Bleszinski Appeals To Phil Fish: Get Back In The Game

[Gatx]

While I feel that Fish's "I'm taking my ball and going home" move is BEYOND childish. I agree that this whole thing reaks of a need to change the general attitude of the whole gaming community.

I don't recall what he's done to piss off people in the past, but from what I understand this guy was attacking him for not forming an opinion on certain Xbox one policies until he understood them better. There are tons of journalists out there spitting total venom wherever they feel and while far from all of it is undeserved, it's unfair for the internet to fire up it's hate machine just because a developer decided to fire back without sounding like he consulted a lawyer first.

Futurama quote or not, I've seen plenty of videos on Esacpist alone who have said horrible horrible (hilarious) things about people and practicies in the industry. It's great for hits and it gets a point across, but why should we hold the people in the hotseat to a higher standard than ourselves?

Some of these guys are genuinely trying hard to pour their hearts into works of art, despite the business end of things constantly trying to make them compromise. To expect them to sit back and take abuse on both ends puts them in a toxic situation and expecting them to just be quiet about it turns us into playground style bullies. Society pushed some kid around too far, he snapped and Fez 2 is the casualty.

Fish may be immature and overreacting, but lets face facts he's just giving back what he got from the community.

A lot of the criticism I see of him doesn't have anything to do with the games he makes but how he behaves "in public," so it's not a matter of him taking a beating to the ego because people didn't like his game.

He once tweeted that PCs are for spreadsheets not games... and then FEZ was brought to Steam. There was some criticism of course, and then he goes and does this [http://steamcommunity.com/app/224760/discussions/0/828936719094418300/#p1] which certainly didn't help the situation.

Then there was that whole thing with him bluntly insulting modern Japanese games when asked for his opinion by a Japanese dev at a Q&A panel once - "Your games just suck." There may have been making a legitimate point but that is definitely NOT how it should be made.

So it's not always him fighting back though I'm sure he does his fair share of that, I feel like he's openly confrontational as well, which makes it hard for me to feel sorry for him.

 

[Your Fearless Captain]

Well, FEZ was a fun game and I'm sad that FEZ 2 is likely canceled.

 

[Jumplion]

A lot of the criticism I see of him doesn't have anything to do with the games he makes but how he behaves "in public," so it's not a matter of him taking a beating to the ego because people didn't like his game.

He once tweeted that PCs are for spreadsheets not games... and then FEZ was brought to Steam. There was some criticism of course, and then he goes and does this [http://steamcommunity.com/app/224760/discussions/0/828936719094418300/#p1] which certainly didn't help the situation.

Then there was that whole thing with him bluntly insulting modern Japanese games when asked for his opinion by a Japanese dev at a Q&A panel once - "Your games just suck." There may have been making a legitimate point but that is definitely NOT how it should be made.

So it's not always him fighting back though I'm sure he does his fair share of that, I feel like he's openly confrontational as well, which makes it hard for me to feel sorry for him.

I doubt Fish does these kinds of things out of any sort of malice or arrogance. What ends up happening is that the points he makes end up obscured by how he presents them. Like, the whole "boycott harder, nerds" thing is just a response to the immense hate he gets already, just said in an admittedly juvenile way, but his frustration and relief of that situation should be clear, yet isn't by thousands of people.

Likewise with the "Your games just suck." It was a spur of the moment statement said in a really stupid way, but the main point he wanted to make (that Japanese games are tending to fall behind in terms of modern game design and quality, because lets be honest, when was the last time we've seen an indie team pop up anywhere other than in the west?) is still somewhat valid.

 

[Screamarie]

Cliff is an idiot sometimes. His success is not worth nearly as much as people like to think it is. He isn't that influential.

If Cliff thinks we need someone like Blowfish in this industry, then he's more out of touch then I imagined. His words fall on deaf ears anyway because Fish is a drama magnet . All you have to do is look at his fidgeting smug self satisfied behavior where he insults that guy at the panel with John Blow. He likes this sort of thing, it isn't as if this is just descending upon him out of nowhere. So, I have no idea what Cliff is talking about.

Yeah that's something I don't get. I had never heard of "Cliffy B" before this site and every time he gets mentioned I have to go and look him up again to even remember that he worked on the Unreal and Gears of War franchises and I know those are good games, or at least I've HEARD that they're good games, but forgive me if I'm wrong they weren't exactly earth-shattering. People liked/loved 'em, they got a lot of money off them, but I have never heard anyone hail them as a potential classic or something of the sort.

