Blatantly Overpowered characters
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Hmmm, well I have differant opinions on things from a lot of people.
When it comes to fighting games for example I think "overpowered" comes down to the amount of effort needed compared to the results you can acheive, rather than what the actual tier list is in the hands of masterful players who play on a high level and do everything perfectly. I tend to rate things based on when two fairly average players go at it. I tend to see see characters like Ryu, Ken, and Sagat as being overpowered even if they aren't strictly speaking top tier. The reason being is that moves like say Ryu's fireball are very easy to perform and very versatile, far more so than they should be for a very simple down, forward, punch manuver. While in absolute terms a fireball spammer or someone with a basic zoning strategy is easy to beat for a skilled player, for more average players that's game breaking because the power is far greater than the effort put into it. By extension I think this is the issue with characters like Wesker, Sentinel, and various Soul Calibur characters like say Mitsurugi which someone mentioned, it's not that they aren't quite beatable for a good player, it's just that the do far more with so less little effort. Your guy who "easily beats Wesker" for example is probably playing on a much higher level than 99% of the players who do fighting games will ever be at. People talk about going to tournaments here, and just by doing that your putting yourself on a level of skill that kind of disqualifies you from discussing such things as they apply to most of the fighting game population... your simply to good to be relevent to a discussion like this.
Otherwise, Game Balance is king and I think developers need to understand that if they want any kind of competitive or semi-competitive multiplayer title, they need to seriously put game balance above everything else. Something being fun or cool doesn't matter if it's not balanced for the rest of the game. This is what most of these problems are ultimatly causd by.
I'll also say that "overpowered" can be somewhat subjective, for example in the scope of something like "Dawn Of War" most people will tell you that the "Baneblade" is overpowered, but overall the Imperial Guard faction isn't. Having the most powerful (arguably) ultimate unit is part of their overall balance, given that as a faction they tend to be a bit underpowered toe to toe unless you can control the engagements perfectly with a lot of situational units. Overall the stronger a faction's general unit makeup (which might be a matter of production speed and replacement rather than individual power) the less powerful their final units happen to be.
In general for example Space Marines have perhaps the most powerful basic infantry unit in the game, a properly prepared tactical squad has a reasonable chance of going toe to toe with just about any unit in the game for example, and will probably hurt/weaken it even if it loses, in comparison their final unit that Land Raider thing tends to be one of the weaker "ultimate" units a faction can have.
In some kinds of games, like strategy games, the overall picture matters more than criticisms of any paticular unit. In that game series I tend to point to the Tau as being generally overpowered because of the way stealth works and how reasonably it easy to pick off or outrange stealth detector units. A stealthed unit against something that can't see it, can't even be targeted and this can be easily exploited. I suspect it wasn't tested enough in any of the games, and while it can be countered, it remains OPed because it takes far more effort to counter than it does to perform.
When it comes to fighting games for example I think "overpowered" comes down to the amount of effort needed compared to the results you can acheive, rather than what the actual tier list is in the hands of masterful players who play on a high level and do everything perfectly. I tend to rate things based on when two fairly average players go at it. I tend to see see characters like Ryu, Ken, and Sagat as being overpowered even if they aren't strictly speaking top tier. The reason being is that moves like say Ryu's fireball are very easy to perform and very versatile, far more so than they should be for a very simple down, forward, punch manuver. While in absolute terms a fireball spammer or someone with a basic zoning strategy is easy to beat for a skilled player, for more average players that's game breaking because the power is far greater than the effort put into it. By extension I think this is the issue with characters like Wesker, Sentinel, and various Soul Calibur characters like say Mitsurugi which someone mentioned, it's not that they aren't quite beatable for a good player, it's just that the do far more with so less little effort. Your guy who "easily beats Wesker" for example is probably playing on a much higher level than 99% of the players who do fighting games will ever be at. People talk about going to tournaments here, and just by doing that your putting yourself on a level of skill that kind of disqualifies you from discussing such things as they apply to most of the fighting game population... your simply to good to be relevent to a discussion like this.
Otherwise, Game Balance is king and I think developers need to understand that if they want any kind of competitive or semi-competitive multiplayer title, they need to seriously put game balance above everything else. Something being fun or cool doesn't matter if it's not balanced for the rest of the game. This is what most of these problems are ultimatly causd by.
