Blizzard Banning Single Player Cheaters?

[Nevyrmoore]

What everyone on this thread seems to have forgotten is that when you install the game you agree to a legally binding terms of use agreement

Actually, considering the terms of use is considered a contract, and you can only see said contract when you have already bought the product, it doesn't hold up in court. In other words, everything in the EULA is a load of bollocks until they find a way to show it to you before you buy the game.

 

[Lucane]

Even cheating in single-player using 3rd party methods rather than the usual built-in codes is still using 3rd party software to hack, modify and abuse the game. Wether used in multiplayer or not, I can imagine Blizzard might take issue with people screwing with their magnum opus.

Huh, used to be that when you bought a game, you owned that game and could enjoy it's content in whatever manner you saw fit. Now apparently you're somehow insulting the developer's artistic sensibilities if you cheat or mod the single-player aspects of the game, and they can take away your right to use a product which you legally purchased.

I'm sorry, but to me that seems a lot like bullshit. There is a clearly defined rationale behind banning people who cheat in multiplayer - they are giving themselves and unfair advantage in a competitive environment. That doesn't apply to single-player, even achievements for actions completed within single-player. When servers and matchmaking are provided by the developer, the developer has the right to enforce it's own rules on players who choose to engage in the multiplayer aspect of the game. However, the idea that because the developer requires an arbitrary connection to a server in order to play the single-player game, they should also be able to prevent people from playing that game? Nope.

Just another reason to pirate games, well done Blizzard, you've leapt willingly on to the bandwagon that's ruining your own industry.

My guess is when you click on the (I accept the rules and terms of this agreement) from installation or when you 1st go online with Starcraft II (I assume they one in either and/or both of those points) they cover 3rd party tools being used in anyway wiht thier product viods any rights you have of full-ownership,now if you wanna use 3rd party tools you can just not online as per the agreement(s) you'd have to click(sign).

 

[NezumiiroKitsune]

If the only reason for these mods is to bypass the security that prevents single player games where cheats are used to affect the gamer score and online achievements, I agree with Blizzards decision to block these people. Especially since Microsoft are in talks with games retailers to make the gamerscore and achievements mean something, similarly with Playstation's trophies. Abusing the game to cheat ANY online aspect unless, like in DoW, you are specifically given the option TO allow cheats, is inherently unethical, and damaging to the developers and the unfair to players who put the effort in. Or otherwise chastise them, removing the ill gotten achievements or suspension. I support their decision to take action against them at least.

If they start getting zealous about mods that don't affect any online factors, then that I'd contest, it's up to the player what they do with game (with the exception of decompiling, reverse engineering etc...).

 

[Lucane]

What everyone on this thread seems to have forgotten is that when you install the game you agree to a legally binding terms of use agreement

Actually, considering the terms of use is considered a contract, and you can only see said contract when you have already bought the product, it doesn't hold up in court. In other words, everything in the EULA is a load of bollocks until they find a way to show it to you before you buy the game.

Maybe they have copies of them on thier or some website somewhere or another.

 

[frago roc]

using trainers is a violation of the EULA, who's to tell that a cheat that modifies game code couldn't easily do so for multiplayer.

 

[Nevyrmoore]

What everyone on this thread seems to have forgotten is that when you install the game you agree to a legally binding terms of use agreement

Actually, considering the terms of use is considered a contract, and you can only see said contract when you have already bought the product, it doesn't hold up in court. In other words, everything in the EULA is a load of bollocks until they find a way to show it to you before you buy the game.

Maybe they have copies of them on thier or some website somewhere or another.

That still isn't acceptable. If you're going to buy a product that has a contract, the person selling you the item needs to provide the contract at the point of sale. If they don't do that, the contract is null and void.

*EDIT* In other words, it's like buying a phone on contract, but the company offering the phone doesn't tell you that you only get 500 free minutes until after you've gone over that.

 

[Rednog]

I'm unsure about how I actually feel about this.. on the one hand, blizzard already offers cheats for single player. And a powerful world creator which can give you any kind of gameplay experience you want..

So the only reason I can think to hack the game is to boost achievements, which at first glance seems odd, but I cheated in one of my 360 games to get achievements for it (In my defense, it wasn't as easy as just putting in the code and bing 1000 gamerscore, it took me a solid week while cheating to get them all).. so it'd be hard for me to be critical against these people..

On the other hand, I doubt I would hack a 360 game to get achievements.. I only utilize cheats that are in the game, and the bugs sometimes associated with them. My Dragon Age Origin achievements show that I did the level up glitch at some early point (in actuality I never used that character to beat the game, but you wouldn't know it to look at it), and I used a level up glitch for the specific purpose of getting achievements in Fallout 3 the day before I had to return it to blockbuster (which also is hilariously blatantly obvious cheating in my achievement list)..

So yeah, i have a history with cheating to get achievements.. But I think the crux of the matter is.. if the developers patched those glitches out of the game, I wouldn't get butt hurt... I think if blizzard had made glitches that allowed for easy achievements, I'd probably use them... but if they patched them out I'd say "oh well, that was fun while it lasted" and work for them legitimately.

