Blizzard Denies Milking StarCraft II

Drunken Jedi

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Aug 15, 2008
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Just for clarification:

All Blizzard is doing is basically announcing two expansion packs. Apart from that, they're only arranging the campaigns a bit differently than they did in sc1. I really don't get what all the big fuss is about.

Also, if you want to keep playing the multiplayer, you pretty much have to buy both expansions. Of course you'll still be able to play without the expansions, but since most people will buy the expansions, you'd be isolating yourself from the main community. Just take a look at how many people play Starcraft without the Broodwar expansion.
 

KSarty

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Aug 5, 2008
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Drunken Jedi said:
Just for clarification:

All Blizzard is doing is basically announcing two expansion packs. Apart from that, they're only arranging the campaigns a bit differently than they did in sc1. I really don't get what all the big fuss is about.

Also, if you want to keep playing the multiplayer, you pretty much have to buy both expansions. Of course you'll still be able to play without the expansions, but since most people will buy the expansions, you'd be isolating yourself from the main community. Just take a look at how many people play Starcraft without the Broodwar expansion.
Yeah they are expansions, but Blizzard has not announced the pricing yet, thats what the fuss is about. If they decide to charge full game price for them, then we are getting hosed.
 

TsunamiWombat

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KSarty said:
Drunken Jedi said:
Just for clarification:

All Blizzard is doing is basically announcing two expansion packs. Apart from that, they're only arranging the campaigns a bit differently than they did in sc1. I really don't get what all the big fuss is about.

Also, if you want to keep playing the multiplayer, you pretty much have to buy both expansions. Of course you'll still be able to play without the expansions, but since most people will buy the expansions, you'd be isolating yourself from the main community. Just take a look at how many people play Starcraft without the Broodwar expansion.
Yeah they are expansions, but Blizzard has not announced the pricing yet, thats what the fuss is about. If they decide to charge full game price for them, then we are getting hosed.
Eh, it'll probably be 30-40 USD. Blizzard said if it FELT like a full price game it would be, but since the two expansions won't be bringing new multiplayer you couldn't get patched for free, no way I can see them charging 50-60 USD.
 

Murmur95

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i am sorry but this is totally the right direction for the game. Having it be able to be spread out and giving more enhancements is a good thing.
 

AceDiamond

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CantFaketheFunk said:
AceDiamond said:
Yes because what I totally said was that I hate capitalism and the idea of profit. I am so glad you're here to do my thinking for me and put words in my text boxes.

Now then what I was saying is that not only are they lying about their motivations but they're being a dick about it. Why not, oh, say, release all 3 versions at the same time? That way people can get the campaign they want AND play multiplayer without having to buy two versions of the same damn game just to satisfy the multiplayer half of the equation as soon as possible.
Have you seen how long it takes them to make a game? :p

Hell, development time was one of the reasons they did this in the first place. It was coming down to them having to make the choice to A.) cut out a huge chunk of what they wanted to put in the game, and essentially release a game that was not up to their standards (which they have a history of simply not doing: see SC Ghost and Warcraft Adventures), or B.) release one massive game but delay it for YEARS. In the end, the Trilogy way sort of answered both of these. They'll be able to get the multiplayer out the door quicker for people who want that, but will also be able to do everything they want in the singleplayer campaign.

I don't think you understand what they're doing here. If you buy *one* of the trilogy games, you will have full multiplayer access. Period. All three races, all the units, in skirmishes and multiplayer. Any updates that come with the other two games will be patched in (you know, like they do these days with Brood War changes anyway).
So in short, exactly what I was saying. If they come out with the Protoss campaign first and you want to play the Terran or Zerg campaign you have to not only wait but you have to buy 2 copies of Starcraft II unless you think you can wait 6-12 months for the version you want just so you can play multiplayer. But obviously nobody will so they'll all buy the first campaign just to get their multiplayer fix.

and yes I do know how long it takes to make a game. On the other hand I have no idea how long it takes to make 3 campaigns with the same engine after you've compeltely smoothed it out, but I bet it takes a lot less time than making a whole game from scratch, especially given how it doesn't take the dev. time of Neverwinter Nights to make a module for Neverwinter Nights.
 

xitel

Assume That I Hate You.
Aug 13, 2008
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Do they expect anyone to believe they're not milking the game? After the way that they've shamelessly milked WoW for years? I'm pretty sure there was a pretty long period of time where they weren't developing anything other than stuff for WoW. So yes, they are milking it, and the overly defensive response just proves that. I don't think they know how to not milk something anymore.
 
Dec 1, 2007
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Nathan Meunier said:
"The fact of the matter is it's absolutely, positively untrue about us trying to stretch it out and milk it. People think that it was a monetary driven decision. I can absolutely, positively tell you, with 100 percent certainty, that that was not part of the conversation," he said.
Amnestic said:
A business wanting to make money?

