Blizzard Attacks StarCraft II Cheat Developers

[Rooker]

Ok, I am so thoroughly lost. Are people getting railed for multiplayer cheating, singleplayer cheating, both, any cheating at all? Don't most companies that create games with the strong potential for cheats (Like Starcraft and Warcraft's RTS games in the past) usually release their own set of cheats?

I'm lost. And I'm not gonna waste money on Starcraft II if I have to push through the campaign on my own merits. I suck, I know I suck, but I play legit when I play multiplayer and usually take it up the ass. Or get insanely fucking lucky and just happen to build a bigger, angrier army. I remember when I first got into battle.net though. It took me almost a month to stop reflexively throwing up all the cheats I'd learned. My first game people are watching "insecta-soul: Power overwhelming Insecta-soul: Operation cwol" etc. and I was laughed at. So I said "Hey, why aren't these working?" "Because it's multiplayer, they don't work in multiplayer." "Oh...I'm screwed." "Yep." I think I actually ditched that game, I don't really remember. I was 13 or 14 I think. (Let's back-up and think about that in some "underage gaming" thread later, parents bought it and Diablo 2 and I'm just fine)

I started playing later on and did mostly specialized games because then I was given the option of being on somebody's side and we all carved a path of devastation through our enemies. Get your ass beat slightly less often. I still played regular games once in a while just to see if I got any better. Won maybe...two games that I can ever remember and I just happened to be insanely aggressive in one of them. I remember almost prolonging a game once by hightailing my brand new CC out of the base, enemy wound up spotting it and catching up after cleaning out my one and going "Wait...why isn't the game over...?" That was kinda funny 'til he found it. I hadn't moved it anywhere to start building, I had just been like "Ok, run and hide and figure something out after I get away." Now I know better. So it's not like Starcraft hasn't taught me anything about legitimate gaming, but I'll be damned if I don't get to enjoy my plot. I have a friend who plays games through legitimately the first time and then screws with cheats to see what kind of fun you can have with them afterward. As I'm story-obsessed and royally suck at the tactical work that makes some fights easier, cheats are the only way I'm getting my story.

So backtracking all the way back to the main topic and what I really wanna know, are we getting nailed for any goddamn cheat or just these third-party things that are modifying the game? Considering I would never waste the money for a jacked up game, I'm hoping that I wouldn't be punished for the free cheats I get which I also would hope were the Blizzard-sanctioned modifications. Or did they take the route Halo was popular for (that was a concerning point but it turned out to be acceptable for me) and the game has no cheats and the only way to get them is through these third-parties effing with the game?

If it's just cheating in general or SCII has no cheats of its own to begin with, then I can't get it. I have no goddamn business buying it to begin with. I just don't have the skill for it. I could probably develop it, but I wanna get a game and fuck around with cheats to relieve stress. Getting my ass beat on a regular basis is not fun and it adds more stress.


EDIT: Oh, now I see it all. Of course those were made while I was typing this.
Thanks for the clarification guys. Now at least it makes more sense.
...Is there a "strike" code on Escapist? I'd rather leave my rant up but I don't want people reading it that now don't need to read it and give me the answer I already have.

 

[Gindil]

So...your problem is that Blizzard is banning people who are using unfair means to gain achievements? This is nice...

This thread is looking like the thread in which Bungie reset cheaters stats.

That's not it at all. Look two up for another side of the story.

 

[Staskala]

I think this needs some clarification:

Are these "hacks" the same singleplayer hacks that warranted all those recent bans or are we talking about different hacks specifically designed for multiplayer?

Yes they are, this was on CheatHappens' forums too.

In that case I have lost all understanding for Blizzard's behaviour.

Third-party modifications are what kept Blizzard's non-WoW games popular for an insane amount of time, what are they hoping to gain by this?
Creating paranoia in modding circles about what is allowed and what isn't won't exactly help Starcraft II in the long run, and sueing people for several million dollar is essentially pointess because there's no way you'll ever see that money.

I really don't get this move.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

Permaphrost... what an original name. Not.

I'm with Blizzard on this. I get tired of dealing with people who cheat and hack in order to gain an unfair advantage against me in multi-player.

The people selling multi-player hacks knew what they were getting into. They can't feign ignorance.

What amazes me is that no one has looked further into the story. It was single player too [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/104294-Blizzard-Gives-Single-Player-StarCraft-2-Cheaters-a-Time-Out-Opens-Can-of-Worms-UPDATED], where they basically tell people "cheat at your own risk"

So all in all, this is a money grab mostly. There's a reason I won't support Blizzard and Activision games. Some corporation telling me how to enjoy a game is kinda missing the point.

