BioWare's Lead Writer Resigns

[Animyr]

I thought this guy had already resigned. As in, several months ago.

Also, yeah, Karpyshyn's prose is not exactly the greatest thing around. He should stick to games if you ask me.

 

[Imbechile]

So, I take it you've played only one Bioware game then?

If by only one Bioware game you mean "every bioware game is the same due to the things I listed" then yeah. I've played only one Bioware game.

Not Dragon Age or Mass Effect 2?

Dragon age 2 could have been a step in the right direction story-wise, but it was rushed, so the story is disjointed.

Or haven't just read any epic fantasy in the first place.

I think we can agreen that if a lot of people do the same thing, that thing doesn't become good all of the suddenly. It might be influental, but it still remains shit.

 

[TheCruxis]

Awww.I rather liked his work.


He wasn't Tolkein or Asimov or anything like that, but he did write entertaining novels and scripts. And damnit if Mass Effect isn't my favorite sci-fi universe, so kudos to you, Drew.

I concur. I rather like his novels, I finished reading "Revan" recently and at least for those who played and loved Kotor & Kotor 2 it's a great story (also I can not for my life understand why they didn't let him write "ME Deception", now they will have to remake the book cause it had so many flaws).

You should note however that mr. Karpshyn said he may "focus more on his novels in the future" so I think we will get more books from him yet. Allthough since the doesn't work for Bioware anymore he probably won't write any novels taking place in their gameworlds, which is sad.

Bioware's future is mostly dependent on EA so loosing one writer, even the lead writer, probably won't make much difference. If EA keeps on with their retarded DRM systems, rushing games out on the market half made, releasing the other half of it in DLC packs togheter with another dozen minior DLC:s...well if they keep this up Bioware is going to loose many fans.



PS. Please tell me this is a fucking april fools joke or something; http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/01/23/mass-effect-figures-include-mass-effect-3-dlc.aspx

 

[MetalMagpie]

Not that I care because I'm not playing any more of their games after ME3.

Can I ask why? They might release something really good in the future!

For example...

Perhaps it would be a good time for Bioware to hire Neil Gaiman. The next ME game will be called Mass Effect: Galactic Gods. Shepard is hired by someone named Mr. Friday who turns out to be a Turian god.

That I might actually buy!

A thought: If you disagree with Bioware/EA's business practices strongly enough to declare that you will never consider a game by them again, then don't support those business practices by buying ME3.

 

[Imbechile]

Because as others have also pointed out, the whole "they're all the same!" argument doesn't hold water unless you're willing (which it seems you are) to grasp at straws and bend the truth quite liberally to bring forth the outcome that suits your express purposes.

Care to clarify who these "other people" are? So far I've only saw you and another poster try to prove me wrong. The_root_of_all_evil presented a not very good diagram and people have pointed it out, but only two people tried to prove me wrong(someone who written his thoughts, not copied someone a diagram from someone).
Funny enough, I've also encountered a lot of people on this site who agree with me.

 

[PiercedMonk]

So, I take it you've played only one Bioware game then?

If by only one Bioware game you mean "every bioware game is the same due to the things I listed" then yeah. I've played only one Bioware game.

So, that's a no then? Because as others have also pointed out, the whole "they're all the same!" argument doesn't hold water unless you're willing (which it seems you are) to grasp at straws and bend the truth quite liberally to bring forth the outcome that suits your express purposes.

I'll agree that the claim that all BioWare games are exactly the same is a bit of a stretch, though I do think it's worth acknowledging that they do have a formula. A forumula that works well, mind you, but it's not exactly innovative.

However! 'KotOR' and 'Mass Effect', Karpyshyn's two big successes, are fundementally the same story. A lot of the flavour is changed, but almost beat for beat, it's the same tale.

An Unexpected Battle:
- The Endar Spire gets ambushed in orbit around Taris in KotOR.
- Shepard and Company find themselves in the middle of the assault on Eden Prime in 'Mass Effect'.

An Ally Dies to Demonstrate the Stakes:
- Trask Ulgo is killed by Darth Bandon, after having taught Revan how to wear pants.
- Nihlus is murdered by Saren. No pants were involved.

A Mild Coma:
- Revan is knocked out and Carth drags him into the escape pod. While unconcious he experiances ominous visions.
- Shepard is knocked out after being caught in the energy of the prothean beacon, and is dragged back to the Normandy by Kaiden and Ashley. While unconcious, he experiances ominous visions.

