Blizzard Challenges Valve Over DOTA Trademark.

[Bradeck]

I think this is stupid. Blizzard has stolen every idea in their existence. From Warcraft to Starcraft, it's all stolen ideas. Just look at the entire first expansion of WoW. Stolen STRAIGHT from Jim Henson's the Dark Crystal. Look at Starcraft. The entire lore is even stolen from Warhammer 40K. Zerg=Tyranids, Space Marines=Space Marines, Protoss=Eldar, it goes on and on. Blizzard has always been the laziest content producers in the game market, and yet always the first to cry foul as well.

Can you name any single Valve game save for Half Life that wasn't a mod or the original idea of someone else?

Theme, Genre, that's different from stealing the entire thesis and lore verbatim from something else. In the Outlands, there is a race of bird people called the Skettis. They look exactly like, talk exactly like, and even move exactly like the Skek'sis, a race of bird like people from Dark Crystal. Then you have the Silt Striders, which look and act exactly like Farstriders, again, from Dark Crystal.

Honestly, look up the Blizzard lore about the Dragoon, and then look up the unit lore of a Dreadnaught from 40K. Both mention when an X warriors body has died, they are encased in a machine called an X, where their consciousness may live on to fight their enemies.

I don't begrudge anyone have a game where humans fight orcs, or goblins, or evles, or fairies, or dragons. It's all standard fantasy lore. But when you take models from someone elses game, or you take the ideas from Jim Henson, that pisses me off. You can't claim "It's all been done before" if it's an exact copy.

 

[Vigormortis]

I think this is stupid. Blizzard has stolen every idea in their existence. From Warcraft to Starcraft, it's all stolen ideas. Just look at the entire first expansion of WoW. Stolen STRAIGHT from Jim Henson's the Dark Crystal. Look at Starcraft. The entire lore is even stolen from Warhammer 40K. Zerg=Tyranids, Space Marines=Space Marines, Protoss=Eldar, it goes on and on. Blizzard has always been the laziest content producers in the game market, and yet always the first to cry foul as well.

Can you name any single Valve game save for Half Life that wasn't a mod or the original idea of someone else?

There's a difference between stealing someone's idea for your own product, and hiring the people behind an idea to make a new version of it.

Blizzard just tends to take others ideas, changes names and (some) art assets, and then put out the game.

Valve hires the people with the new ideas and gives them the assets to make the best version of their idea that they can.

It's like Team Fortress. The original Team Fortress was created as a Quake mod. It had a somewhat lengthy history as a quake mode before it moved to Half-Life with TFC. Yet, you never heard about id Software getting all (to use an internet vernacular) "butthurt" over Valve trademarking the name Team Fortress. Even though, until then, people associated Team Fortress with a Quake mod.

And do you know why? Because id had no claim to it. They had no rights to the name and, quite frankly, had no reason to bank on it nor fear brand confusion.

The EXACT same thing applies to Blizzard with DOTA. Their case is tenuous at best and, quite frankly, is all but completely baseless. The only reason they're doing this now is because they want to (finally) bank on the MOBA/DOTA trend with their own. (And let's face it, Blizzard DOTA as a Starcraft 2 mod is just a rushed, lazy way of getting something to market to compete with Dota2)

To put it simply, Blizzard is trying, and in my eyes failing, to play the "sympathetic to the community" card while they, in fact, would probably be trying to trademark the name themselves if Valve hadn't beaten them to it.

This whole affair screams of corporate BS to me. What is with the current trend of big-name publishers actively bashing and lambasting Valve? What, are the big boys of the playground afraid of the success of the feisty, little guy? First it's EA laying into them over Origin, now it's Acti-Blizz over the name DOTA.

Doesn't the WC3 EULA state that Blizzard owns all user generated content? I feel like this is pretty open and shut.

Yes it does, that's something that most people here seem to ignore... Blizzard could very well win this one. If they don't then it could potentially set damaging precedents to modding communities.

If I made a programming tool or language that is so good that everyone wants to use it, but then I add in the terms of agreement that I own all content created by it, does that make it right? What you're saying isn't untrue, but it's wrong. Developers should promote modding because it greatly benefits themselves, their sales and many other factors. Just look at how much WC3 has sold thanks to DOTA. But individual people shouldn't have to sign over their creative right to create things just because the devs say so. If anything, isn't that a damaging precedent to modding communities? Someone who creates a really good set of quests for Skyrim, with really good story, should be given reasons to withhold that in case they want to do something else with it in the future, instead of releasing it for the community?

