BioWare Unoriginal?

[Madshaw]

In KOTOR they stole the combat mechanics from wizards of the coast....

Bioware's licencing agreement with WotC for the Star Wars d20 game tabletop RPG mechanics counts as 'stole' now? When did that happen?

thats not my point. I meant to say that bioware have a history of borrowing game mechanics and therefore allowing themselves to concentrate on other aspects of their games

 

[CJ1145]

Is it just me, or has Bioware became completely unoriginal?

Is being original a requirement? I just thought their games had to be good.

As an example: DA2 seems to "borrow" quite a few parts of it's gameplay and storytelling from Alpha Protocol. One or two of these wouldn't be a massive thing, but when you start doing the entire thing and putting it together you have to scratch your head.

This should be good.

Examples: The conversation system is taken pretty much directly from AP. The three conversation choices instead of two aligned and one neutral was a major factor of AP's design, where it's the "suave, aggressive and professional" choices determining what kind of spy you are.

You've pretty much just tried to give Alpha Protocol credit for inventing personalities. I want that to sink here. It's a pretty obvious system, so of course other people are going to use it. And more importantly, wasn't DA II in production almost immediately after Origins, which would make it predate Alpha Protocol's release?

The framing device of a person being interrogated on past events is taken pretty much directly from AP (although it's done far better, in my opinion, in Alpha Protocol). This alone set me off on hunting for more similarities.

Listen buddy, I'm about to do you a big favor. Go down to the local video store, and get a movie called "The Princess Bride". Watch, and come back with a newly blown mind to share your updated thoughts.

Rivalry bonuses are taken, once again, directly from AP. If the handler you were using hated you, you got a completely different bonus than if they liked you. In fact, it was often beneficial to make a handler hate you if their bonuses weren't of much use to you since the opposite bonuses could be far more useful.

Once again, predates AP's release, and once again a very good and not that secretive and original of an idea. Since there was no benefit to making somebody hate you in Origins, and it was almost unavoidable sometimes, BioWare would seek an alternative. Therefore, hatred bonuses.

Comments?

I'm pretty much done here.

 

[TheBelgianGuy]

I'm sorry, is the entirety of the fantasy genre not one big clichéd unoriginal copy?

Good guy is happy - evil comes and makes good guy unhappy - good guy kills evil - good guy happy again.
Hell, IT'S NOT EVEN JUST FANTASY. EVERY GAME OUT THERE IS ABOUT THE GOOD GUY TO STOP THE EVILZ! (Except of course simulators and the like, but you get my point.)

Just because the Fantasy genre and videogames as a medium a bereft of creativuity doesn't excuse Bioware from being unoriginal.

Since you obviously are a much better writer than anybody Bioware could ever hope to hire, please give me a story I could make a game with, that involves killing people but has nothing to do with good vs. evil AND will sell.

Why does it have to involve killing people? But even then, stories that aren't a simplisitc Good guys vs Evil guys are fucking everywhere. The majority of novels, films and plays manage to create plots that aren't like that, hell even fucking comics can get beyond that. Why do you think games can't?

It doesn't HAVE to involve killing, but that seems to be what everybody wants nowadays.

I remember an RPG about the Greek legend about Jason and the Argonauts, called "Rise of the Argonauts". It was a good game I thought, but rated poorly by critics (6/10 on gamespot), because there was too much walking around and talking, and not enough fighting. That was exactly why I liked it - I wouldn't even mind if they'd take 90% of the combat away from Dragon Age, I'm really just playing to experience the story. But apparently, I am one of the few, and they're not going to make a good game that only a few people will like, right?

 

[SageRuffin]

While it's true that BioWare games often fit a certain mold, if you will, to call them unoriginal is a bit of a stretch. Sure, most of the stuff they come up with may be little more than creative re-imaginings (hell, look at the first Dragon Age), but at the same time that's what makes it charming, to me at least.

Besides, is inspiration from other sources ever a bad thing? Sometimes a great thing can come from changing a few seemingly minute details here and there.

I remember an RPG about the Greek legend about Jason and the Argonauts, called "Rise of the Argonauts". It was a good game I thought, but rated poorly by critics (6/10 on gamespot), because there was too much walking around and talking, and not enough fighting. That was exactly why I liked it - I wouldn't even mind if they'd take 90% of the combat away from Dragon Age, I'm really just playing to experience the story. But apparently, I am one of the few, and they're not going to make a good game that only a few people will like, right?

You know, this just reminded me of the Normandy Crash side-quest in ME2, and how a lot of people didn't like it because "there wasn't any action". As a member of the US Armed Services, I found that highly insulting.