Investigating and Gathering Allies:
- Revan runs around Taris assmebling a posse while trying to find Bastilla.
- Shepard runs around the Citadel assembling a posse while digging up dirt on Saren.

Status Bump:
- Revan is inducted into the Jedi order, despite some misgivings by the three members of the Jedi Council.
- Shepard becomes a Spectre, despite some misgivings by the three members of the Citadel Council.

Secrets from the Past:
- Reavan and crew cowboy around the galaxy, chasing Malak and looking for Star Maps, ancient technology left by a mysterious species long since dissappeared from the galaxy which give Revan visions. They help people along the way.
- Shepard and crew cowboy around the galaxy, chasing Saren and looking for ways to help Shepard interpret the vision he recieved from the prothean beacon, ancient technology left by a mysterious species long since dissappeared from the galaxy. They help people along the way.

Shocking Revelation:
- "You cannot hide from what you once were, Revan! Recognize that you were once the Dark Lord - and know that I have taken your place!"
- ?Reaper? A label created by the Protheans to give voice to their destruction. In the end, what they choose to call us is irrelevant. We simply... are.?

An Ally Lost:
- Saren's machinations result in the death of either Kaidan or Ashley.
- Malak's machinations result in the Bastilla falling to the Dark Side.

A World Forgotten:
- Through his visions, the Star Maps, and his connection to Bastilla, Revan is eventually able to locate Lehon, the ancient homeworld the the rakata.
- Through his visions imparted by the prothean beacon, and his connection to Liara, Shepard is eventually able to locate Virmire, the final resting place of the protheans.

Unlocking the Puzzle:
- On Lehon, Revan is able to gain access to ancient rakatan technology that will allow him access to the Star Forge.
- On Virmire, Shepard is able to gain access to ancient prothean technology that allows him to access the Conduit.

The Final Battle:
- Revan vs. Malak. Malak is powered by the energies of captured Jedi.
- Shepard vs. Saran. Saran is powered by the energies of Soverign.

Triumph:
- Triumph!
- Triumph!

That's more than just formulaic; Karpyshyn and BioWare managed to get paid twice for the same story.

 

[Susurrus]

SNIP

Mostly, my point was that whoever writes rogues for bioware has a thing for redheads.

Also, I haven't played DA2 so I cant really comment, rather than its not relevant.

 

[Thoric485]

Aww man. Hoped it was gonna be Gaider.

 

[Worr Monger]

thats fine but how can you ignore all the sign that ME3 is just going to be an over hyped cash grab?

Who said I was ignoring anything? Mass Effect obviously has a large fanbase, and many of people are looking forward to getting their hands on it... that's why you hear about it a lot. Of course EA is going to market-the-fuck out of something is a guaranteed hit. I'm not gonna troll forums saying "Don't buy it! They just want your money!"... I'm quite certain EA just wants my money... but it's what I get for my money that matters.

Just because I don't play along with everyone who is hell-bent on condemning Bioware or EA for their recent games doesn't make me some sheep that is only taken in by marketing schemes. I'm not buying ME3 because EA/Bioware, or any fans telling me how awesome it is. I'm getting it because I love the series, and largely enjoy Bioware's games in general.

Here are just some of the plethora of reasons Im skipping the "conclusion" if you want to call it that.

1) DLC. Now Im fine with good, well though out DLC like the way Rockstar does DLC. I however despise the way EA has gone about it, Day one DLC, DLC already on the disc you need to "unlock", and just take a look at this; http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/01/23/mass-effect-figures-include-mass-effect-3-dlc.aspx

That is MF action figure DLC. And the DLC rewards are randomized at that . . . so real collection obsessed fans can buy multiple sets of the same action figure, or so Ive heard.

While I agree.. I am no fan of Day 1 DLC... from a business standpoint, I can't fault EA for using something that has worked in bringing them extra dollars. I've only purchased the Collector's Edition.. I don't care about all that other DLC that is store-based or Action Figure-Based. It's usually just something like an extra skin or weapon that isn't needed to complete the game. After I get the game, I'll judge available DLC individually and figure out what I think is worth the money.. as with any game... it's quite simple.