So I think that purposefully creating glitches in the game to make achievements easier to get and then getting butthurt when blizzard decides that they want to "patch them out" (It's not what they're doing, I get that, but it's what they SHOULD want to do, if it were possible), I think that's sort of silly.

Banning is the wrong move. Wiping achievements, that I can understand, suspending from multiplayer games, that I can understand. Something to say "We don't like you doing this, we caught you doing this, here's a slap on the wrist".. Make it a painful slap, but just make it a slap. Banning people from playing a single player game is a HORRIBLE precedent.

Here's something to consider. Alot of people don't care about achievements and as such don't want their freedoms limited because Blizzard decided to include them. Maybe Blizzard added the achievements to justify this kind of control over that player.

That the game has built in cheats is irrelevant. Some NES games had built in cheats but that didn't invalidate the legality of the Game Genie.

I'm sorry but you're completely ignoring the intention behind the players who were banned. Blizzard in no way is limiting anyone's enjoyment of the game. You can't ignore that the game has in game cheats either because they literally give the player every power that the third party hack can give. So then are you just arguing that the players should be able to choose one type of cheat over the other despite them doing the exact same in game effect? That makes no damn sense. The players are using the hack to gain the multiplayer benefits of portraits/ symbols and whatnot. They aren't just using it to have what ever fun they want in the single player.
Blizzard isn't limiting a single damn thing for anyone in the single player game, they are just protecting the credentials of their online multiplayer which is the one and only reason these hacks exist. Any other reason you try to claim is a bunch of bs.
If you want to argue about developers limiting single games in terms of cheats etc that's a different story, but in terms of blizz they aren't limiting jack.

 

[Acidwell]

What everyone on this thread seems to have forgotten is that when you install the game you agree to a legally binding terms of use agreement and a licence so just because you bought the game doesnt mean you can do whatever the hell you want

Already been mentioned and it is irrelevant since a EULA is not legally binding and since the precedent for single players cheating was set long ago in the case of Nintendo vs Galoob. If this went to court, Blizzard would likely loose.

I'd agree in most cases but since the use of third party cheats in this case effects how other people view you in multiplayer therefore affecting someones decisions it would be a lot less of a close run courtcase than others

 

[Sethzard]

If you get achievements, I support this

 

[NezumiiroKitsune]

If the only reason for these mods is to bypass the security that prevents single player games where cheats are used to affect the gamer score and online achievements, I agree with Blizzards decision to block these people. Especially since Microsoft are in talks with games retailers to make the gamerscore and achievements mean something, similarly with Playstation's trophies. Abusing the game to cheat ANY online aspect unless, like in DoW, you are specifically given the option TO allow cheats, is inherently unethical, and damaging to the developers and the unfair to players who put the effort in. Or otherwise chastise them, removing the ill gotten achievements or suspension. I support their decision to take action against them at least.

If they start getting zealous about mods that don't affect any online factors, then that I'd contest, it's up to the player what they do with game (with the exception of decompiling, reverse engineering etc...).

The achievement only affect online factors because Blizzard designed it that way. Think about it.

I must point out that Oblivion had built in cheats (PC version only I think) but most people who play the PC version mod the shit out of it. How should Bethesda react?

Bethesda released the Elder Scrolls Creation Kit with every copy of the game, if they didn't intend that to be used to mod the game, I don't know what they were thinking.

 

[Lucane]

Maybe they have copies of them on thier or some website somewhere or another.

That still isn't acceptable. If you're going to buy a product that has a contract, the person selling you the item needs to provide the contract at the point of sale. If they don't do that, the contract is null and void.

*EDIT* In other words, it's like buying a phone on contract, but the company offering the phone doesn't tell you that you only get 500 free minutes until after you've gone over that.

Well actually it's fine for what your actually buying.Your buying the box(disc,manual,case,etc)like buying a pre-paid phone (case,phone,charger,etc)you bought a phsyical object not the service it provides(which should have what is required to operate/access it on the packaging like internet access and/or a contact phone number.) It's not there fault Stores don't honor full/partial returns on certin opened products like PC games/music discs/DVDs/Blu-rays. Since the data could have been damaged/tampered with/copied with no way to verify if any copies of a specific disc exsist in a way that could be tracked properly without being illegal.

 

[Acidwell]

Spoiler: snip

What everyone on this thread seems to have forgotten is that when you install the game you agree to a legally binding terms of use agreement and a licence so just because you bought the game doesnt mean you can do whatever the hell you want

Already been mentioned and it is irrelevant since a EULA is not legally binding and since the precedent for single players cheating was set long ago in the case of Nintendo vs Galoob. If this went to court, Blizzard would likely loose.

I'd agree in most cases but since the use of third party cheats in this case effects how other people view you in multiplayer therefore affecting someones decisions it would be a lot less of a close run courtcase than others

The player didn't design it that way, Blizzard did.

In that case blizzard cant ban wow accounts when people use trainers?