I'll also say that "overpowered" can be somewhat subjective, for example in the scope of something like "Dawn Of War" most people will tell you that the "Baneblade" is overpowered, but overall the Imperial Guard faction isn't. Having the most powerful (arguably) ultimate unit is part of their overall balance, given that as a faction they tend to be a bit underpowered toe to toe unless you can control the engagements perfectly with a lot of situational units. Overall the stronger a faction's general unit makeup (which might be a matter of production speed and replacement rather than individual power) the less powerful their final units happen to be.
In general for example Space Marines have perhaps the most powerful basic infantry unit in the game, a properly prepared tactical squad has a reasonable chance of going toe to toe with just about any unit in the game for example, and will probably hurt/weaken it even if it loses, in comparison their final unit that Land Raider thing tends to be one of the weaker "ultimate" units a faction can have.
In some kinds of games, like strategy games, the overall picture matters more than criticisms of any paticular unit. In that game series I tend to point to the Tau as being generally overpowered because of the way stealth works and how reasonably it easy to pick off or outrange stealth detector units. A stealthed unit against something that can't see it, can't even be targeted and this can be easily exploited. I suspect it wasn't tested enough in any of the games, and while it can be countered, it remains OPed because it takes far more effort to counter than it does to perform.
Most overpowered from my perspective? Okay... how can I say this... it's a Spyro game. No, it's not Spike.
It's a damn ninja monkey from The Enternal Night in the GBA version .
This guy just comes out of nowhere and goes to your level. The most effective tactic you can use against him is to preserve all your elemental energy and be unpredictable. He can almost figure out what you're planning before you actually do it. He's the third, fifth, and seventh boss and has new attacks each time. The video shows the 3rd encounter.
It's a damn ninja monkey from The Enternal Night in the GBA version .
This guy just comes out of nowhere and goes to your level. The most effective tactic you can use against him is to preserve all your elemental energy and be unpredictable. He can almost figure out what you're planning before you actually do it. He's the third, fifth, and seventh boss and has new attacks each time. The video shows the 3rd encounter.
*facepalm* again with the Smash Brothers.......
It was not designed to be competitive AT ALL. The characters not being balanced isnt really much of a problem.
As for overpowered in a competitive multiplayer game. The bolt launcher in Tribes: Ascend. ALL OF MY HATE. So its stronger than a spinfuser, doing like, 900+ dmg, and its shorter range means SHIT in most maps/deathmatch mode/arena mode.
It was not designed to be competitive AT ALL. The characters not being balanced isnt really much of a problem.
As for overpowered in a competitive multiplayer game. The bolt launcher in Tribes: Ascend. ALL OF MY HATE. So its stronger than a spinfuser, doing like, 900+ dmg, and its shorter range means SHIT in most maps/deathmatch mode/arena mode.
you've never played melee before have you?
smash bros melee seems practically made for competitive play, half the things added in that game were there almost exclusively for competitive players.
there was a reason powershielding was so much harder in melee, there is a reason L-cancelling returned(it was NEVER a glitch, and I don't want to hear any noobs try and label it as one again. http://web.archive.org/web/19991117180837/http://smashbros.com/moves_advattacklanding.html SEEEEEEEE? it was intentional since smash64, even if you try to argue that it was a glitch in taht game, there is absolutely no way you can try and say it was in melee.) heck the whole reason there is an option to turn off the items is showing that nintendo at least had some intention of making melee competitive.
and tbh even if it wasn't ever made to be competitive, the competitive scene still exists, and we're quite large, AND we're still fans of the game, so to try and go out of their way to make the game anti-competitive is kinda ridiculous and insulting, what is wrong with making a game tailor to both just like sakurai did in melee again?
and if you wanna get right down to it, honestly in a game like smash character balance should be more important, no one likes ot know their favorite nintendo character sucks, this is a game where everyone's favorite nintendo allstars go at it, do you really think people want to know their favorite character blows in the game? I know fans of ganondorf hated how hard he got nerfed from melee, I know everyone was disappointed about hwo C.falcon was a joke comapred to how he was from melee.
brawl's character balance was so bad that even at casual level it's disappointing.
