BioWare Trims Mass Effect 3 Squad to Focus on Deeper Relationships

nukethetuna

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Nov 8, 2010
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What's next, Bioware?! Removing the vowels in the title so you can focus on the consonants?! I refuse to play Mss Ffct 3!

For realsies though, as others have said the crew did suffer from some bloat. Let's just hope they don't choose to eliminate a fan favorite from the crew. ;)
 

Sniper Team 4

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Apr 28, 2010
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Zhukov said:
Wait... did I see the words "Mass Effect 3"?

...

Yee gods, the flames! Take cover!

...

Actually, that sounds okay. I look forward to meeting Jack again, I liked her. I'm curious to see what happens to the rest of the crew. Here's hoping for more of Wrex and Liara.
Your hopes are answered, at least for Liara. She was in a screen shot last week where it shows her fighting alongside Shep.

As long as I get Liara and Tali back, I'm happy. Garrus will be back too, seeing as he's come too far to not see this through. Ashley/Kaiden will be back, and probably Miranda and Jacob. And whoever your love interest was in the second game. And Kelly. Everyone else I can think of reasons for them to go their own ways, but it will be interesting to see who actually stays. Honestly, I have a hard time understanding why any of them would leave, seeing as they know the truth about the Reapers. You'd think they'd want to help any way they could.
Then again, both my friend and I agreed that the squad was WAY too big in the second game. It was more of a small army. There were so many of them that I've gone through entire playthroughs without touching some of them. Too many to choose from. So, from a gameplay standpoint, this is a good idea. From a logical story standpoint, these characters had better have really good reasons for deciding that they don't want to help save the universe. Thane's "Oh, I'm dead, sorry," excuse is pretty good though.
 

The.Bard

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JeanLuc761 said:
Sounds good to me. Though I loved all my squadmates in ME2, the ship was remarkably crowded. If Bioware can focus on, say, 6-8 squadmates and give the others LOTSB-sized roles elsewhere in the game, it should be great!
Totally agree with you. It would be really cool if they even took on some other related business elsewhere in the galaxy while you're doing your missions, to really give a sense of shit hitting the fan everywhere at once. Kind of like towards the end of ME1, when Ash/Kaidan join the other squad and you just hear the radio chatter. Or maybe they can just line up and die in truly EPIC fashion!

ME2 spoilerish...

Personally, I'd love to have a scene with Thane finally dying from his disease in the infirmary, and you get to have a nice conversation with him before he goes. Sort of like the chatting scenes similar to the Liara & Dr. Chakwas scenes from ME2
 

Redd the Sock

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Hmm.. one the one hand I agree ME2's cast list was a little large, and several only got used for their loyalty mission. On the other hand, with a requiste return of characters from both games and some requistie new ones, we might all end up losing access to a favorite or two leading to fan outrage. Just ask any fighting game fancise that tried to "pare things down".
 

shintakie10

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Ya know. I actually like this idea. Truth be told I didn't outright hate or ignore any of the characters, but some were...less used than others and most of that had to do with the fact that you were able to interact with each of them for such a short amount of time (also because my team almost always filled with Tali/Garrus or Tali/Mordin...shut up, I like my techies). Mordin was great and had history with Tali/Garrus...but other than that? A big eh from me. Maybe less people and more interaction will get me interested in them.

On an unrelated note though. Its amusin to me that of the five or so characters announced, three of them are Mass Effect 1 characters that we've had two games already to get to know and watch grow. Considerin the time jump from 2 to 3 is supposed to be like...nill, I'm a bit amused that any of them can grow significantly from one game to the next.
 

Imperioratorex Caprae

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May 15, 2010
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I would like to see at least Garrus back (I ended up on my female run doing it with Garrus, though I'm still unsure how the fuck that worked) and I'd like to see that relationship continue.
And please no more dumbass marines like Kaiden or Jacob.
I'd like to see Miranda make a comeback, as well as the assassin dude (whose name I forget) along with Jack and Mordin... and Wrex, even tho I accidentally killed him off the first go round.
 

Omnific One

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I've got Liara, so I'm happy. TBH, the ME2 squad was so huge that the game felt like it was a bunch of squad missions. Most of the characters (even Tali) felt more like cardboard cutouts as opposed to ME1.
 

akibawall95

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Mar 30, 2010
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Whatever it takes BioWare, whatever it takes. Just kidding.

I think this is a good idea I did not feel that the relationships in Mass Effect 2 were as great as they could have been; now they can focus on making several characters the best they can be. There were so many characters in Mass Effect 2 that I only ended up using the same 2 every time (Garrus and Grunt).
 

