Blizzard Attacks StarCraft II Cheat Developers

[JerrytheBullfrog]

This thread is filled with nothing but whiners. If you're selling a program designed to hack a game, the developer is incredibly justified to go for the throat.

Interesting you mentioned the word "precedents" in this very post. (sorry I snipped it.. but I'm sure you remember the last half of your post) It's interesting because there is already a precedent set in this matter. One of Lewis Galoob Toys, Inc. v. Nintendo of America, Inc. Should I give you the spoiler? Oh ok.. Nintendo lost. Thus why to this day we have the Gameshark, and other game cheating devices.

Please look up Blizzard vs. WoW Glider.

Blizzard won. Given the persistent online nature of StarCraft's multiplayer, the WoWGlider case is significantly more relevant where persistence is concerned.

 

[Daft Ghosty]

Please look up Blizzard vs. WoW Glider.

Blizzard won. Given the persistent online nature of StarCraft's multiplayer, the WoWGlider case is significantly more relevant where persistence is concerned.

I know the case, and read both sides the two issues are not the same. The trainer in question is for single player. It does not play the game for you. It does not log onto a multiplayer match and gain you rankings without you being at the keys. And above all it isn't used for playing online at all. Blizzard won the case because they were able to convince a judge that the Glider software affected other players in a gross way. Which in turn would affect their image as a company. This trainer which is used for single player portion of the game, at most gains you achievements which have no affect on your online game play. In short they do not enhance, or give an advantage to those who play online.

 

[Soods]

Blizzard made cheats for single player, why do people get all these hacks and stuff to cheat on single player? OH RIGHT! You get all the cool achievements and portaits for MULTI PLAYER!

 

[Substance-E]

Please look up Blizzard vs. WoW Glider.

Blizzard won. Given the persistent online nature of StarCraft's multiplayer, the WoWGlider case is significantly more relevant where persistence is concerned.

I know the case, and read both sides the two issues are not the same. The trainer in question is for single player. It does not play the game for you. It does not log onto a multiplayer match and gain you rankings without you being at the keys. And above all it isn't used for playing online at all. Blizzard won the case because they were able to convince a judge that the Glider software affected other players in a gross way. Which in turn would affect their image as a company. This trainer which is used for single player portion of the game, at most gains you achievements which have no affect on your online game play. In short they do not enhance, or give an advantage to those who play online.

It doesn't matter what it does. The fact of the matter is it affects online play at all which is Blizzard territory. These people did something on Bliz's servers they weren't supposed to and they are getting nailed for it, plain and simple...

 

[Zer_]

Please look up Blizzard vs. WoW Glider.

Blizzard won. Given the persistent online nature of StarCraft's multiplayer, the WoWGlider case is significantly more relevant where persistence is concerned.

I know the case, and read both sides the two issues are not the same. The trainer in question is for single player. It does not play the game for you. It does not log onto a multiplayer match and gain you rankings without you being at the keys. And above all it isn't used for playing online at all. Blizzard won the case because they were able to convince a judge that the Glider software affected other players in a gross way. Which in turn would affect their image as a company. This trainer which is used for single player portion of the game, at most gains you achievements which have no affect on your online game play. In short they do not enhance, or give an advantage to those who play online.

You realize that making money off these trainers is already a breach of copyright?

 

[Daft Ghosty]

You realize that making money off these trainers is already a breach of copyright?

No it is not. And I'll site for you the ruling on Lewis Galoob Toys, Inc. v. Nintendo of America, Inc. In case you don't know what that is. Are you old enough to know what a Gamegenie is? Yes? No? It is one of the first cheating devices for games. Nintendo tried to claim the same thing. They lost. Its covered under fair use.

The Court denied Nintendo's motion for a preliminary injunction, holding that Game Genie did not create a derivative work and also suggesting that even if it did, it might well be fair use. As the district court wrote, "Having paid Nintendo a fair return, the consumer may experiment with the product and create new variations of play, for personal enjoyment, without creating a derivative work."

 

[Zer_]

You realize that making money off these trainers is already a breach of copyright?

No it is not. And I'll site for you the ruling on Lewis Galoob Toys, Inc. v. Nintendo of America, Inc. In case you don't know what that is. Are you old enough to know what a Gamegenie is? Yes? No? It is one of the first cheating devices for games. Nintendo tried to claim the same thing. They lost. Its covered under fair use.