None the less, if nintendo wants to "recapture" the hardcore gamers with the wiiu, they can start by recapturing the hardcore smashers they abandoned with brawl. and at the VERY least, put a patching system in the game to fix any balance issues that pop up. Because tbh there is no excuse, casual or competitive, for BS like the ice climbers chaingrab, or everything about metaknight(what a seriously poorly designed character, wtf was sakurai smoking when he was making his moveset, its like he intentionally made him to be the most OP'd character in smash history.)
Again there is no reason they can't make another game like melee which tailored to both the casual smashers and the hardcore ones.
And at the end of the day it doesn't matter if you don't feel balance is important or not in smash, as this topic is about the most blatantly obvious op'd characters in gaming, and as a result that can still apply to brawl whether you like it or not, as its got one of the most blatantly op'd characters in gaming; metaknight.
smash bros melee seems practically made for competitive play, half the things added in that game were there almost exclusively for competitive players.
there was a reason powershielding was so much harder in melee, there is a reason L-cancelling returned(it was NEVER a glitch, and I don't want to hear any noobs try and label it as one again. http://web.archive.org/web/19991117180837/http://smashbros.com/moves_advattacklanding.html SEEEEEEEE? it was intentional since smash64, even if you try to argue that it was a glitch in taht game, there is absolutely no way you can try and say it was in melee.) heck the whole reason there is an option to turn off the items is showing that nintendo at least had some intention of making melee competitive.
and tbh even if it wasn't ever made to be competitive, the competitive scene still exists, and we're quite large, AND we're still fans of the game, so to try and go out of their way to make the game anti-competitive is kinda ridiculous and insulting, what is wrong with making a game tailor to both just like sakurai did in melee again?
and if you wanna get right down to it, honestly in a game like smash character balance should be more important, no one likes ot know their favorite nintendo character sucks, this is a game where everyone's favorite nintendo allstars go at it, do you really think people want to know their favorite character blows in the game? I know fans of ganondorf hated how hard he got nerfed from melee, I know everyone was disappointed about hwo C.falcon was a joke comapred to how he was from melee.
brawl's character balance was so bad that even at casual level it's disappointing.
None the less, if nintendo wants to "recapture" the hardcore gamers with the wiiu, they can start by recapturing the hardcore smashers they abandoned with brawl. and at the VERY least, put a patching system in the game to fix any balance issues that pop up. Because tbh there is no excuse, casual or competitive, for BS like the ice climbers chaingrab, or everything about metaknight(what a seriously poorly designed character, wtf was sakurai smoking when he was making his moveset, its like he intentionally made him to be the most OP'd character in smash history.)
Again there is no reason they can't make another game like melee which tailored to both the casual smashers and the hardcore ones.
And at the end of the day it doesn't matter if you don't feel balance is important or not in smash, as this topic is about the most blatantly obvious op'd characters in gaming, and as a result that can still apply to brawl whether you like it or not, as its got one of the most blatantly op'd characters in gaming; metaknight.
Virgil umvc3 I shit you not and I MEAN I SHIT YOU NOT his level "4"(you need to go into devil trigger to use his level 3 and DT uses one gauge ) can wipe out 80% of your health and he can still end the combo with a few moves so it's basically an instakill moveThe Wykydtron said:
Yeah I play some decent Vergil myself but the damage from that follow up combo is so heavily scaled down it's ridiculous. Plus you usually don't have the bar to finish the follow up with his lvl 1. It is basically an instakill i'll give you that, but it can be difficult to pull off since you're on a limited time scale beofre DT runs out.tonyh900 said:
Besides Vergil is so squishy it's the only thing keeping him balanced. No matter how fancy your combos are, one or two resets into a decent DHC and he's basically dead.
Though Vergil's level 4 and Phoenix Wright's level 3 are so damaging in lvl 3 X-Factor... Zero frame, omni-directional, 1.2 million damage hyper (instakill from full health for 99% of the cast) for PW and probably something similar with Vergil. I play both XD
You have to work for that Turnabout Mode though, if the guy knows what he's doing at least.
I love shouting a full health Wesker to death. Dark Wesker comeback? Lol no.