Sightless Wisdom

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Jul 24, 2009
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Wrex, Legion, Thane... that's all I need. the rest would be nice but really those three have been my favourites throughout.
 

meryatathagres

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babinro said:
I actually don't like this decision as most of these characters have had an entire game to be fleshed out. I'd like to see Mass Effect 3 have a larger potential roster than any prior game...where everyone is available to join you but only will based on decisions that have been made.

I do agree with their logic though...games in general don't need a huge squad number as they need to develop characters...but in the case of ME, this point is moot simply because its the third installment.
I don't think you quite get the point. They have a certain fixed amount of resources to make content for the squad in ME3 (dialogue, missions, etc.) They don't want to spread those resources thin on huge amount of options but rather have fewer options that will have more content. The slices of pizza divided to 20 people would be rather unfilling compared to everyone getting 1/8th.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Well, I think the first responder got it right as this is exactly the kind of news that is getting Bioware flamed. The basic point seems to be that they are continueing the trend of dumbing things down, by removing even more variables from the game by letting you have less options to customize your squad through having less availible characters. Instead they are putting in more cartoons (ie cut scenes with dialogue selection options) and claiming that this makes for "deeper role-playing" when in reality this game isn't even an RPG anymore given that they have removed pretty much all the combat stats, and most of the itemization, really the only bit left that had any depth was squad selection due to their differant abillities and how having 11 to 13 choices gave you all kinds of options in terms of pairings, and now they are stripping that way too.

The guys who liked shooters with cartoons attached are of course going to find a lot to like here, for RPG fans, this is another bit of bad news, and another sign that Bioware has really ceased to be an RPG developer, and instead turned fully to making shooters with a lot of included cinematics.

We'll see what happens in the long run, but honestly I don't think this is good news in any way, shape, or form, no matter how they choose to spin it. Their biggest advantage going into this is that a lot of people are going to buy the game just to finish the story, which means that they have a solid base of guaranteed sales no matter what desician desicians they make.

Given the amount of flaming going on, and the reception they got to "Dragon Age 2" you'd think Bioware would be learning something, but instead they seem intent on living in their own little world and denying reality. Sort of like the whole situation with Hawke, where they asked the fans if they thought limiting character creation would be okay, to have a "fully voiced hero" they got an overwhelmingly negative reaction, but because how there were some people who supported it or merely gave a lukewarm "trust Bioware" response, they decided to try and say they received a positive response and just go ahead with what the decided they wanted to do anyway.

The way it looks to me is that Bioware is getting heavily into cutting corners to be honest. Producing cut scenes probably takes a lot more work that developing AI routines and combat abillities for usable companion characters, since the characters also have to be tested throughout all the maps and enviroments in the game. Throwing together some more video (since the additional companions would require it anyway for their RP moments) in comparison is easier for them to produce, especially seeing as less companions also generally means having to hire less voice actors. Getting the guys they have to read a few extra lines for the new video is probably a heck of a lot cheaper and easier than finding and hiring more talent to play the additional roles. Not to mention having to get all that cross-dialogue generated between actors.

I'm not quite to the point of talking about them selling their souls to the EA Devil, however this is a bad thing.

As a somewhat "positive" point for Bioware at least, I will say that I think part of the problem is them simply being so heavily involved in "Old Republic" which is where the big money their investors are putting in is. I have noticed a general trend that Bioware strips things away and tries to present it as an "enhancement" (similar to how companies "enhance" your benefits when they cut your medical as part of a propaganda process) when the timer for "Old Republic" goes up. Right now we're looking at a situation where insted of getting a release date announced in April (last month), EA's stock has taken a slight dive due to more delays, and the chatter that the game is being pushed up until next year AGAIN because it's not in a shape to release. Any way it goes, the lack of a release date of course means that the game is still in development to the point where they don't want to committ to anything, which means Bioware has more work on their table, and of course it also means that given the stock drops and pressure EA is facing their other projects are going to have to take cuts in order to focus on the important one....

To put things into perspective, a game is a game, a set of cut scenes and associated voice acting is much the same from one project to another. I wouldn't be surprised to learn at this point that the reason why Bioware is cutting down on the "Mass Effect" squad is to work on putting that work into more NPCs for "Old Republic Online" assuming it takes a similar amount of work (or more) it makes sense that if say they want 4 more characters for "Old Republic" due to the need for content to sustain it, that they might pull a similar number from "Mass Effect" and send the voice teams and cinematic directors/artists over to "Old Republic" to do the same basic job there.