Perish the fucking thought.
Exactly. My feelings on Blizzard are meh, but I don't like the fact that the CEO took the time out to lie to us.
 

Amnestic

High Priest of Haruhi
Aug 22, 2008
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AceDiamond said:
CantFaketheFunk said:
AceDiamond said:
Yes because what I totally said was that I hate capitalism and the idea of profit. I am so glad you're here to do my thinking for me and put words in my text boxes.

Now then what I was saying is that not only are they lying about their motivations but they're being a dick about it. Why not, oh, say, release all 3 versions at the same time? That way people can get the campaign they want AND play multiplayer without having to buy two versions of the same damn game just to satisfy the multiplayer half of the equation as soon as possible.
Have you seen how long it takes them to make a game? :p

Hell, development time was one of the reasons they did this in the first place. It was coming down to them having to make the choice to A.) cut out a huge chunk of what they wanted to put in the game, and essentially release a game that was not up to their standards (which they have a history of simply not doing: see SC Ghost and Warcraft Adventures), or B.) release one massive game but delay it for YEARS. In the end, the Trilogy way sort of answered both of these. They'll be able to get the multiplayer out the door quicker for people who want that, but will also be able to do everything they want in the singleplayer campaign.

I don't think you understand what they're doing here. If you buy *one* of the trilogy games, you will have full multiplayer access. Period. All three races, all the units, in skirmishes and multiplayer. Any updates that come with the other two games will be patched in (you know, like they do these days with Brood War changes anyway).
So in short, exactly what I was saying. If they come out with the Protoss campaign first and you want to play the Terran or Zerg campaign you have to not only wait but you have to buy 2 copies of Starcraft II unless you think you can wait 6-12 months for the version you want just so you can play multiplayer. But obviously nobody will so they'll all buy the first campaign just to get their multiplayer fix.

and yes I do know how long it takes to make a game. On the other hand I have no idea how long it takes to make 3 campaigns with the same engine after you've compeltely smoothed it out, but I bet it takes a lot less time than making a whole game from scratch, especially given how it doesn't take the dev. time of Neverwinter Nights to make a module for Neverwinter Nights.
So your complaint is that Blizzard are forcing you to buy their games? Do they have a Blizzard Representative holding a gun to your head at the game shop ordering you to purchase all three versions. No? Well if you don't want to pay early you don't bloody well have to, you can just wait. Or you could not, if you so choose. They're not making you do anything, if you choose to buy two or three campaigns that's your decision and your own inability to wait for whichever campaign you want is on your head.

Though why on earth you'd wait is beyond me. As far I as know, aren't the campaigns meant to be a logical story progression? Surely if you choose to sit out and wait then you're going to miss a chunk of the story.

And who's to say that it's all smoothed out? The fact that they're still making balance changes to Broodwar and Frozen Throne shows that just because they've released a game doesn't mean it's smoothed out. Considering you have little-to-no idea of how Blizzard work during their development stage (nor do I) making presumptuous statements like that seems rather silly, really.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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Neosage said:
I suppose, Oh and about Terra I did know that it wasn't GW's idea though i just think its a little coincidental that they are sci-fi similar setting and just HAPPEN to have the same name for the first human planet
TBF, Terra has been used for WAY longer than both GW or Blizzard. I believe that the basic idea came before Rebelstar Raiders back on the Speccy, and Star Frontiers also used it. Possibly even as far back as the 50's B Movies.
 

John Funk

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Dec 20, 2005
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Imitation Saccharin said:
Exactly. My feelings on Blizzard are meh, but I don't like the fact that the CEO took the time out to lie to us.
What makes you so sure Sams is lying?

Of course every business wants to make a profit - at the end of the day, their employees need to feed their families, after all. But that doesn't necessarily mean that every decision they make is financially-motivated.

This is a company that has a track record of refusing to release not one but two games - Warcraft Adventures and StarCraft Ghost - because they weren't going to be good enough. This isn't "It doesn't have sequel potential" a la Brutal Legend; these were games in beloved, extremely popular franchises that could have been complete turds but would still have sold like crazy.

Besides, it isn't like they don't already have a money-printing machine already :p

xitel said:
Do they expect anyone to believe they're not milking the game? After the way that they've shamelessly milked WoW for years? I'm pretty sure there was a pretty long period of time where they weren't developing anything other than stuff for WoW. So yes, they are milking it, and the overly defensive response just proves that. I don't think they know how to not milk something anymore.
Define "milking"? Because since Nov 2004, they've put out two expansions (which you had to buy, yes), plus at least 12-15 major content patches (free other than monthly subscription)... for WoW. During that time period, they've continued to support and patch StarCraft, Warcraft 3 and Diablo 2 (for free).