Copyright and Trademark laws are retarded and need to get with the program. And in this individual case, I will quote a friend of mine:

"Blizzard has copyright through the editor for everything players create in it. But that map's name is 'Defence of the Ancients". Not Dota. Unless they also claim that they own abbreviations."

Which reminds me, Dota 2 is actually written like that = No abbreviation. It's a name. And I think I'm gonna play it now...

The EULA can state whatever it wants, that doesn't magically mean that they actually own content that was created by the community (though they might). The fact is, no one has ever really challenged the copyright ownership of mods in court (that I know of) so we don't really know. Are mods a derivative work, since they use the game engine? A judge might look at the game engine as just a tool, like Photoshop, and rule that anything created with it belongs to the creator.

This is potentially the case that will clarify it once and for all.

Indeed, I share your thoughts and your interest in seeing how this plays out.

Also, this. A company that allows the community to create mods and custom content for their games is within their right to lay claim to the use of any assets in those mods or content. So long as it's something THEY made. If the assets in question were made by the community, the developer of the game has no real claim to those assets unless they specifically force the modders to sign a licensing agreement of some kind.

Again, Blizzard is full of shit with this case and, frankly, I hope it comes back to bite them in the ass. (though, it won't. the only companies people defend more blindly then Valve are Bethesda and Blizzard)

 

[eventhorizon525]

Somehow people keep glossing over the fact Blizzard is just stopping Valve from grabbing the trademark solely, which is perfectly reasonable all things considered. I honestly think Blizzard should win *this* one legally. However, should they then follow up a victory in this court with trying to get their own trademark of DOTA, then I'm a lot less supportive of all of this (though unfortunately that has a very real chance of happening).

 

[Vigormortis]

Excellent post! Now I don't have to write one like that, and frankly, I think you said it better than I could. Especially the example with TF, spot on there. I forgot about the fact that it actually used to be a QUAKE mod.

Seems to me corporations everywhere, in different industries, are developing a court-fetish or something. They just love to take each other there!

But my response to everything you said is just simply "Amen".

What gets me the most is, Valve actually hired IceFrog and let him go about doing whatever project he wanted. He chose Dota 2.

Blizzard DOTA is nothing more than Blizzard banking (as is Valve, really. there's no denying that) on the popular MOBA trend. They don't have any of the original creators or community modders who worked on DOTA, in ANY of it's numerous iterations, working for them or working on Blizzard DOTA. It's purely them taking someone's idea and banking on it.

Yet you'll see so many players siding with Blizzard over this. All the while screaming about the "corporate greediness" of Valve. I think these people need to read this: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrisy

Seriously people, you've got two options in this whole debacle. Either side with Valve and admit to Blizzards bullshit, or call both companies out for banking on a community made and maintained idea. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Lunar Templar]

Honestly, I can imagine Activision chiefs talking among themselves:
"Do they hate us?"
"Yes, they do, they really do!"
"Wait, they don't hate Blizzard, and they are a part of us!"
"Unacceptable!"
"Indeed. They are even fond of Blizzard. Blizz is giving them Pandas and Diablo 3."
"No, that can NOT stand! Blizz will need to do something about this! Options?"
"Well, it's drown kittens on Youtube or sue Valve, nothing else will piss people enough..."
"Kittens are cute, but people love Valve more. Sue Valve! Issue the edict!"
"As you command!!!"

as i read this, i pictured a group of Sith Lords, with an apprentice running off at 'as you command' XD

OT: I'm hard pressed to care, since, I'm not even sure what DOTA is exactly ....

 

[Varil]

I'm not sure on the legal side of things, on account of most laws around things like trademark and copyright being straight-up stupid and over-complicated, but I'm on Valve's side here just because it took Blizzard so damn long to do anything about it. If you're going to start a fight over trademark/copyright crap, at least do it when the "problem" is new.

 

[linwolf]

snip

But the thing is that Blizzard isn't trying to take control over DotA, they just don't want Valve to have exclusive rights to it, and Icefrog wasn't the original creator so even though he have made it was it is today. I do not feel it give him it sole right to the name either.

To put it simply, Blizzard is trying, and in my eyes failing, to play the "sympathetic to the community" card while they, in fact, would probably be trying to trademark the name themselves if Valve hadn't beaten them to it.

The fact that they first move on it now shows that they didn't feel they should take the trademark from the creators but will only protect it from others getting taking it.