Those of you unfamiliar with the mission (especially since it was DLC), you're tasked with going to the Normandy SR1's crash site and recovering the dog tags of some of the various crew members that unfortunately didn't survive the Collector assault. The only running and gunning involved was that there were a few containers that needed to cracked open in order to get some of the tags. No fighting whatsoever - just you, some frozen wreckage, and whole lot of painful memories. Probably one of the more emotional parts of the game (especially for military folk such as myself), the only thing I didn't like was that Shepard didn't salute the fallen when all was said and done.

The key point here is that like the above person said, since there was no fighting involved, nobody liked that side-mission, and thought it was a giant waste of time. Never mind the fact that I'm sure more thought went into that than into Jack's character, there were no chances to turn someone's skull into a cloud of red mist so everyone thought it was crap.

 

[ZephrC]

Bioware has always been a company that takes things other companies are trying out and then does them better than the original company could have ever hoped to. They may not be the driving force of originality in gaming, but they make the best games, and they often manage to put pre-existing pieces together in ways no one else ever would have thought to. That's plenty good enough for me.

Plus they actually have good writing. Even if the overall story is cliche, the quality with which those cliches are pulled off makes the stories in Bioware games far better than pretty much every other game ever. In my opinion of course, since some people can't figure that out if it isn't stated plainly.

 

[Freechoice]

Reminds me of this:

Spoiler: Chart of Bioware Clichés

I mean, people have been making fun of Bioware for their lack of imagination in plot/story for years. The only thing they're really good at in terms of writing is world-building.

You're in a universe where a great threat menaces the existence of the world/galaxy, they were powerful enough to defeat a great race infinitely better than your own (bonus points for your culture trying to uncover them), you're a lowly soldier/peasant with some kind of great nobility or power that you find out about later on and then you go on to defeat the evil.

That's true for a lot of games.

Do I still agree that Bioware doesn't mix things up that well? Yuppers.

 

[ThatDaveDude1]

Give a few examples of games that are 100% original

Pong?

 

[ImprovizoR]

You take that back right now, sir!

Bioware is awesome in every way. And yes, I'm a Bioware fanboy. Just in case you feel the need to pint that out. I just spared you that effort.

 

[James Joseph Emerald]

You're in a universe where a great threat menaces the existence of the world/galaxy, they were powerful enough to defeat a great race infinitely better than your own (bonus points for your culture trying to uncover them), you're a lowly soldier/peasant with some kind of great nobility or power that you find out about later on and then you go on to defeat the evil.

That's true for a lot of games.

That's what makes it such an annoying cliché.

I really wish the industry would stop dicking around and put a proper amount of resources into writing/directing. It's literally the only mainstream artistic medium where style over substance in terms of storytelling is encouraged. I'm not saying all games should become 'interactive movies' (i.e. with minimal attention to gameplay), but goddamn, it wouldn't even take much more time or money to hire good writers rather than crappy ones. All a company like Bioware would need is a few experienced editors to pick out the best scripts.

Because, let's face it, even though Bioware is one of the best game developers out there when it comes to writing, the standard of their writing isn't above that of the mediocre CSI/slasher/supernatural romance novels that are churned out nowadays.

 

[Freechoice]

You're in a universe where a great threat menaces the existence of the world/galaxy, they were powerful enough to defeat a great race infinitely better than your own (bonus points for your culture trying to uncover them), you're a lowly soldier/peasant with some kind of great nobility or power that you find out about later on and then you go on to defeat the evil.

That's true for a lot of games.

That's what makes it such an annoying cliché.

I really wish the industry would stop dicking around and put a proper amount of resources into writing/directing. It's literally the only mainstream artistic medium where style over substance in terms of storytelling is encouraged. I'm not saying all games should become 'interactive movies' (i.e. with minimal attention to gameplay), but goddamn, it wouldn't even take much more time or money to hire good writers rather than crappy ones. All a company like Bioware would need is a few experienced editors to pick out the best scripts.

Because, let's face it, even though Bioware is one of the best game developers out there when it comes to writing, the standard of their writing isn't above that of the mediocre CSI/slasher/supernatural romance novels that are churned out nowadays.

And personally, they don't seem to have the G in RPG down pat. Mass Effect 2 is a clunky bastard. Somehow it managed to get rave reviews in spite of that. Any other developer would have gotten shit for having something so unpolished.

 

[HerbertTheHamster]

http://gza.gameriot.com/content/images/orig_320200_1_1257581825.png

This image is way too true. Bioware has been "writing" the same story for 10 years