Black Batman

[Daniel Laeben-Rosen]

This thread needs more Batwing.

Spoiler: Hooray Batwing!

I like Batwing. Or, I like the concept of Batwing, but I don't think the writing's particularly strong. Do love the artwork though, to where the sometimes-iffy writing doesn't really matter to me.

Just wanted that said because, more people should give that comic a try.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

"Black batman" is stupid. There is however nothing wrong with batman being black. Nothing in any of the story lines or any of the various versions of his often recreated backstory require a particular ethnicity.

Of my two favorite Catwomen (that looks odd...Catwomans?) one happens to be white, one black. Ethnicity doesn't matter to the character at all.

It would only matter if something about the character is inherently race based. I can't think of one at the moment, but to give a silly example, if a Nazi superhero was turned from White Christian to Black Gay Jew in a retcon.

Ethnicity is not the same as race. Black is not a race. And a black gay Jewish Nazi would be hilarious. Every Nazi ever should be retconned as black, gay, and Jewish.

Well race isn't a word with a university definition, but in general terms, yes, black probably does meet the definition of race, in fact skin colour was one of the primary determining factors in that non scientific word's early use. You know, that's why people say its "racist" when you are anti-black. But you keep feeling smug if it makes you feel better. (Especially when your corrections are wrong lol)

Read my other post and recent edit. It was a typo. And there are plenty of university definitions for race, just ask a professor and there you go. I can insult you for making typos as well, but I am pretty certain your original misunderstanding of the differences between race and ethnicity were not typos.

You claim now it was a typo...

And read my comment on your correction.

Also you might mean, University where I work, not where I go.

Let me help you out there, the term "race" is inherently "racist". There is no valid scientific use of the word, and no self respecting academic would suggest there was. Feel free to point me at that very clear universally accepted definition though.

A typo is a type of mistake.

Race is as real as we make it. You can't ignore the obvious social importance of the concept of race, even though it biologically doesn't exist. And yes there is no universally accepted definition. However, there is one for ethnicity, and it is not the same as race. Black is not an ethnicity, it is a race.

How can you positively identify it as a race, when you agree race isn't defined?

In any event, your definition is STILL wrong for ethnicity. Ethnicity CAN include racial traits. A couple segments of the Merriam-Webster definition for your attention:

a: of or relating to large groups of people classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic, or cultural origin or background
Synonyms: racial, ethnical, tribal

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ethnic

Ethnicity is just a way of grouping people into groups that make some sense and have some commonality.

Your race is a socially constructed status that is ascribed to you in accordance with certain physical traits. Your ethnicity is the social group or category you generally fit within. Black is not a valid ethnicity as it tells me nothing about what social category that individual fits within. A black Swede differs from a black African which differs from a black American. And Webster loses credibility with me for having an incorrect definition of gender.

 

[Lord Beautiful]

Black Batman.

The only difference I can see that making is that he may be harder to see at night.

I had no idea we were still telling 1950s jokes.

Hey let me tell you the one about the kyke and the irishman...

Yes, because acknowledging that black people have darker skin than white people is incredibly insensitive and most assuredly thoughtcrime.

 

[Fishyash]

To be honest, there was backlash when Sonic changed his eye colour.

I don't think they should do it to be honest. It seems like a sily retcon to change a natural feature of a superhero. I don't think I would mind personally, but I don't have much personal investment in batman.

 

[The_Critic]

I would have absolutely no problem with it. The problem is this, why would they be changing his skin color, to appease a certain demographic? To make a statement hey we love them black folk? Or just cause hey we haven't reinvented this character in forever wouldn't it be cool if we did, maybe get people back into comic book reading, or create a new generation of fans with a new character or reinvented one.

Batman is Batman, doesn't matter if he is Latino, Black, White, Asian, or middle eastern. He fight for justice, not affirmative action, so who gives a fuck about his skin tone.

When they did make Spidey black/Hispanic and Bi, it was completely obvious what there underlying reason was. A big stamp of approval from the ACLU and LBGT community. It wasn't a natural progression, it wasn't a reinvention, it was a statement yelling at the top of their lungs, hey look at us we are tolerant. That shit pisses me off, and is completely retarded in my opinion.

As far as batman being black, sure do it, I'd like it if they rebooted the whole series, would give me a reason to start collecting the comics.