Let Valve make DotA 2, let them call it DOTA 2, just don't give the trademark to make them the only ones that can use the name.

 

[GoaThief]

Anyone claiming Blizzard are doing this for altruistic reasons are either extremely naive or disingenuous.

I can only hope a precedent won't be set if Blizzard win, it would be very bad for PC gaming.

 

[Vigormortis]

snip

But the thing is that Blizzard isn't trying to take control over DotA, they just don't want Valve to have exclusive rights to it, and Icefrog wasn't the original creator so even though he have made it was it is today. I do not feel it give him it sole right to the name either.

To put it simply, Blizzard is trying, and in my eyes failing, to play the "sympathetic to the community" card while they, in fact, would probably be trying to trademark the name themselves if Valve hadn't beaten them to it.

The fact that they first move on it now shows that they didn't feel they should take the trademark from the creators but will only protect it from others getting taking it.

Let Valve make DotA 2, let them call it DOTA 2, just don't give the trademark to make them the only ones that can use the name.

I can all but guarantee you that Blizzard will try to take over the name if they win this case. Of course they aren't laying claim to it with this particular case, but that's only because...well..."one problem at a time". First they keep Valve from trademarking it, then they swoop in and trademark it themselves.

This whole thing is simple to understand. Blizzard, for years, was banking off of the work and success of the modders making Dota. They thought, since it was a Warcraft 3 mod, they could keep profiting off of it without having to actively spend time and money hiring or licensing the property for their own internal use. I.E. They were lazy and complacent.

Then, along comes Valve, who then hires the guy who, arguably, put the most time and effort into the mod. They give him the tools and assets needed to make the game as he truly intended. Thus, Dota 2 is born.

Suddenly, Acti-Blizz realizes it's dropped the ball. They're going to lose one of their 'cash cows'. They had every opportunity to make Dota their own. They could have done more to support it. Helped fund it. Hired the creators. What have you. But they didn't. They were content to just sit back and bask in the influx of cash the modders were freely providing them.

Now, they're sore over this realization. They don't want to lose that money maker. So what do they do? They hastily slap together their own "dota" game, in the form of a Starcraft 2 mod, and then start what I'm sure is going to be a lengthy smear campaign against Valve. Kicked off by this, and let's face it here, frivolous trademarking case.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not defending Valve. They could very easily change the name. And honestly, part of me thinks they should as I believe the name, or rather the acronym, should stay with the community. However, I have to call Blizzard out on this bullshit. There's no altruism in play here. It's all corporate shenanigans.

 

[Innegativeion]

I'm surprised it's taken them this long.

I think Valve are in the wrong this time. DOTA is a Warcraft mod, and has no link to anything Valve has ever originated. If anyone has a claim on the name it's Blizzard.

This. Making a mod for a game doesn't change that the fact that you're playing that game, so DOTA is essentially just a different way of playing Warcraft 3. If I made a mod for Skyrim called "Skyrim ball" which let you play football or something in the game, does that mean I could release a new game called "Skyrim Ball 2" without consquences? Maybe if it contained just the "football" gameplay and not any of the original IP, but DOTA 2 is just that...a MOBA with the IP that existed in DOTA.

I've been playing the the Dota beta, and I'm going to clear this up:

DOTA 2 contains NO material Blizzard could conceivably claim as their IP. All character bios, names, descriptions, abilities, locations, etc. etc. have been completely rebuilt from the ground up to reflect the IP Icefrog created within his allstars version of DoTA.

Characters based upon Blizzard IP (leoric the skeleton king or the nerubian weaver, for example) have been re-named and redesigned completely.


The issue is brand recognition, not the actual content itself.

Personally, I don't think Blizzard should be suing over fan-created content. That just seems... underhanded.


ALSO Blizzard's claim seems to hinge on the assumption that they own the word "ancients" and that it cannot possibly be taken to mean anything but the characters within their warcraft IP.

 

[Vigormortis]

I've been playing the the Dota beta, and I'm going to clear this up:

DOTA 2 contains NO material Blizzard could conceivably claim as their IP. All character bios, names, descriptions, abilities, locations, etc. etc. have been completely rebuilt from the ground up to reflect the IP Icefrog created within his allstars version of DoTA.

Characters based upon Blizzard IP (leoric the skeleton king or the nerubian weaver, for example) have been re-named and redesigned completely.


The issue is brand recognition, not the actual content itself.

Personally, I don't think Blizzard should be suing over fan-created content. That just seems... underhanded.