I agree, check out my previous post.

Are you missing the point that these cheats/trainers were sold rather than just given away?

 

[linwolf]

Blizzard I used to like you, now you're just a part of Activision.

Going after single player not cool.
Going after people making mods for single player not cool.
If you don't like mods, PC are no place for you.

 

[Littlee300]

Activision is throwing around their weight too much, they're turning into bullies and what we must ask is how long before they start targeting innocent people.

How did you get out of the basement? Get back down there and don't come back up until you brought you're rationality!
_____________________________________________________________
If the player disables the achievement things he should be allowed to cheat. So Blizzard should stop using the greedy approach and use the friendly approach.

 

[Staskala]

Permaphrost... what an original name. Not.

I'm with Blizzard on this. I get tired of dealing with people who cheat and hack in order to gain an unfair advantage against me in multi-player.

The people selling multi-player hacks knew what they were getting into. They can't feign ignorance.

What amazes me is that no one has looked further into the story. It was single player too [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/104294-Blizzard-Gives-Single-Player-StarCraft-2-Cheaters-a-Time-Out-Opens-Can-of-Worms-UPDATED], where they basically tell people "cheat at your own risk"

So all in all, this is a money grab mostly. There's a reason I won't support Blizzard and Activision games. Some corporation telling me how to enjoy a game is kinda missing the point.

I agree, check out my previous post.

Are you missing the point that these cheats/trainers were sold rather than just given away?

This is a dubious claim, if the trainers show up on a subscription based dedicated cheats/trainer/hacks/whatever site despite being made available for free, then you can also claim that they were technically "sold".

I seriously think that all discussion here is pointless due to lack of information.
We don't even have any details about what those hacks/trainers actually did.

 

[Evilsanta]

Permaphrost... what an original name. Not.

I'm with Blizzard on this. I get tired of dealing with people who cheat and hack in order to gain an unfair advantage against me in multi-player.

The people selling multi-player hacks knew what they were getting into. They can't feign ignorance.

What amazes me is that no one has looked further into the story. It was single player too [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/104294-Blizzard-Gives-Single-Player-StarCraft-2-Cheaters-a-Time-Out-Opens-Can-of-Worms-UPDATED], where they basically tell people "cheat at your own risk"

So all in all, this is a money grab mostly. There's a reason I won't support Blizzard and Activision games. Some corporation telling me how to enjoy a game is kinda missing the point.

I agree, check out my previous post.

Are you missing the point that these cheats/trainers were sold rather than just given away?

This is a dubious claim, if the trainer shows up on a subscription based dedicated cheats/trainer/hacks/whatever site depite being made available for free, then you can also claim that they were technically "sold".

I seriously think that all discussion here is pointless due to lack of information.
We don't even have any details about what those hacks/trainers actually did.

Well as a RTS trainer user i can fill up some of it.

It mostly have options like infinte resources or power and/or insta build units/upgrades ther are other ones but that are the most commons ones when it comes to trainers, atleast the ones on RTS games. And no i have never used on on multiplayer and i never will.

 

[BobisOnlyBob]

Okay, so Blizzard, and Ubisoft games are off my list. Activision? Still undecided...

I can see now why Valve gets so much love.

Valve hates hackers and cheaters too. However, they only keep them off of "Valve-Anti-Cheat" servers, and generally don't pursue them this aggressively. They do go to lengths to prevent people cheating, but Blizzard's logic is correct if people are deploying these cheats in ranked public games. Team Fortress and Valve games use a dedicated servers model, rather than the unified matchmaking service used by Blizzard - by deploying cheats in a matchmaking service, you DO harm its value.

 

[Staskala]

Permaphrost... what an original name. Not.

I'm with Blizzard on this. I get tired of dealing with people who cheat and hack in order to gain an unfair advantage against me in multi-player.

The people selling multi-player hacks knew what they were getting into. They can't feign ignorance.

What amazes me is that no one has looked further into the story. It was single player too [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/104294-Blizzard-Gives-Single-Player-StarCraft-2-Cheaters-a-Time-Out-Opens-Can-of-Worms-UPDATED], where they basically tell people "cheat at your own risk"

So all in all, this is a money grab mostly. There's a reason I won't support Blizzard and Activision games. Some corporation telling me how to enjoy a game is kinda missing the point.

I agree, check out my previous post.

Are you missing the point that these cheats/trainers were sold rather than just given away?