 

[Gennadios]

The Klan is a joke, they didn't hold any real power since the 50's and any time members actually do commit a violent crime it's just blamed on the individuals and they get disowned.

If such a comic reboot actually were to happen, I'd just write the whole fucking franchise off as some ABM revenge fantasy and move on with my life.

 

[aba1]

It would bother me mostly because of how unnecessary and stupid the idea is and how convoluted the time line already is. If they started him black it really would not have bothered me in the same way that the new spiderman does not bother me at all.

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

Why is it always black? There are fucking loads of other ethnicities but everybody goes for black. What's up with you America, have you still not gotten over racial diversity yet?

OT: I'd be more pissed off that they'd changed the name to Black Batman than Batman was black. Seriously, if you're changing him just keep the name.

 

[teebeeohh]

calling it black batman is retarded, other than that i don't really care.
it would however be a little odd to make any industrial-billionaire kinda hero black, at last if they didn't earn the money themselves but inherited it from their parents who presumably would also be black and can anyone imagine the US army in WW2 hiring a black industrialist (were there even super rich black people in the 30s and 40s?) to build experimental weapons?

 

[370999]

I dunno... I would think that part of Batman is coming from old money and having an aristocratic air to him to fit with him being a modern day dark knight and I'm no sure a black character could do that due to America's history. Maybe in fifty years but I dunno.

Superman on the other hand can darn well be any race. As can Spider-man or Green Lantern, etc.

Or maybe I'm a vile racist? Who knows...

 

[Altorin]

That's what they did to Nick Fury, and people seem to like Nick Fury better since he became black. Although I don't think naming the comic "Black Batman" would be a bright idea. That's just asking for trouble, but I for one don't care if batman is Black or not. There have been a lot of race changes in comic history.. usually whitewashing but not always.

We had a similar thread like this when a black actor said that it would be cool to play Spider-man.. lots of racism in the response to that, but honestly, I don't have a problem with any of it, as long as it's good. If it's bad, and "black" is just used as a character trait, that's silly, but color of the skin doesn't matter at all, and things are changed and retconned all the time in comics.

Maybe start it as an alternate universe Batman, if DC still has those

*shrugs*

 

[The White Hunter]

I wouldnt give a shit because fuck Batman. I only like the recent movies and although Christian Bale would be a heavy loss I dont think having some (good) black actor replace him would be the end of the world.

As long as hes not running around Gotham in baggy pants shouting "Ahhh hell nah n*gga, you aint touching none of dis shit punk" all is good.

Replace Christian Bale with Samuel L. Motherfucking Jackson and I would be totally on board with the whole thing.

OT: Meh? I'd question the point of the whole affair and then promptly not give a toss.

 

[verdant monkai]

Depends if you change his secret identity too.
If he was Bruce Wayne but Black that would be tolerable but not the batman everyone loves, plus everyone knows Bruce Wayne is a upper class American white guy. I suppose he could be related to Opra Winfrey. That would be funny.

I would react by throwing a tantrum and getting my nerd on and writing complaint letters to DC. In my mind you just cannot change Batman. Does anyone remember Azrael? they tried to replace Bruce then and everyone hated him.

However I want more Black super heroes, there are no really famous ICONIC ones.
We should change the Flash to make him a black guy, (no one would notice) it would seem fitting don't you think?

 

[twohundredpercent]

It really wouldn't change shit in my opinion. There wouldn't be a point.

 

[Troublesome Lagomorph]

Oh so hes black huh? Thats just the de facto after white huh? Why not asian or indian or inuit or even jewish.......racist...

This.
And I'm not a fan of changing who the heroes are to begin with. What's the point? They are what they are. Instead of remodeling old heroes, shouldn't we make new, awesome heroes that are as diverse as they can get?
And I don't just mean white and black: there's also Indian, Native American, Asian, Hispanic and Arabic. There's more than those two races.

 

[internetzealot1]

Now, see, it would be fine for Batman to be black if he started out being black. But it is not acceptable to create him as white and then turn him black. Just start a new series with a black Batman clone, and if its too much like Batman, then making him black was never worth it in the first place.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

"Black batman" is stupid. There is however nothing wrong with batman being black. Nothing in any of the story lines or any of the various versions of his often recreated backstory require a particular ethnicity.