ALSO Blizzard's claim seems to hinge on the assumption that they own the word "ancients" and that it cannot possibly be taken to mean anything but the characters within their warcraft IP.

Exactly. That's the thing that's been getting lost in the controversy. This whole thing, despite Blizzards rather obvious underhanded tactics and fear of not being able to bank on the name, is about Blizzards supposed 'fear' of brand confusion. They fear that when people see Dota 2, they'll 'assume' it's a Blizzard product. Ergo, they're implying that Valve is attempting to trademark the name Dota to bank on the brand recognition of Blizzard.

As I've said, though, Blizzard doesn't own Dota, or anything relating to it. Their 'brand recognition' worries are purely implied, baseless, and at best tenuous. They are making the immense assumption that Dota is solely associated with Warcraft and that, if Valve were to trademark the name, Blizzard would suffer 'damages' due to this brand confusion.

Again, it's all implied bullshit. All of it being used to hide their real 'fear'. That of losing their free money maker.

 

[girzwald]

I'm surprised it's taken them this long.

I think Valve are in the wrong this time. DOTA is a Warcraft mod, and has no link to anything Valve has ever originated. If anyone has a claim on the name it's Blizzard.

It is, but it isnt. It was using base WC3 models and mechanics. But had been HEAVILY modified and the idea and concept of the map itself was not blizzards.

 

[girzwald]

snip

But the thing is that Blizzard isn't trying to take control over DotA, they just don't want Valve to have exclusive rights to it, and Icefrog wasn't the original creator so even though he have made it was it is today. I do not feel it give him it sole right to the name either.

To put it simply, Blizzard is trying, and in my eyes failing, to play the "sympathetic to the community" card while they, in fact, would probably be trying to trademark the name themselves if Valve hadn't beaten them to it.

The fact that they first move on it now shows that they didn't feel they should take the trademark from the creators but will only protect it from others getting taking it.

Let Valve make DotA 2, let them call it DOTA 2, just don't give the trademark to make them the only ones that can use the name.

I can all but guarantee you that Blizzard will try to take over the name if they win this case. Of course they aren't laying claim to it with this particular case, but that's only because...well..."one problem at a time". First they keep Valve from trademarking it, then they swoop in and trademark it themselves.

This whole thing is simple to understand. Blizzard, for years, was banking off of the work and success of the modders making Dota. They thought, since it was a Warcraft 3 mod, they could keep profiting off of it without having to actively spend time and money hiring or licensing the property for their own internal use. I.E. They were lazy and complacent.

Then, along comes Valve, who then hires the guy who, arguably, put the most time and effort into the mod. They give him the tools and assets needed to make the game as he truly intended. Thus, Dota 2 is born.

Suddenly, Acti-Blizz realizes it's dropped the ball. They're going to lose one of their 'cash cows'. They had every opportunity to make Dota their own. They could have done more to support it. Helped fund it. Hired the creators. What have you. But they didn't. They were content to just sit back and bask in the influx of cash the modders were freely providing them.

Now, they're sore over this realization. They don't want to lose that money maker. So what do they do? They hastily slap together their own "dota" game, in the form of a Starcraft 2 mod, and then start what I'm sure is going to be a lengthy smear campaign against Valve. Kicked off by this, and let's face it here, frivolous trademarking case.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not defending Valve. They could very easily change the name. And honestly, part of me thinks they should as I believe the name, or rather the acronym, should stay with the community. However, I have to call Blizzard out on this bullshit. There's no altruism in play here. It's all corporate shenanigans.

I don't see how the "blizzard would lose money" argument holds up. How much money do you really think blizzard made off of dota? Id wager not that many people went out and bought a copy of WC3 and TFT because of dota. They weren't making any money off any subs since battlenet was free. Maybe they might have realized they made a mistake (although I don't think so because I always thought dota was an unbalanced piece of crap) in not hiring the guy cause they thought he could have been a creative asset. But them not making money or losing money. Not so much.

 

[Vigormortis]

I don't see how the "blizzard would lose money" argument holds up. How much money do you really think blizzard made off of dota? Id wager not that many people went out and bought a copy of WC3 and TFT because of dota. They weren't making any money off any subs since battlenet was free. Maybe they might have realized they made a mistake (although I don't think so because I always thought dota was an unbalanced piece of crap) in not hiring the guy cause they thought he could have been a creative asset. But them not making money or losing money. Not so much.