The Court denied Nintendo's motion for a preliminary injunction, holding that Game Genie did not create a derivative work and also suggesting that even if it did, it might well be fair use. As the district court wrote, "Having paid Nintendo a fair return, the consumer may experiment with the product and create new variations of play, for personal enjoyment, without creating a derivative work."

Modifying a game for your own personal use, and distributing it for free is not illegal. Having people pay for a modification is, however.

Second, the Game Genie was able to convince people that it was not making a profit off of other people's work. Unfortunately, trainers are for specific games. This means that those who are creating and distributing trainers for a fee are making money off of someone's intellectual property.

Third, Game Genie is classified as a hardware modification, which means it doesn't follow intellectual property laws. Of course, if the same case was to be put into court these days, for a similar piece of hardware like a USB key or something similar, things would probably turn out different.

(Also note that intellectual property laws are not the same as they used to be. They are now much more restrictive).

The WoW Glider case did not win because it was providing an unfair advantage to certain players. Although this was definitely argued in the courts, what caused MDY to be liable was COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT!

WoW Glider injected code into RAM, exactly like a trainer does. And that was determined to breach copyright.

Glider is meant to automate and simplify actions by the user of the software within the World of Warcraft environment through the use of extensive scripting. While the makers of the software assert that the software is meant to overcome design flaws in the World of Warcraft environment, Blizzard contended in a 2006 United States federal lawsuit that the program's use violated their terms of service. In July 2008, the court entered summary judgment holding Glider's creators liable for tortious interference and copyright infringement, based, in part, upon the legal premise that users of the World of Warcraft client software are licensees rather than owners of their copy of software

 

[Daft Ghosty]

Modifying a game for your own personal use, and distributing it for free is not illegal. Having people pay for a modification is, however.

Second, the Game Genie was able to convince people that it was not making a profit off of other people's work. Unfortunately, trainers are for specific games. This means that those who are creating and distributing trainers for a fee are making money off of someone's intellectual property.

(Also note that intellectual property laws are not the same as they used to be. They are now much more restrictive).

We will just have to see how this all turns out with the laws somewhat different now. That being said. Game Genie won b/c the court recognize the right of people to re imagine their game. The game Genie was a product for that purpose. Nintendo wasn't suing customers they were suing the makers of Game Genie who were selling the product that allowed this. In short profit or not the company was selling a product, and making money from that product. It doesn't matter in a courts eyes if your company is failing at turning a profit. That doesn't make it then ok if your company is breaking even selling an item.

I would like to talk more on the issue later, but right now I have a horrible migraine. Personally I want to know if the new laws will trump precedent. I know there are cases were new law doesn't. Anyway my head is throbbing.

 

[DTWolfwood]

So i take it cheathappens gonna get the shaft now for trying to defend Cheating in the Singleplayer. lol nothing like awakening a sleeping giant! And yet how fitting that Cataclysm opening cinematic has been released showing just that XD

I got nothing on trainers for a singleplayer game. However, their trainers still allow the users to get ONLINE achievements while using them. Now thats just not playing fair

Yes its all about the money! but again this is business plus i really dont think Blizzard even has any intention of winning! they are just gonna sink them through the Litigation Hammer! [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/7951-Experienced-Points-The-Litigation-Hammer]

 

[TechNoFear]

I've always wondered... WHY create these hacks when you know it WILL lead to lawsuits? They might be great hackers, but on every other level they're butt-head retarded. You don't dabble with someone elses software without permission! First rule when it comes to programing.

No where near correct. But I only have 2 decades of experience creating bespoke IPC based systems, many built to automate other suppliers machinery and software.

A few years ago I created a system to automate many functions on General Electric DASH series locomotives. I reverse-engineered all the file formats, automated operation of the data recorders/safety systems (ie a 'bot'), then created software to store and display the 80,000 data items the locos produce each day.

What did GE do, even though this would cost them $10,000's per day?

Not a thing.

 

[Aurgelmir]

I dont know, I dont cheat/hack on ANY game I play, since it pretty much ruins the point. HOWEVER ruining someones financial future and possibly their life because they erroneously believed they wouldnt get caught doing something, in the grand scheme of things, relatively minor, I think is more douche-baggish than what the hackers did in the first place. I mean, ruining someones real life over a VIDEO GAME is completely over the top. I sincerely hope Blizzard loses these lawsuits.

