too far into what I was saying as well. Your basic reasoning was that it was the middle ages and the bodies and beauty thingamabob needed to reflect that as well. My basic reasoning was that there needed to be something other than one asshole country that nobody likes that had problems with gay/trans. Both are explained away in-universe as it being a fantasy land that doesn't have to conform to OUR world's history, rules, or standards in any way.

And as has been said in countless other threads that has had this type of thing pop up, those limited models for space has never been a good enough answer in my experience for the people that don't want them for whatever reason. Don't much mind either way, but I'm always one for keeping costs down and making the player use more than just their eyes to see a character.

Either way, Bioware's sorta screwed as a company if this continues. They already lost most of their goodwill the last few years from the people that loved their games as games, and now they're starting to slide into the same crap the last couple seasons of Sherlock jumped in headfirst without a snorkel with. Listening that closely to fans without some kind of quality control that isn't just buddies patting each other on the back is not really ever a good thing.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Well If you want your comment thread to explode, just mention anything to do with diversity, female cosplay and/or a word that can be misinterpereted easily by people that cannot be arsed to read any more than the heading of an article for their snap-judgement and here we go!
This is going to be fun.

Actually its been pretty calm, all things considered. Mostly people just pointing out Bioware writes war stories involving soldiers and you don't find obese soldiers.
But there is the token "Yes I did!" "No you didn't!" quote wars than accompany every Escapist topic.

 

[Erttheking]

Well If you want your comment thread to explode, just mention anything to do with diversity, female cosplay and/or a word that can be misinterpereted easily by people that cannot be arsed to read any more than the heading of an article for their snap-judgement and here we go!
This is going to be fun.

Actually its been pretty calm, all things considered. Mostly people just pointing out Bioware writes war stories involving soldiers and you don't find obese soldiers.
But there is the token "Yes I did!" "No you didn't!" quote wars than accompany every Escapist topic.

You usually don't find soldiers who have soldier length hair that they let down during battle or cleavage windows either. That didn't seem to stop Bioware.

People seem to get really freaking selective when they criticize a lack of realism.

 

[Synigma]

My girlfriend has similar issues and because I introduced her to bioware games she wants to do a couples cosplay which only limits the options even more.

I think the problem comes from the puritan critics: Characters with these proportions make them cry things like 'too sexy', 'unrealistic proportions' and 'pandering to male audiences' (enough though in this case it's a woman asking for them). And because Bioware creates such a rich and diverse cast in every game if they started doubling up on the 'buxom' ladies I think those critics would flip out.
That being said I can also see why they wouldn't want to double up just for aesthetic gameplay reasons; give each character a different profile so they stand out on the battlefield at a glance.

On the title of the article, I've watched this writer tear up Anita and debate with Sargon so when I read the title I immediately thought 'well I guess even good writers have to put some click-bait in their articles'. Shame some of the posters automatically jumped to conclusions about the article instead of reading it.

And for a couple to cosplay as we were going with our favourite characters; Femshep + Garrus

 

[MatParker116]

Morrigan?

 

[Something Amyss]

You kindly ignored in my post how I LITERALLY ANSWERED THAT

You didn't answer that. You answered another question which was not mine. Please don't tell me I did things I didn't.

Or do, if you want, but I won't respond further to such claims.

 

[Thunderous Cacophony]

This could all be solved if the Warden or Inquisitor's armor was at all distinct, like Shepard's N7 armor, but it's not.

Isn't it? I know there is obviously a tonne of variation, but it seems like a lot of Inquisitor and Warden cosplayers enjoy the 'default' look. I could see the bulk of the armour being a problem, but that's not quite the same as not having a distinct look at all.
*sigh* And these comment sections used to be so peaceful, too.

Spoiler

There already is a plus-sized Female Dragon Age character:
http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Broodmother

Good to know you skipped reading the actual article where Liana talks about why the Broodmother is inappropriate to make a cheap jab.

This is """""plus-sized""""" Liana Kerzner.

Spoiler

She has the body type of every female videogame character ever made. Her personal lament is completely uncalled for. It's like having The Rock complain he can't cosplay as any Gears of War characters.

I'm not sure how to phrase this politely, but both pictures you used were taken some time ago, and Liana's structure is a little different these days. I'm not sure where to find a full body shot, but you can get a decent idea from watching the cosplay videos that she's not built like a 22-year-old anymore. Still a good looking woman, but not a Dead or Alive character.

Aside: Haven't played too much DAI but isn't Iron Bull all muscle or something?

Not really. I can't find a decent in-game screencap of his whole torso (which says something, considering he's allergic to shirts) but he's pretty chunky:

Spoiler

An image from the game:

And an idealized fanart of his actually fit:

The dude is definitely built like a defensive lineman, with a fair amount of muscle under a generous amount of natural padding. And that kind of build isn't unusual in a lot of the two-handed weapon, hard-drinking party guys that show up in these games. But most women do have a much more restricted body type; heck, for all the talk of having to beat out the breastplates it's not like Cassandra or Aveline have huge hips.

Morrigan?

Literally the 6th sentence of the article, the third of three tiny paragraphs before the header. Come on, man, read before you post, or at least skim.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

And I believe you read too far into what I was saying as well. Your basic reasoning was that it was the middle ages and the bodies and beauty thingamabob needed to reflect that as well.