Actually, quite a lot of people only bought Warcraft 3 because of DOTA. In fact, I personally know a good number of people that did exactly that.

So yes. Blizzard made money off of DOTA and continues to do so. Simply because people 'had' to buy WC3 to play it.

People still buy Warcraft 3. But I can almost guarantee most of them are doing so so they can play DOTA.

Don't confuse direct profit with associated profit. Just because Blizzard isn't directly taking money for or from DOTA, it doesn't mean they aren't making money from people having to buy WC3 to play it.

All of this means that, with the advent of Dota 2, there's a good chance that a lot of the people still buying or playing Warcraft 3 for DOTA will no longer do so. Which also decreases the likelihood of Blizzard banking on the name again should they make another Warcraft.

Ergo, they will lose money.

 

[Freechoice]

Can you name any single Valve game save for Half Life that wasn't a mod or the original idea of someone else?

snip

Answer my question.

Valve hires the people with the new ideas and gives them the assets to make the best version of their idea that they can.

It's like Team Fortress. The original Team Fortress was created as a Quake mod. It had a somewhat lengthy history as a quake mode before it moved to Half-Life with TFC. Yet, you never heard about id Software getting all (to use an internet vernacular) "butthurt" over Valve trademarking the name Team Fortress. Even though, until then, people associated Team Fortress with a Quake mod.

And do you know why? Because id had no claim to it. They had no rights to the name and, quite frankly, had no reason to bank on it nor fear brand confusion.

The EXACT same thing applies to Blizzard with DOTA. Their case is tenuous at best and, quite frankly, is all but completely baseless. The only reason they're doing this now is because they want to (finally) bank on the MOBA/DOTA trend with their own. (And let's face it, Blizzard DOTA as a Starcraft 2 mod is just a rushed, lazy way of getting something to market to compete with Dota2)

To put it simply, Blizzard is trying, and in my eyes failing, to play the "sympathetic to the community" card while they, in fact, would probably be trying to trademark the name themselves if Valve hadn't beaten them to it.

This whole affair screams of corporate BS to me. What is with the current trend of big-name publishers actively bashing and lambasting Valve? What, are the big boys of the playground afraid of the success of the feisty, little guy? First it's EA laying into them over Origin, now it's Acti-Blizz over the name DOTA.

My argument has nothing to do with Blizzard trying to block the trademark, but with the creative sterility of Valve as a whole. Their only truly original IP is Half-Life. I don't give a shit about Blizzard and them ripping off Warhammer.

What would Blizzard have gained if they had trademarked and taken DotA? Nothing. The game was played on their software and they could not charge money to play an updated version of it. That's it. Do you think Blizzard expects to cash in on SC2 having a version of DotA when there are free to play games like League of Legends or HoN sticking around that people are already familiar with?

The answer is no.

Basically, screw Valve's inability to make anything new or innovative. If they so badly want to support the community, make a subdivision within the company to handle independent projects and make Half Life 3.

Also, big boys? Valve IS a big boy. They make billions with digital distribution.

 

[Atmos Duality]

The HoN master race sits backs and enjoys the chaos. Mwahahahaha.

IceFrog made Dota? Please fuck off. He just maintained it (poorly) and stole idea's from the non-Allstar games. Dude was a hack and still is.

IceFrog is the hack?
*laughs maniacally*

Oho..that's...that's hilarious man.

Right...that's why it's IceFrog, and not Eul, Sithis, Kegsta, Pendragon or Guinsoo (the latter of who are too busy peddling skins for 10 bucks a pop for their taskmasters...no really, LoL is funded and owned by a Chinese company) who was hired by Valve.

If there is anything I can say about Valve it's this: They know talent when they see it. They built their company out of community modders first, not stockholder initiatives mergers or buyouts like any other publisher.

But the fuck do I know? I only played DotA since the original maps before Eul helped create the WoC flavor...back when it was called Aeon of Strife, and on Starcraft.

 

[Bradeck]

Can you name any single Valve game save for Half Life that wasn't a mod or the original idea of someone else?

snip

Answer my question.

Valve hires the people with the new ideas and gives them the assets to make the best version of their idea that they can.

It's like Team Fortress. The original Team Fortress was created as a Quake mod. It had a somewhat lengthy history as a quake mode before it moved to Half-Life with TFC. Yet, you never heard about id Software getting all (to use an internet vernacular) "butthurt" over Valve trademarking the name Team Fortress. Even though, until then, people associated Team Fortress with a Quake mod.