This is a dubious claim, if the trainer shows up on a subscription based dedicated cheats/trainer/hacks/whatever site depite being made available for free, then you can also claim that they were technically "sold".

I seriously think that all discussion here is pointless due to lack of information.
We don't even have any details about what those hacks/trainers actually did.

Well as a RTS trainer user i can fill up some of it.

It mostly have options like infinte resources or power and/or insta build units/upgrades ther are other ones but that are the most commons ones when it comes to trainers, atleast the ones on RTS games. And no i have never used on on multiplayer and i never will.

Ah, sorry, I meant that more in the sense of whether they were singleplayer only, multiplayer only, or a mix of both, which seems to be the case, but I honestly don't know whom I should believe anymore. Neither Blizzard nor CheatHappens can be considered unbiased sources, after all.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

**snip**

This is a dubious claim, if the trainers show up on a subscription based dedicated cheats/trainer/hacks/whatever site despite being made available for free, then you can also claim that they were technically "sold".

I seriously think that all discussion here is pointless due to lack of information.
We don't even have any details about what those hacks/trainers actually did.

1. If you want details see the previous ban of 5000 players, since this is the same hacks/trainers involved.

2. It is still up to the courts to decide, but I do agree with Blizz cracking down on people who have most likely profitted from something that isn't their IP.

 

[Lordedubs]

If anything, it looks really consistent with Blizzard's other recent heavy handed moves, almost none of which were rational or friendly to the consumer.

Make no mistake, though, I've no sympathy for hackers.

Also, someone should really call bullshit on this 'invisible lost profit' argument that's being used everywhere, for piracy and otherwise. Jesus Christ, just how many people could possibly be influenced by hackers in a game (especially in such a small number as SC2, and in a particular part of the game that's played by a vast minority)? Ten, fifteen people? I'm being generous here, too.

It is in Blizzard's rights to sue anyone they want for copyright infringement but just because there is a suit doesnt mean they will win a court still has to find that the defendants have indeed violated international copyright laws. The fact that they are damaging the games sales and their profits is unlikely but if they dont crack down on it it could get out of control like it did with APB and we all know thats why alot of people passed the game by because of all the rumors about hacking and botting.

Cheaters, botters, and hackers and the people who enable these individuals to do so have no right to complain. If you cant play the game the way its meant to be played then GTFO the gaming community you have no place here.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

Also for those of you who are yakking about Activision's hand being in this, may I remind you that Blizzard has a history prior to the merger of litigation.
For those of you yelling about your "right" to hack software you bought here's the precedent:
BnetD Case [http://news.cnet.com/2100-1047_3-5845905.html]

 

[FightThePower]

I think this is probably the only time I've ever been slightly in favour of a lawsuit involving copyright infringement.

Mind you, it's weird to think that Single-player cheating is now looked down upon, especially since it wasn't so long ago that developers left cheats in their game. I actually wish they did that more often, I miss typing in HOW DO YOU TURN THIS ON and instant-winning.

 

[_Janny_]

banning of single player cheaters was an absolute load of crap to me, especially since Blizz locked many people completely from the game, as in they couldnt even play the campaign/skirmish.

Took the words right off my keyboard. I just don't get it, how is cheating in single player affecting Blizz? Whenever I get bored in a game I like to cheat for some mindless fun, but as long as it's not multiplayer I'm not hurting anyone. I don't get what they have against that.

 

[deth2munkies]

Talk about a little biased journalism?

Before anyone else jumps on an anti-cheaters band wagon here, these people are not being sued because they enable cheating in multiplayer. In fact at least some hackers said they would change their programs to work STRICTLY in single player after Blizzard started banning players. No... Blizzard have been banning players who used these programs in single player, Blizzard allows cheating like this anyway via in-game cheats, it is just that trainers allow for greater options.

Doing this Blizzard might very well be forcing players getting these permabans to buy the game all over again if they want to keep playing (these are not little bans people). Frankly, it has become a mess made by Blizzard by this point. Of course this is a fair deal of speculation, but with its WoW empire and Activision in the room with them, Blizzard might be feeling more temptation/pressure than ever before to become extra greedy.

So what is it about? Money.

Edit: For reference please see this correspondance http://www.cheathappens.com/article_blizzardbans.asp
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions naturally, but the facts are that Blizzard are not playing totally kosher here.

AHAHAHAHA...just when I think people on the internet can't get MORE illogical. "Hey, you're being biased, here's the most biased possible source that contradicts you."