That wasn't my reasoning. The person I quoted said that having overweight people in the Dragon Age world doesn't make any sense. There's nothing in the Dragon Age world that necessitates that people be uniformly skinny besides the fact that everyone's uniformly skinny. Dragon Age is strongly based around a medieval society, and the medieval society it was based around had plenty of overweight people, and they were even considered more attractive for it. As such, it's not a crazy notion to have chubbier people in a medieval based world.

Once again, I'm not saying that because medieval society was like this, they should adopt this aspect into their game. Their world is only based on medieval society, they can pick and choose what they want as long as it makes sense in world. All I'm saying is that it's not a nonsensical notion for Dragon Age to have overweight people in its world.

My basic reasoning was that there needed to be something other than one asshole country that nobody likes that had problems with gay/trans. Both are explained away in-universe as it being a fantasy land that doesn't have to conform to OUR world's history, rules, or standards in any way.

I don't disagree with this. It's a fantasy world based on our world, it'd be frankly boring if they made everything the same. However, the LGBT views in the world are something worked into the lore. The nobility's fascination with exercise and fitness isn't really.

And as has been said in countless other threads that has had this type of thing pop up, those limited models for space has never been a good enough answer in my experience for the people that don't want them for whatever reason. Don't much mind either way, but I'm always one for keeping costs down and making the player use more than just their eyes to see a character.

I'm not necessarily saying it's a good excuse, I'm just saying it was probably at least a factor in the decision. Personally I'd like more of a range, but if anything it bothers me more with male character creation than female. The male builds (if they give you the option in the first place) are almost always complete beefcakes. Often the character I want to make is smaller or more lanky. It's not the biggest issue, but it's a nagging annoyance when I can only create characters with Gears of War proportions.

Either way, Bioware's sorta screwed as a company if this continues. They already lost most of their goodwill the last few years from the people that loved their games as games, and now they're starting to slide into the same crap the last couple seasons of Sherlock jumped in headfirst without a snorkel with. Listening that closely to fans without some kind of quality control that isn't just buddies patting each other on the back is not really ever a good thing.

I'm the last person to support the fans hijacking a series, it's largely the reason why I stopped watching Supernatural. But fan demand was what made Tali a romanceable character, and what actually brought her back for the second game in the first place. I never hear people complaining about Tali being present in the game, but you can barely talk about Bioware without someone complaining about there being too many gay characters, or about those gay characters trying to flirt with them.

The biggest problems I have with Bioware have to do with their writing, not the amount of diversity they do or do not include. Their writing has been in a downward spiral for a number of years for all of their characters, not just the lgbt ones. The lgbt characters are just people's scapegoat for Bioware's decline.

 

[Qizx]

You kindly ignored in my post how I LITERALLY ANSWERED THAT

You didn't answer that. You answered another question which was not mine. Please don't tell me I did things I didn't.

Or do, if you want, but I won't respond further to such claims.

You asked how being physically fit can help you be a better fighter.

I answered it at least twice.

You ignored it, twice. So yes I think you are deliberately ignoring the point.

 

[TravelerSF]

Though I understand that the article comes from a female point of view, and I don't want to turn into "but mah meninism!" discussion, couldn't the exact same demand be made of the male characters?

I just don't thin this is an exclusively female problem, the desire to only represent the ideal bodytype has been present in games for ages.

I mean let's look at Dragon Age:

In Dragon Age: Origins you have
- Alistair
- Oghren
- Sten
- Zevran

Where Alistair and Sten have an ideal, muscular physique and Zevran has a slimmer, yet also an athletic figure. The only even remotely stockier character would be Oghren, but with him there's the height issue. Also he shares the samekind of physique with the female dwarf warden or Sigrun from Dragon Age: Awakening.

Then we have Dragon Age 2
- Anders
- Carver
- Sebastian
- Fenris
- Varric

Again, ideal physique, slim or dwarf. No plus sized men here.

And with Dragon Age: Inquisition
- Blackwall
- Cole
- Dorian
- Iron Bull
- Solas
- Varris

Once again, the same thing. Also, I strongly disagree with calling Bull "overweight". Yes, technically he probably is that, but we all know what the common use of the word refers to and Bull is built almost like a bodybuilder. Comparing his bodytype with the "big beautiful women" seems just dishonest. I mean how many gamers have a physique even close to Bulls? Is he really boosting our options that much?

I am not doing this to try to draw the attention away from the way female characters are represented. I'm just pointing out, in the interest of having a discussion, that the same could be applied to males too. I could describe myself as plus sized (though I don't, I prefer calling myself just plain fat) and that pretty much closes all of the major characters from most games out of my cosplay options. So far I've only found two interesting, well developed and well designed plus sized male characters to cosplay, and those are both outside of games.

 

[inmunitas]

I think we have enough beautiful people already.

This is """""plus-sized""""" Liana Kerzner.

She has the body type of every female videogame character ever made. Her personal lament is completely uncalled for. It's like having The Rock complain he can't cosplay as any Gears of War characters.

How can Liana Kerzner, a female gamer, have the body type of every female video game character ever made when the body type of every female video game character ever made are unrealistic and non-representative of female gamers?