And do you know why? Because id had no claim to it. They had no rights to the name and, quite frankly, had no reason to bank on it nor fear brand confusion.

The EXACT same thing applies to Blizzard with DOTA. Their case is tenuous at best and, quite frankly, is all but completely baseless. The only reason they're doing this now is because they want to (finally) bank on the MOBA/DOTA trend with their own. (And let's face it, Blizzard DOTA as a Starcraft 2 mod is just a rushed, lazy way of getting something to market to compete with Dota2)

To put it simply, Blizzard is trying, and in my eyes failing, to play the "sympathetic to the community" card while they, in fact, would probably be trying to trademark the name themselves if Valve hadn't beaten them to it.

This whole affair screams of corporate BS to me. What is with the current trend of big-name publishers actively bashing and lambasting Valve? What, are the big boys of the playground afraid of the success of the feisty, little guy? First it's EA laying into them over Origin, now it's Acti-Blizz over the name DOTA.

My argument has nothing to do with Blizzard trying to block the trademark, but with the creative sterility of Valve as a whole. Their only truly original IP is Half-Life. I don't give a shit about Blizzard and them ripping off Warhammer.

What would Blizzard have gained if they had trademarked and taken DotA? Nothing. The game was played on their software and they could not charge money to play an updated version of it. That's it. Do you think Blizzard expects to cash in on SC2 having a version of DotA when there are free to play games like League of Legends or HoN sticking around that people are already familiar with?

The answer is no.

Basically, screw Valve's inability to make anything new or innovative. If they so badly want to support the community, make a subdivision within the company to handle independent projects and make Half Life 3.

Also, big boys? Valve IS a big boy. They make billions with digital distribution.

I'm not answering your question, because that's not the point of my statement. My statement is that Blizzard shamelessly rips off other people's ideas, and gets pissed when other people do it do them. I was NOT making a case for Valve, or in any way referencing Valve. I don't care to get into a fanboy pissing match with you, because that's not why I posted.

For you to tell me to justify a position I never took is kinda odd. If I had come out and said Valve is in the right, and they NEVER steal any intellectual property, then you could have me justify it. But instead, I am saying the opposite of Blizz.

Now then, PORTAL. Totally changed the idea of FPS games, and had never been done before. To answer your question.

 

[Lev The Red]

IMO only people who have a claim to the DOTA name are those who made the damn thing. This was a number of people over the years. One of them (IceFrog) is working on DOTA2 at Valve. This pretty much settles this lawsuit. If anything, Valve should be able to sue Blizz for their "Blizzard DOTA" crap, since as far as I know none of the DOTA people are working on it at Blizz. But no, I don't think a company should automatically get full IP ownership over all user-made mods for their games.

This.
just because the mod is played on blizzard's game, doesn't make it their IP. unless of course they bought it from IceFrog and the others, like Valve has done with several community maps and mods for TF2 and L4D1&2.

in my opinion, Valve has more of a right to it than blizzard simply because they are actually making a dota game.

 

[Freechoice]

Now then, PORTAL. Totally changed the idea of FPS games, and had never been done before. To answer your question.

Narbacular Drop [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narbacular_Drop]. Heard of it?

And boohoo, you don't like Blizzard ripping off Warhammer. Brood War and Reign of Chaos were good stories and were fun to play. As far as I know, Blizzard is not filing countersuit so that they can trademark DotA for themselves. If they're not, they stand to gain nothing with Blizzard DotA.

 

[Bradeck]

What is your deal dude? I DON'T CARE THAT ANYONE ELSE IS A COPYCAT. I AM NOT ARGUING THAT. I am simply arguing that Blizzard cannot claim that Valve is hurting their intellectual property, when they have done it SO MUCH to others.

If I club 10,000 baby seals, I can't turn around and bemoan all the other poachers for doing what I just did.

I. Don't. Give. A pickled shit on rye. What. Other. Companies. Do. I am strictly focusing my argument on the duality of Blizzard. Stop coming up with straw man arguments.

I cited Blizzard ripping off Warhammer because they did. Not because I am a fan. I just know they have, because it's OBVIOUS. I do however claim to be a Jim Henson fanboy, because he's a great legend, a great man, and had a genius mind for fantasy films and TV shows. I pointed out The Dark Crystal ripoff because, again, it was obvious.

As has been stated, this is in no way about Blizzard losing their property. This is about money.

Look, PM me, because we shouldn't be arguing this on this thread anyway. It's getting away from the point.