Except for Blizzard it's not a video game. It's product they made to make money, and if something hurts that product they have right to take any legal actions, because in the end it's their finances being harmed.

That said however i don't really get the whole problem. As i understood from previous reports those hacks been used in single player games, and pretty much only affected achievements which mean, uh nothing?
Oh okay, maybe the cheaters got a few unlockable portraits more, i don't think that really ruins the multiplayer experience that much. It's not like they made cheats to win automatches/ranked games.

It does ruin my game if the play against me with those cheats.

 

[Kurokami]

Talk about a little biased journalism?

Before anyone else jumps on an anti-cheaters band wagon here, these people are not being sued because they enable cheating in multiplayer. In fact at least some hackers said they would change their programs to work STRICTLY in single player after Blizzard started banning players. No... Blizzard have been banning players who used these programs in single player, Blizzard allows cheating like this anyway via in-game cheats, it is just that trainers allow for greater options.

Doing this Blizzard might very well be forcing players getting these permabans to buy the game all over again if they want to keep playing (these are not little bans people). Frankly, it has become a mess made by Blizzard by this point. Of course this is a fair deal of speculation, but with its WoW empire and Activision in the room with them, Blizzard might be feeling more temptation/pressure than ever before to become extra greedy.

So what is it about? Money.

Edit: For reference please see this correspondance http://www.cheathappens.com/article_blizzardbans.asp

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions naturally, but the facts are that Blizzard are not playing totally kosher here.

Speaking as a player (who hasn't touched the game in about a month, not because I'm dissapointed in its quality but simply because I find the online irritating due to the new hoops they've invented for me to jump through) I gotta say I find these bans and suits a bit unnerving, they say that they're protecting the online experience but so far I feel more so that everyone who plays the game is under constant supervision and could have the game snatched away from them at a whim.

My image of Blizzard has turned from a kind marhsmellow man into some kind of Tyrant.

Anyway, where's Diablo 3?

 

[lSHaDoW-FoXl]

I hate hacking too but seriously, 88 million dollars? Lets stop being dicks for just a moment and think about how much money that is. More and more I can see blizzard being stricken with the activision sickness and I find it pathetic that we're letting them get away with this. An eye for an eye will leave us all blind and really, there's a certain line that exists between punishment and being a bunch of greedy dicks that abuse the law for the sake of greater wealth.

And I find it sickening that a lot of people find it far more justifiable that a business kicks someone to the ground to a point where they can't get back up as opposed to someone being a cocky, and if you may, a cancer in Battle.net 2. I've seen people beaten half to death and they haven't even received half of that. So here you go, this is exactly what our priorities are.

Being a childish brat online will fuck you to the ground and take everything you have and far more then your worth, meanwhile if you beat someone with a god damned bat you won't even have to pay half a million.

And to anyone that was indecent and unthoughtful enough to say 'they deserved it' I want you to think just for a moment of the people that this . . . extortion has suffering. These hack creators probably have families and even if they don't have a wife and a kid they still have a mother, a father, and maybe even a sister or brother.

And these people shouldn't have to suffer for his/her mistakes, and these mistakes shouldn't cost the individual this much. You know those times when you bragged on how you're an individual and you have a mind of your own? Well apparently not because all it took was a small article from blizzards point of view and a statement like 'We're trying to teach hackers a lesson!' For you to completely condemn a person to the ground, just like those people who burned witches.

I'm not saying the people who grieve other players shouldn't go unpunished, because they certainly should have consequences for their childish and selfish behavior. It's just that this 'punishment' has turned into extortion with a paper thin excuse to justify it that clearly annoys me.

I find banning players who hack is a perfect punishment for their actions and I certainly agree with that. I can also agree with having those that create hacks paying a certain sum of money to deter them from continually doing it. But really, when you're asking for 80 Million you're asking too damn much.

I would also love to point out the hypocrisy behind blizzards actions. SC 1 was basically one of the very first games that heavily supported the mod community, in a certain sense some hacks can be implied as mods, especially when they don't grief other players online like a hack for single player mode.