AND they've been working on SC2 since WC3 Frozen Throne was done (2002/2003), various iterations of Diablo 3 since... well, at least before Blizzard North left to become Flagship, and whatever that "next-gen MMO" product is for two or so years now. So yes, they've been developing plenty beyond WoW :p
 
Dec 1, 2007
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CantFaketheFunk said:
What makes you so sure Sams is lying?
Because for them to not realize splitting up the game three ways would generate gobs more money, and had that as at least a con or pro on some big spreadsheet, means they're stupid or lying to us.
And I don't think they're stupid.

CantFaketheFunk said:
This is a company that has a track record of refusing to release not one but two games - Warcraft Adventures and StarCraft Ghost - because they weren't going to be good enough.
Evidence?

CantFaketheFunk said:
Besides, it isn't like they don't already have a money-printing machine already :p
As Amnestic said, a business makes as much money as possible. You can never have enough.
 

wilsonscrazybed

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Dec 16, 2007
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Seems to me like this is something they never would have done before the merger. Also, the rampant denials that they want Diablo 3 to be an MMO have me on edge as well. Perhaps they are being pressured to look for alternative forms or revenue for their games and this is what they came up with.

Doubtlessly their games will retain the kind of polish we expect from blizzard. I just hope I can afford gaming in a world where they seem to be making games in the price range of affluent teenagers and industry types. Or maybe I am just getting older and can't see myself shelling out 60$ each for 3 copies of Starcraft.
 

Amnestic

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Aug 22, 2008
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Imitation Saccharin said:
CantFaketheFunk said:
Besides, it isn't like they don't already have a money-printing machine already :p
As Amnestic said, a business makes as much money as possible. You can never have enough.
*ahem*

Actually my comment was in sarcastic jest to someone else who seemed to be implying that he was shocked Blizzard wanted anything to do with money, rather than saying that they're out to make as much money as possible. Of course they want to make money, but the best way to do that is to get happy customers who want to keep revisiting their brand and buy their products. Generally that means good quality. Yes, they've split SC2 into three bits but I have little-to-no doubt in my mind that whatever you pay for they will deliver it, be it one game or three.

Call my a Blizzard fanboy if you wish, but I have yet to be disappointed by one of their products and I doubt they're going to start a downhill spiral with SC2. As always, it's possible I'll be proven wrong, I just don't think it's very likely.
 
Dec 1, 2007
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Amnestic said:
Actually my comment was in sarcastic jest to someone else who seemed to be implying that he was shocked Blizzard wanted anything to do with money, rather than saying that they're out to make as much money as possible.
The claim made by the CEO is money did not enter the question. My arguement is that he is lying, as he runs a business and therefore it must have a least entered the discussion.
I cite you only in-so-far as you concur it is the logical assumption that blizzard is in the business of business (i.e.- making mulla).
 

AceDiamond

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Amnestic said:
AceDiamond said:
CantFaketheFunk said:
AceDiamond said:
Yes because what I totally said was that I hate capitalism and the idea of profit. I am so glad you're here to do my thinking for me and put words in my text boxes.

Now then what I was saying is that not only are they lying about their motivations but they're being a dick about it. Why not, oh, say, release all 3 versions at the same time? That way people can get the campaign they want AND play multiplayer without having to buy two versions of the same damn game just to satisfy the multiplayer half of the equation as soon as possible.
Have you seen how long it takes them to make a game? :p

Hell, development time was one of the reasons they did this in the first place. It was coming down to them having to make the choice to A.) cut out a huge chunk of what they wanted to put in the game, and essentially release a game that was not up to their standards (which they have a history of simply not doing: see SC Ghost and Warcraft Adventures), or B.) release one massive game but delay it for YEARS. In the end, the Trilogy way sort of answered both of these. They'll be able to get the multiplayer out the door quicker for people who want that, but will also be able to do everything they want in the singleplayer campaign.

I don't think you understand what they're doing here. If you buy *one* of the trilogy games, you will have full multiplayer access. Period. All three races, all the units, in skirmishes and multiplayer. Any updates that come with the other two games will be patched in (you know, like they do these days with Brood War changes anyway).
So in short, exactly what I was saying. If they come out with the Protoss campaign first and you want to play the Terran or Zerg campaign you have to not only wait but you have to buy 2 copies of Starcraft II unless you think you can wait 6-12 months for the version you want just so you can play multiplayer. But obviously nobody will so they'll all buy the first campaign just to get their multiplayer fix.

and yes I do know how long it takes to make a game. On the other hand I have no idea how long it takes to make 3 campaigns with the same engine after you've compeltely smoothed it out, but I bet it takes a lot less time than making a whole game from scratch, especially given how it doesn't take the dev. time of Neverwinter Nights to make a module for Neverwinter Nights.
So your complaint is that Blizzard are forcing you to buy their games? Do they have a Blizzard Representative holding a gun to your head at the game shop ordering you to purchase all three versions. No? Well if you don't want to pay early you don't bloody well have to, you can just wait. Or you could not, if you so choose. They're not making you do anything, if you choose to buy two or three campaigns that's your decision and your own inability to wait for whichever campaign you want is on your head.