This is a bit differant than the "soul selling" thing because despite the doublespeak being used, it's more a matter of them dealing with the realities of the main project they are working on, and committed to a long time ago, rather than any genuine change in attitude on their part.

Only time will tell what happens, however I don't think "Mass Effect" exists in a vaccuum, and while there is no way to view this as a good thing in any way shape or form (less characters and less content is by it's nature never going to be a good thing no matter what they say), I also don't think you can view this in isolation. Bioware is not the same company it was when it could focus on one project like a laser, it's working on multiple projects, and we've known for a long time now that "Old Republic" was their major focus, and where all the money was being invested, their other franchises that would have been their focus are now little more than "also ran" side projects, and we're seeing that reflected in the quality of games like "Dragon Age 2" which re-use enviroments, and how much "Mass Effect" gradually gets chopped down compared to what they had established in the first game. I don't think the shooter combat was entirely a matter of them selling out to the brain dead demographic (though that was probably a factor) but also because you can build shooters right out of a toolbox and that's easier than working with your own stat based engine. The reason why so many games are so similar to things like "Halo" or "Gears Of War" is because they are all developed using the same toolbox, with most of the work being tweaking, and adding sound and graphics as opposed to actually building an engine from the ground up.
 

Irony's Acolyte

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Mar 9, 2010
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As much as I loved having a large selection of squadmates to choose from in ME2 I can see why that might be a bit much. Most of them didn't really get much time fighting alongside me anyway. So I guess having a smaller number will be good for deeper interactions. What I am hoping for is that they switch some characters out. Perhaps in a certain set of missions you can choose Wrex to fight alongside of, while other missions you can instead choose Grunt. This makes it so that you don't have too big of a selection to pick from at any one time, but you still, over the course of the game, get to play with a wider selection of teammates. I'd be quite happy with the middle ground.
 

A Raging Emo

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As long as...

Tali, Garrus, Thane and Kasumi are back as combat roles, I'm happy.

I never used any others anyway.
 

NinjaDeathSlap

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Feb 20, 2011
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Josh12345 said:
NinjaDeathSlap said:
So long as my squad contains...

Calibrations
Wrex. Shphard
Oh My GOD
flaying people alive. With her MIND
Kermit the frog mixed with Solid Snake
Shepard Commander
A beautiful bucket

I really don't mind who else stays, although I hope they'll still produce some new characters.
fix'd for ya
LOL, that's my meme team.

Oh, I also want Mordin as well, what does he get turned into? In fact, seem as Mordin makes 8, and there's a pretty good balance of Biotic/Tech/Combat skills there (even if you substitute Kaidan for Ashley). This should be the line up for Mass Effect 3, with 1-2 new characters, (perhaps the potential for more new characters but only if any of the ones on the list died in ME2)
 

Ben Legend

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Apr 16, 2009
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Well theoretically they could cut anyone from the party. for example

Wrex will be with the Krogan.
Tali readying the migrant fleet
Kaidan/Ashley may be preparing the alliance. (Although the alliance being decimated on earth may be a likely cover story to why he is with Sheppard)
Liara busy in the Shadow Brokers Base
Legion may be with the Geth
Miranda & Jacob reading any Cerberus troops who are not loyal to the Illusive Man

Few other ideas below:

Katsumi and Zaeed will be left out of the main party. (too many variables, main one being, did the player download/encounter them.)

Garrus have never been shown to have an influence/contact with any military force in the games. So I imagine they will stay with you.
 

dancinginfernal

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We get to meet Jack again? Awesome. I'm curious how her relationship with Paragon shep will have changed her personality.
 

Optimystic

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Sep 24, 2008
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Please let Garrus, Legion, Grunt and Thane be playable.

But DITCH Samara, my god what a concentrated pile of boring. As her ED article so succinctly put it, she has to walk around with her cleavage out to the galaxy just to get any attention.
 

Savber

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Therumancer said:
So why does cutting down the squad to the original ME size for better interaction and having your choices in stats to have more meaning in gameplay mean that Bioware is selling out to the shooter crowd...?

They have stated that they're working to add depth to the shallow ME2's RPG elements and yet we continue to ***** as they work on making the stats meaningful for combat etc.


But face this one fact. Bioware has changed. Bioware is not forever entitled to a single genre. Bioware works to combine genres like FPS with the RPG. Bioware had planned this even before EA came around. You can hate or love it but Bioware is clear that they're no longer servicing just the hardcore and I'm fine with that. Get use to it and quit railing that Bioware is some dumb crap for appealing to greater audience. Nothing wrong with that even if it doesn't appeal specifically to you.