Punishment goes both ways and I believed blizzard should be punished in return, I believe they should be sued for 80 million dollars. Because unlike some of us, they can actually afford that.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

Are they actually suing someone for 90 million dollars JUST because of some trainers? Fuck Blizzard. I am done supporting them. To actually sue someone for creating cheats is absolutely insane. It's even more insane when they're demanding 90 goddamn million dollars. It's like a case in which some dude pirated a few songs only to be forced by court law to pay 100.000 for each downloaded song. If you continue to support Blizzard after seeing this then you're going to need a damned good reason for that support to be justified.

 

[Daft Ghosty]

It does ruin my game if the play against me with those cheats.

The cheats in question do not work online. They are for single player. When Blizzard says online they are referring to people who are playing the single player campaign while being logged into Bnet. No one one was banned for using these trainers again other players, they were banned for using them playing single player. That is why this is all a very dick move on Bliz's part.

 

[Daft Ghosty]

Ofc you create "addons" to programs to enhance em for either personal or business usage. What were talking about here is creating bonuses for yourself, while making other users suffer. The best analogy i can come up with (it is early) is creating an addon for a web based bank that makes it take 2 sec for you to make a deposit, but it screws up ALL other customers so it takes 30 sec for them to make a deposit. You've degenerated the system for personal gain.

Nothing like that is happening here.

These hacks clearly affects blizzard's servers, considering how they can "trick" the achievement system. Although I don't know the details around these hacks, but considering blizz' agressive stance, I take it they also create an unnecessary risk for instability that (as they put it) can lead to "loss of player-base and further sale of expansions".

These hacks, aka Trainer has done one thing only, and as a side effect. They allow for a person to gain SINGLE player achievements. The effect is they gain portraits. That's it. The achievements have no other effect on the game. They don't give you special units, they don't effect other players ability to play fairly online. Again the only achievements the trainer unlocks are the single player ones. And they have no effect on multiplayer play.

 

[Anton P. Nym]

It does ruin my game if the play against me with those cheats.

The cheats in question do not work online. They are for single player.

They were designed for single player. However they are apparently easily convertable to work in multiplayer as well.

Frankly I don't see the point of using these trainers in single-player given that most of the functionality is already included in the game via console commands... unless you're looking to either boost achievements/trophies (which is cheap and tasteless and sad, like wanking in public) or convert them for multiplayer.

As to those asking why not just ban accounts using them, well, then there's no penalty for writing these things. If the goal is to protect the play experience for those playing the game fairly, it doesn't make sense to penalise only those using the cheats... that's a never-ending banquest. You stop a lot more cheaters by cutting off their source, which means deterring people from creating the cheats in the first place. Which means, alas, lawsuits because asking nicely doesn't seem to work.

I'm siding with Blizzard on this one; nuke 'em till they glow so you can shoot 'em in the dark.

-- Steve

 

[Daft Ghosty]

They were designed for single player. However they are apparently easily convertable to work in multiplayer as well.

Funny I've not seen or heard of an account of the cheat happens trainer being modded. I'm not saying someone didn't, but I've not heard of it happening yet. It isn't as simple to change the software as you think. If this would happen even cheat happens would be after the people who did the hack.

Frankly I don't see the point of using these trainers in single-player given that most of the functionality is already included in the game via console commands... unless you're looking to either boost achievements/trophies (which is cheap and tasteless and sad, like wanking in public) or convert them for multiplayer.

And I personally don't see why people drive big gas guzzling SUVs, when there are other options that don't use as much gas. It's called personal preference. I don't play the multiplayer. And I use the trainer instead of in game codes. I'm sorry you can't understand my personal choice, but that is what is great about america. We have personal choice. I use trainers because they are simple, and faster to use then CML codes. Maybe if the CML codes could be bound to a single key like back in the day with Quake, I might consider using the CML instead. But they are not, and I'll use trainers for any game I want to for playing single player. Because again it is my choice to do so, and neither you, nor anyone else has a say in how I play my game in my home period.

edited for spell correct.

 

[Aurgelmir]

It does ruin my game if the play against me with those cheats.

The cheats in question do not work online. They are for single player. When Blizzard says online they are referring to people who are playing the single player campaign while being logged into Bnet. No one one was banned for using these trainers again other players, they were banned for using them playing single player. That is why this is all a very dick move on Bliz's part.

Maybe so, but I bet there are multiplayer cheats also.

That said, I still think they should be banned, not for cheating, but for being so retarded that you can't play a game without cheating.
I mean why use 3rd party hacks, when there are already ingame cheats that are legal? To get achievements? What good are they, an epeen isn't worth jack shit.