Blizzard is banning people who use 3rd party hacks and modifications to the game files that are strictly prohibited in both the EULA and ToS. They read the rules, read that they could be banned if they did it, they did it anyway, got banned, cried. That's all there is to it. And people that were fucking STUPID enough to spend $60 on the game and $15 on an illegal trainer for it don't even deserve to have that much disposable income. Ones who re-buy the game and do the same thing have surpassed stupidity and delved into insanity.

Bans do NOT automatically constitute another sale of the game. If you get banned for doing something stupid, it's always better to just cut your losses and say "Fuck this shit". If they do re-buy it, they won't get banned again unless they're insane, so it's not like they're getting 3-4 sales out of people.

Blizzard hasn't so far perma-banned anyone who hasn't broken the EULA or ToS in some way, so they haven't overstepped any sorts of bounds.

Not only all that, THIS article is about lawsuits brought against the people coding and distributing the hacks, not the people who use them. You clearly lack reading comprehension and are trolling boards netwide with the same redundant argument every time you see the word "Blizzard" and for that you have earned a place in the 6th circle of internet hell.

 

[Nifty]

I'll just copy-pasta what I said in a similar thread:

Such an absurd over reaction. This is just Blizzard saying "we're so big and rich that we can afford to look juvenile and daft". This is no different from some WoW nutter having his magic sword swindled out of him and then going round the perpetrator's house in real life and stabbing him to death.

If someone cheats in an online game they should just be tarred and feathered, a scorched earth response just sets more horrendous examples to other publishers/developers already obsessed with the where-there's-a-blame-there's-a-claim culture.

 

[ItsAPaul]

Don't let the article fool you, you can buy/sell gold and bot all you want and blizz doesn't do a thing. Just don't make a business out of it.

 

[RYjet911]

EULA and ToS don't have any use in the law. All they can do is allow Blizzard an acceptable set of guidelines to ban people.

Their strategy is complaining that it causes them lost sales.

Okay then. So if I go around telling people that I don't think StarCraft 2 is a particularly good game and not worth the £30+ it is in the shops, and people listen to my advice and not buy the game, have I technically just lost them sales?

Are they going to sue me loads of money too because I've lost them potential customers of both their game and future downloadable content? Will they sue me for not buying their game because I was a potential customer who isn't buying the game, not because of hackers (I personally couldn't give a fuck, it's what the end game button is and people only care because of the recent trend of Kill/Death or Win/Loss ratios, or kill/win streaks in more recent gaming) but simply because I didn't exactly like the first game all that much and StarCraft 2 is pretty much more of the same with shinier graphics?

Seriously, Blizzard is huge, and it's a shame they're harbouring a higher frequency of this bullshit. The only game I've bought from them in the past was Diablo, and while at the time I thought it was okay, it was nothing exceptional, and my opinion of it made me not buy Diablo 2. Does that mean they will sue THEMSELVES because they lost a potential sale?

It's a retarded lawsuit strategy that I'm honestly shocked is getting through the legal systems, especially when they're going after a few more-than-likely bedroom coders with nothing better to do than make a game easier by use of a program.

I bet this is the whole reason they wanted the RealID system too, so that hackers who are caught can be prosecuted without them having to request from ISPs or whatever the real info of people.

And do they realise that Counter Strike: Source, a game riddled with hackers, still has a few thousand active servers, and still gets bought actively enough on Steam that they can STILL update it? They even released a new thing somewhat recently that gives players of it access to beta updates so they can test it among actual players. They're able to do that while hackers pick away at the Valve Anti-Cheat system implemented within the servers to help stop hackers in their tracks.

And they don't go around suing hackers/coders for it.

Oh wow, a hacker is on the leaderboard. Just ban the fucker and leave it at that.

Oh wait, it's easier to make money from suing someone who simply won't be able to pay the eventual fines rather than spend money making it a more enjoyable experience for everyone.

I've never been a fan of Blizzard and now I never will be. Their own malpractices have lost them potential sales, and I hope they sue themselves over it.

Or hell, I hope they sue me over it. I'd love to see that get through court.

 

[Gsmoove]

Activision is throwing around their weight too much, they're turning into bullies and what we must ask is how long before they start targeting innocent people.

How did you get out of the basement? Get back down there and don't come back up until you brought you're rationality!
_____________________________________________________________
If the player disables the achievement things he should be allowed to cheat. So Blizzard should stop using the greedy approach and use the friendly approach.

what I mean by targeting innocent people, is that their policy might change to further strip the rights of consumers. If someone buys a game than it shouldn't matter if they cheat in single player, no need to be so confrontational if you need something better explained, you sound like a troll.