So whenever Cliff starts advocating for Phil Fish, a man who is, at best, enjoys confrontation and at worst probably needs to see a psychatrist, I have to say that Cliff is either misguided or doing it because he likes to piss people off (something that I wouldn't necessarily be surprised at as any time Cliff opens his mouth he seems to make everyone mad, including myself).

I don't really care if Fish wants to get into it with the media, for whatever reason, I'm not the type that gives a shit if a person with any sort of celebrity gets mad and shows it. It happens to everyone, that's simply human nature and being a celebrity doesn't stop that. Either way though, quote or not, you don't tell someone to kill themselves. I see teenagers do that shit and it is considered unacceptable and cruel...Fish is a grown fucking adult.

 

[shrekfan246]

Bleszinski Appeals To Phil Fish: Get Back In The Game


Beat the haters by outperforming, not by quitting, says Bleszinski.



The argument that sparked this all off was between Fish and GameTrailers presenter Marcus Beer, which ended with Fish Tweeting a wish that Beer kill himself quote from Futurama.



Permalink

Seems silly now, doesn't it.

Not really, actually, because the potential source of a quote doesn't always negate the potential intention behind its use.

Or would you say that me using "Stupid is as stupid does" in direct reference to a comment that could potentially be taken as being stupid would not be considered potentially insulting because it's a movie quote?

 

[major_chaos]

So what I learned from this is that apparently douchebags stick together. You learn something every day.

 

[Irridium]

Beat the haters by outperforming, not by quitting, says Bleszinski.

Too bad Fish couldn't outperform his way out of a particularly flimsy wet paper bag.

But he did outperform. Well, his game did. FEZ sold like gangbusters when it was released on Steam. And continued to sell well.

 

[RaikuFA]

A lot of the criticism I see of him doesn't have anything to do with the games he makes but how he behaves "in public," so it's not a matter of him taking a beating to the ego because people didn't like his game.

He once tweeted that PCs are for spreadsheets not games... and then FEZ was brought to Steam. There was some criticism of course, and then he goes and does this [http://steamcommunity.com/app/224760/discussions/0/828936719094418300/#p1] which certainly didn't help the situation.

Then there was that whole thing with him bluntly insulting modern Japanese games when asked for his opinion by a Japanese dev at a Q&A panel once - "Your games just suck." There may have been making a legitimate point but that is definitely NOT how it should be made.

So it's not always him fighting back though I'm sure he does his fair share of that, I feel like he's openly confrontational as well, which makes it hard for me to feel sorry for him.

I doubt Fish does these kinds of things out of any sort of malice or arrogance. What ends up happening is that the points he makes end up obscured by how he presents them. Like, the whole "boycott harder, nerds" thing is just a response to the immense hate he gets already, just said in an admittedly juvenile way, but his frustration and relief of that situation should be clear, yet isn't by thousands of people.

Likewise with the "Your games just suck." It was a spur of the moment statement said in a really stupid way, but the main point he wanted to make (that Japanese games are tending to fall behind in terms of modern game design and quality, because lets be honest, when was the last time we've seen an indie team pop up anywhere other than in the west?) is still somewhat valid.

Recettear: An Item Shop's Tale. Indie game made in Japan, got a good chunk of positive press here.

 

[Abomination]

The only asshole who thinks an asshole doesn't smell is another asshole.

Guess what else they have in common? They both talk a heap of shit.

 

[Zeldias]

I don't understand why people get so upset about Fish. Like, whether or not he's an asshole or says dumb things, is he making good games? Ain't that what counts? I don't understand why a person's social behavior means we, as fans, enthusiasts, and ultimately outsiders to the dev process, should want the person out of the business. Would you care if several of the folks who filmed your favorite movies constantly insulted their co-workers, or would you just care that the scene was lit and shot well?

In some situations, I understand, like not supporting Orson Scott Card and calling him on his bullshit, because that's support of extremely negative social policy; it's a political interaction. But Phil Fish acting like an asshole is not something I can bring myself to give a fuck about so long as he makes clever puzzle games. Who cares if he's a drama magnet? People still buy shit from Peter Molyneux, and that's a guy that promises you the moon then hands you some swiss cheese with a flashlight behind it, which is way more infuriating to me than Phil Fish telling someone to choke on cock.