2)The auxiliary characters are pathetically badly designed. Chobot? Freddie prinze? The fuck outta here. Rasta Prothean? Theyre 0 for 3 right out of the gate, and I have no faith in EA (yes it is EA wearing Bioware's skin) to make the others any better. This would be great if I wanted to play Mass Effect the comedy special, but to me that not the appeal. Fuck freddie prinze jr. poser *****.

I keep hearing this "It's not Bioware anymore, it's EA" crap everywhere. So what? What does that really mean? Yes, "Bioware's" games haven't changed much since KOTOR... and yet "Bioware" is still a name that sells games (and yes, I know EA uses that to their advantage).. what matters is that there are a group of people (Call them EA, or call them Bioware) that is making games like Mass Effect or Dragon Age, or TOR... if you still enjoy those games (you don't, I'm guessing)... then who "really" makes them doesn't matter.

It's sad that gaming discussions have devolved into something like discussing politics... as if EA is Big Brother or something. I've resented EA since Westwood Studios went down the tank.. but I'll be damned if I'm going to avoid the Mass Effect series because "Big Brother" might be behind it. Gaming is for fun... EA isn't going to draft me into Iraq.

Oops.. OT: Yeah, Chobot is hideous, I don't care about Freddie Prinze either... I'll be too busy taking my preferred characters (Garrus, Tali, Liara, etc) with me to care. They're just another Kaiden or Jacob. I'll get over it.

3)forced emotional manipulation. The human kid getting blown up in the demo? what the hell was the point of that? Are we supposed to feel bad about some dumbass kid we see for 5 seconds, that runs away from us like a retard? Just ham fisted drama, and I dont see it getting less hamfisted

I haven't played the demo, so I can't judge yet. But I like how you refer to it as "forced emotional manipulation" (Big Brother EA at it again). As if they're trying to control your emotions. How about... they're presenting you with a situation.. and maybe it will get a reaction from you? It didn't work for you obviously... but that's ok, not everyone is affected by stimuli the same way. Some people are moved by images or events on films/games/books/etc... and some aren't. I might also feel the moment falls flat, just like you.. it happens.. guess we'll see.

I could literally go on and on about every single thing that sets off alarm bells . . . Horde mode, create your own single player mode, the obvious laziness from what ive seen in the demo (shit textures for one, and the uncanny valley problems), male shephard running like he has a perpetually dirty ass, the lead writer leaving the company for MAC FUCKING WALTERS to take over is enough evidence alone to make me avoid this game.

As opposed to figuratively?.... OT: I donno, maybe I just don't knit pick as much. None of the textures that I've seen so far have bothered me... but I'm not much of a graphics-nazi. I'm not getting it for the multiplayer. I'll admit, the changing of writers does have me worried... as it's never a good sign to change writers in the middle of anything. But demos usually aren't the best way to judge a final product. So I'll wait and see it for myself when it's out. All I know is... I don't hate what I've seen, and I love ME1 & ME2 so... that's why ME3 is a sure buy.

I think when fans play this game, well, im hoping they look back at ME2 and realize that that game isnt all that.

OH you're one of those.... ok well I guess I just wasted all my time here. I think ME2 was fantastic...

tl;dr - What bothers you, doesn't bother me. This is gaming, not politics... the world won't end if you purchase ME3 or choose not to....EA will still make bank on this... and I'm hoping they earned it.

 

[Warachia]

The characters have more depth to them than just 5-6 personalities.

What depth? You mean Emo-boys Carth Onasi and Kaidan Alenko. Alistairs and Morringans "were fighting and arguing over stupid things like we're children" personality. To avoid confusion: There are some nicely written characters, but they still feel too similar to companions in other games. Also, the cringe inducing romance don't help. I will give you the characters, but what about the same old "The chosen one saves the world from the big evil" bullshit that they always write in desperate attempt to make the game epic.

When I say depth I mean that you can get to know the characters, their backstories, and even if their personalities seem similar (a point I'll give you) the characters themselves have different reasons for those personalities. To me, being similar is X caused Y, which the characters themselves don't have. I'll also give you that bit about saving the world, it is pretty annoying, which is one of the reasons I like DA2 (despite its problems) and ME2.

and that last point has you doing COMPLETELY SEPERATE THINGS, even generalizing it becomes stupid and you see how it all comes apart. How is looking for a map the same thing as stopping a villain?