Of my two favorite Catwomen (that looks odd...Catwomans?) one happens to be white, one black. Ethnicity doesn't matter to the character at all.

It would only matter if something about the character is inherently race based. I can't think of one at the moment, but to give a silly example, if a Nazi superhero was turned from White Christian to Black Gay Jew in a retcon.

Ethnicity is not the same as race. Black is not a race. And a black gay Jewish Nazi would be hilarious. Every Nazi ever should be retconned as black, gay, and Jewish.

Well race isn't a word with a university definition, but in general terms, yes, black probably does meet the definition of race, in fact skin colour was one of the primary determining factors in that non scientific word's early use. You know, that's why people say its "racist" when you are anti-black. But you keep feeling smug if it makes you feel better. (Especially when your corrections are wrong lol)

Read my other post and recent edit. It was a typo. And there are plenty of university definitions for race, just ask a professor and there you go. I can insult you for making typos as well, but I am pretty certain your original misunderstanding of the differences between race and ethnicity were not typos.

You claim now it was a typo...

And read my comment on your correction.

Also you might mean, University where I work, not where I go.

Let me help you out there, the term "race" is inherently "racist". There is no valid scientific use of the word, and no self respecting academic would suggest there was. Feel free to point me at that very clear universally accepted definition though.

A typo is a type of mistake.

Race is as real as we make it. You can't ignore the obvious social importance of the concept of race, even though it biologically doesn't exist. And yes there is no universally accepted definition. However, there is one for ethnicity, and it is not the same as race. Black is not an ethnicity, it is a race.

How can you positively identify it as a race, when you agree race isn't defined?

In any event, your definition is STILL wrong for ethnicity. Ethnicity CAN include racial traits. A couple segments of the Merriam-Webster definition for your attention:

a: of or relating to large groups of people classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic, or cultural origin or background
Synonyms: racial, ethnical, tribal

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ethnic

Ethnicity is just a way of grouping people into groups that make some sense and have some commonality.

Your race is a socially constructed status that is ascribed to you in accordance with certain physical traits. Your ethnicity is the social group or category you generally fit within. Black is not a valid ethnicity as it tells me nothing about what social category that individual fits within. A black Swede differs from a black African which differs from a black American. And Webster loses credibility with me for having an incorrect definition of gender.

Certainly many Black South Africans will tell you they are a different ethnicity than White South Africans. Colour can most certainly tell you part of someone's social category.

And I'm so impressed that you know more than dictionaries lol

Certainly, but you didn't say black American, you said black. There is a major difference. Hispanic Latino is an ethnicity that considers race. Hispanic is an ethnicity that does not consider to race. Latino is a race, not an ethnicity. A brown kid from Mexico is a Hispanic Latino. A kid from Mexico is Hispanic. A brown kid is Latino. They are not the same.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

Only comment I'd have is that if I saw a Black Batman comic, I'd assume it was an offshoot.

If it was called Batman, I'd assume it was either 'an alternative reality' thing, or that Bruce had died and his role had been taken over by a friend of his.

'Black Batman' says another character entirely tho.

 

[babinro]

na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na BLACKMAN!

Makes no difference to me. I've seen enough racial changes in characters over the years that you'd eventually adapt. Smithers from the Simpsons or Nick Fury from Avengers are two examples that come to mind.

 

[Joseph Alexander]

so the other night I was stoned and amused at the idea of trading Batman's ethnicity for Luke Cage's. I made this post, it's just a silly idea: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.373406-White-Luke-Cage#14436420

Now heres the real conversation: Lets say DC announce they were rebooting Batman, and he's black now. Same exact thing but he's black. Titled of the comic, oddly enough, isn't Batman but "Black Batman". HOWEVER, DC announces they will be discontinuing anything having to do with a white Batman, in other words, White Batman is being retconned out of existence.

My question is, how would you react to it? would you keep being a batman fan or would you scoff at the change of skin color? I mean thematically, it's still the same comic.... save for perhaps the Joker is now overtly racist rather then gay, and maybe there is a story arch with Batman hunting down Klansmen.

I suppose I would be all right with it, so long as they were just changing the skin color and not turning Batman into a genre of urban fiction.

(also, clearly, I'm talking about this subject very light hearted and tongueNcheek. I'm trying to be silly, no racist... even though this whole concept is vaguely racist I realize.)

so... pretty much black panther.