I guess I don't understand why everyone takes what Fish does so damn personally, then when he takes their reactions personally, gets pissy about it like he isn't just a guy with some issues. I'm not saying it's OK for him to be a jerk, but it's not like any of the people on the internet who so loathe him are his co-workers or ever interact with him personally, so shouldn't our only interest be in the quality of products he generates? Same with Cliffy B; I don't give a shit about him or how he behaves; all I care about is that he puts out quality products. If he starts supporting negative shit, either politically or in the industry, then I'll respond accordingly, but he could be the biggest douchebag since the first jerk with frosted tips and a popped collar, and it just wouldn't make a difference to me.

 

[Fox12]

I can't be the only one who finds this whole situation depressingly ironic.

Phil Fish, after putting up with tons of hate, being called "childish" (like anybody truly cared about maturity in this industry beforehand), "asshole", "pretentious", etc... after being insulted and name called by another professional media (who apparently is not even partially at fault as is just a poor victim) finally gets enough of the hate and decides to pick up and take his things. And what do people do? Call him names, insult him, berate him, and essentially justify his frustrations and leaving. I don't care if he was the Uwe Boll of gaming, it's a damn shame that anyone would leave this industry yet depressingly not surprising.

In the Escapist comments alone, not including the incredibly biased and nasty sounding news reports, there are full of hate against him simply for existing, and this is supposed to be one of the higher minded, critical thinking gaming forums out there. It's ridiculous, to say the least.

If any of you have seen "Indie Game: The Movie" it is clear that Fish has some problems. That's not presumptuous, he literally admits he has issues with stress, self esteem, and dealing with others. I don't know why this isn't obvious to everyone, Fish does not have the luxury of being in the industry for as long as others, coupled with his social issues he'd have very thin skin.

It frustrates me when I see people tear out someone whose put out so much effort into what he does, and while I don't always agree with how he presents himself, I doubt he does so purposefully. I guess I feel more sympathy for the man because I see myself in a lot of him. He speaks out of his heart, but sometimes his mouth betrays him. In addition to the number of comments from before, now that he's leaving he has thousands more comments out on the internet to completely justify his leaving, something that the people even in this very thread don't seem to goddamn realize.

The problem is, he's not just a victim. I agree that the "journalist" was at fault here, but keep in mind that Phil Fish is no stranger to controversy. He's derided other developers, insulted other members of the gaming community, and made snarky, rude, and ignorant online rants on the internet. I really do feel sorry for his troubles, but they were invited by him. He's the one who starts most of these feuds, with no justification whatsoever. Remember when he said, in front of a full panel, that Japanese games "just suck?" He was openly hostile, and said that in the most disrespectful way possible, never mind that he's right. You can't behave that way, then get upset when you invite criticism.

I would argue most of the hate comes from his overwhelmingly pretentious attitude. You get the sense that he really does think he's superior to others, and no one appreciated getting talked down too. He's not a victim, he's a bully, and I think maybe he's allowing his own self esteem issues to affect the way he treats other people. If I knew the man, I would recommend he undergo some much needed maturing, then return stronger than ever. He's a skilled developer, and he has potential, but it's past time that he grew up and joined the adult world.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

Cliff is an idiot sometimes. His success is not worth nearly as much as people like to think it is. He isn't that influential.

If Cliff thinks we need someone like Blowfish in this industry, then he's more out of touch then I imagined. His words fall on deaf ears anyway because Fish is a drama magnet . All you have to do is look at his fidgeting smug self satisfied behavior where he insults that guy at the panel with John Blow. He likes this sort of thing, it isn't as if this is just descending upon him out of nowhere. So, I have no idea what Cliff is talking about.

Yeah that's something I don't get. I had never heard of "Cliffy B" before this site and every time he gets mentioned I have to go and look him up again to even remember that he worked on the Unreal and Gears of War franchises and I know those are good games, or at least I've HEARD that they're good games, but forgive me if I'm wrong they weren't exactly earth-shattering. People liked/loved 'em, they got a lot of money off them, but I have never heard anyone hail them as a potential classic or something of the sort.

Uh... gotta disagree there. Unreal brought us the Unreal Engine, which to this day is one of the most used engine in video games. Period. A lot of franchises like Mass Effect and BioShock would not be here if it weren't for the Unreal Engine.

Also, Unreal Tournament was pretty legendary for being the first game to critically unseat the Quake franchise for best online FPS for the PC. It was kind of a big deal in the late 90s. It also layed the ground work for some of the biggest shooter franhises to come about. Like Halo. That it seems like you may not play a lot of shooters, you've got to respect the legacy that Blezinski had left and the results of his influence in the gaming world.