The still go to four or five hubs(there's nothing wrong with that type of design, but when you constantly do it then it becomes repetitive).

I agree there, but a better argument to make in the beginning would be that no matter the objective, you accomplish it the same way. I guess this is where I like Bioware games best, with the sidequests to fully flesh out the places you visit, as I feel they add a lot to the game and help the areas. Can't argue if that's not your thing though.

Incidentally, they made other games like Baldurs Gate 1+2 (and that sonic game that nobody remembers) that don't fit what you're trying to point out.

And those games are good(A bit overrated, but still good).I don't know about sonic though.

I won't debate about the games being overrated (your opinion) but the sonic one is pretty good, I''d highly recommend it if your looking for a good turn based RPG on the DS. The weird thing about it is how much work that went into the characters and dialogue, it's like hiring an oscar winner to do a childrens film.

By your logic every single final fantasy game is the same because the have the same classes, a villain, and you explore an overworld.

I think you can easilly see that games whose story is "The chosen one saves the world from the big evil" are more similar to each other, than games where you have a villain and you explore a world. For instance: Jon Irenicus is a diffrent villain than, say Malak or the Reapers.

Yes, I see how those are similar, but the locations and methods as well as environments and characters that help you are also different, and it seems wrong to throw those out for the sake of generalizing.

Why not compare Monkey Island and kings quest

I haven't played king's quest.

Decent games if you don't mind incredibly unforgiving puzzles and controls.

every FPS is a ripoff of DOOM.

But... ,but Doom is a ripoff of Wolfenstein. /sarcasm

Yes Wolfenstein came first, but everyone says Doom ripoff, so I went with it anyway. Besides, Wolfenstein is a ripoff of Maze War.

 

[Calatar]

There are tropes and themes common to several Bioware games.
Apparently that means that the stories/games are the same.
Or that writers were lazy/inept/bad.

Allow me to sum up Bioware games:
1: You make a character
2: You go through a tutorial period involving some kind of battle
3: You gather your party before venturing forth
4: You venture forth
5: You gather your party whilst venturing forth
6: Some characters fill thematically similar roles
7: There is an adventure with high stakes
8: There is an antagonist character
9: There is a plot twist
10: The game ends with some sort of victory

Now add "OMG BALDUR'S GATE AND MASS EFFECT ARE THE SAME GAME" to the end of each of those points.

Ponder whether pointing out vague similarities between games indicates the quality of writing.

a> IT TOTALLY DOES - You're qualified to post hate topics on internet forums. Congratulations.
b> NO NOT REALLY - Maybe you are a person who can read TVTropes without complaining about how everything just copied everything else.

 

[4173]

I quite enjoy his Darth Bane books, not thrilled with Revan. He's done good work with Bioware, but I'm ready for a new direction.

 

[Starke]

I quite enjoy his Darth Bane books, not thrilled with Revan. He's done good work with Bioware, but I'm ready for a new direction.

With Revan it's not the full story (you'd have to play TOR to get that) and I don't just mean the 4 flashpoints he's involved in (2 for each faction). Drew wrote the Jedi Knight story so it has direct ties to both KOTOR and Revan. The Jedi Knight story is pretty much KOTOR 3.

My impression was that the Jedi Knight story was pretty much incurably stupid. If that was in fact his work, it makes me suspect that all the incoherence of ME2 belongs solidly at his feet.

 

[Starke]

My impression was that the Jedi Knight story was pretty much incurably stupid. If that was in fact his work, it makes me suspect that all the incoherence of ME2 belongs solidly at his feet.

It's often quoted as one of the best ones in the entire game, right up next to Imperial Agent.

Which goes to show how bad the writing in that game really is.

 

[Starke]

I didn't think so, I just completed it the other day. Got anything else to say other than Bad writing? I just feel that that's a lazy excuse for people who don't really have any ground to stand on in a discussion.

No, that's a fact, not an "excuse". The Jedi Knight story is about as coherent and well thought out as a drunken frat boy making a pass at you. Come to think of it, about as original and respectful of source material as well. If you call that good writing, you really need to stop playing games and learn to read something that was written by a competent writer.

 

[Ariannus]

I'm just hoping that this isn't the first step in Bioware following the path Origin Systems took and becoming nothing but tech support for their MMO.