The guy, for all intensive purposes is a legendary game designer. He's just a designer for a genre of games that gets called simple and repetitive.

Phil Fish should actually consider that if he plans on coming back to gaming. You know. When he's done sucking his thumb whilst holding on to his favourite blankie.

 

[CardinalPiggles]

Indeed. We need more Phil Fish's and less Marcus Beer's.

I skipped over Fez because it hurt my brain even watching it, but the very idea of the game and it's execution is very good. More games like Fez please.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

Well, it's been said that the best revenge is to live well. A new, popular game could easily help in that department.

But what ever Fish does, I hope he gets to relax a bit.

 

[Roander]

Bleszinski Appeals To Phil Fish: Get Back In The Game


Beat the haters by outperforming, not by quitting, says Bleszinski.



The argument that sparked this all off was between Fish and GameTrailers presenter Marcus Beer, which ended with Fish Tweeting a wish that Beer kill himself quote from Futurama.



Permalink

Seems silly now, doesn't it.

Given the context of the rest of his tweets, the fact that it is a quote is irrelevant.

I disagree. I didn't see his entire rant but given the context of the rest of the tweet that particular line was in I think it's reasonable to interpret it as him bragging about his life rather than him wanting Beer to kill himself. This is the same way the line was used in Futurama. What bothers me about the way this is being treated, though, isn't that some people are viewing it as a demand that Beer kill himself but that no coverage I've seen of it has even acknowledged the possibility of any other interpretation.

 

[Roander]

Bleszinski Appeals To Phil Fish: Get Back In The Game


Beat the haters by outperforming, not by quitting, says Bleszinski.



The argument that sparked this all off was between Fish and GameTrailers presenter Marcus Beer, which ended with Fish Tweeting a wish that Beer kill himself quote from Futurama.



Permalink

Seems silly now, doesn't it.

Not really, actually, because the potential source of a quote doesn't always negate the potential intention behind its use.

Or would you say that me using "Stupid is as stupid does" in direct reference to a comment that could potentially be taken as being stupid would not be considered potentially insulting because it's a movie quote?

"Stupid is as stupid does" means people should be judged by their actions. It's not actually an insult. In Forest Gump it was his mother who told him this; probably to encourage him rather than insult him. This is actually an example of how it does matter whether or not something's a quote. The context from the source being quoted can be relevant to the intended meaning of the phrase. Of course that only applies when the person using the quote is aware of the context himself.

You are correct, however in that just because it's a quote doesn't mean he didn't mean it literally. I haven't seen many people even consider the possibility that he didn't, though.

 

[Icehearted]

I really hate that Cliffy B. is even a little relevant given the inordinate levels of drippy shit he's been flinging at gamers and the industry for the last year or so. That as a commenter on anything and somehow legitimized by any other website is just a downer. I realize he's contributed more to gaming that I ever will, but he's also diminished gaming more than I ever will as well. If this had been some no-name in the industry it might have sat more favorably with me, but the fact that it's Cliffy B. elicits only revulsion that it's Cliffy B. A strong word, but accurate about how he makes me feel about gaming and about himself.

Don't hate the player, hate twitter!

The truth emerges...first? Dazzling!

 

[SanguiniusMagnificum]

Hey, you know what? That Bleszinski guy has a point! Yes, the internet can be a vile and abusive entity, but that shouldn't let you down. Just man up, get back to work and unleash that gian HADOKEN!I can get behind that mindset.

Wait,you're telling me Bleszinsky is actually Cliffy B? The most douchetastic douche of douches in the industry? Yeah, you know, forget about everything good that I wrote about that...

 

[TheSaintX]

I always had a feeling he'd go a bit nuts after seeing Indie Game: The Movie but it's nice to see Cliff caring.

 

[Agayek]

Too bad Fish couldn't outperform his way out of a particularly flimsy wet paper bag.

Eh. To be fair to the man, Fish is a talented game designer. Fez is an excellent game with a charming art style, tight mechanics, and fairly high production values for its budget. It's not the best game ever by any means, but it most certainly is a very well made game that clearly had a lot of love and passion poured into it.

It's just unfortunate that Fish seems to be incapable of not acting like a cock in the public space.

By all means, dislike the man or the game all you like, but don't say that Fez is a bad game, because it really isn't. It may not appeal to you (I got tired of it fairly quickly myself), but that only means it's not for you.