Though why on earth you'd wait is beyond me. As far I as know, aren't the campaigns meant to be a logical story progression? Surely if you choose to sit out and wait then you're going to miss a chunk of the story.

And who's to say that it's all smoothed out? The fact that they're still making balance changes to Broodwar and Frozen Throne shows that just because they've released a game doesn't mean it's smoothed out. Considering you have little-to-no idea of how Blizzard work during their development stage (nor do I) making presumptuous statements like that seems rather silly, really.
Starcraft is to many people the definitive RTS. I never understood why, in fact I'm not even buying Starcraft II, fuck I didn't even play Starcraft I. This isn't about me this is about the people who worship this game like its the infinite power of Christ, and keep playing it many years after its release for, say it with me now, multiplayer

Since every campaign release will include the full multiplayer options anyway, it stands to reason that people will be so eager for more of their Starcraft multiplayer goodness that they'll buy the first race to hit shelves then probably buy the race they actually want to play the campaign for when it comes out later.

And these aren't expansion packs, people, these are full campaigns for each race. Don't tell me that they're suddenly going to change some aspect of the last release with a new one. As far as it sounds they are 3 releases of the same game with extended campaigns. But they know full well the power of the multiplayer and thus they will be getting more money for what is essentially a fragment of a game.

And tell me again why it takes so long to make another campaign. I posit that it in fact does not and therefore such a staggered release is pointless unless...they're trying to milk the franchise
 

John Funk

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Dec 20, 2005
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Imitation Saccharin said:
CantFaketheFunk said:
What makes you so sure Sams is lying?
Because for them to not realize splitting up the game three ways would generate gobs more money, and had that as at least a con or pro on some big spreadsheet, means they're stupid or lying to us.
And I don't think they're stupid.
Of course they realized it. They're not stupid.

But that doesn't mean they based the choice on it. "Okay, so, if we do the trilogy we'll be able to actually do everything we want to do with the campaign, but won't have to delay getting the multiplayer out nor will we need to make gamers wait even longer for the full thing.

As a side result, we'll make more money."

They can have realized they'll make more money and still have it not a factor in the choice.
Imitation Saccharin said:
CantFaketheFunk said:
This is a company that has a track record of refusing to release not one but two games - Warcraft Adventures and StarCraft Ghost - because they weren't going to be good enough.
Evidence?
Er, honestly it's just something I know having followed their games closely over the years. I'm pretty sure WoWWiki has a decent explanation of Warcraft Adventures, at least. So no, I don't have any one specific source, but it's... pretty widely known if you've followed Blizzard.
Imitation Saccharin said:
CantFaketheFunk said:
Besides, it isn't like they don't already have a money-printing machine already :p
As Amnestic said, a business makes as much money as possible. You can never have enough.
Warcraft Adventures was practically complete by the time they canned it - at least, the expensive parts like animation and voice acting had all been finished. Given that it would have probably sold extremely well no matter how good it was, their decision to ultimately not release the title and not recoup expenses? That's pretty significant - and they didn't have Activision's pockets then, either (I'm pretty sure they didn't even have Vivendi to fund them, too.)

But they recognized that keeping their reputation was worth taking that loss.

I've told this story before, but it doesn't stop being significant. :p Before Blizzcon, I was talking with an acquaintance who happened to work at Blizzard over drinks one night, and he told me about how he'd seen one of the Blizz higherups come in to the office he shared and yell at - really chew out - the other person, and they were genuinely upset.... not that they'd be losing money or anything, but honestly furious that Blizzcon attendees weren't going to have the best experience possible. Even after years with the company, he told me, he was still struck by how often *that* was the mandate - the player gets the best experience we can give them - rather than "how can we make the most money?"

Feel free to take me - or him - with a grain of salt, but talking to Blizzard staff from Mike Morhaime on down, it's something that I genuinely and truly believe. Yes, they are a corporation, and yes, their employees do have families to feed. So of course the fact that a decision will be good financially is an awesome bonus. But that isn't necessarily *why* they'd make the decision.

wilsonscrazybed said:
Seems to me like this is something they never would have done before the merger. Also, the rampant denials that they want Diablo 3 to be an MMO have me on edge as well. Perhaps they are being pressured to look for alternative forms or revenue for their games and this is what they came up with.
Well, why wouldn't they deny that they want D3 to be an MMO if they didn't want it to be an MMO? :p They've said time and time again that it won't be subscription based, though whatever form the "monetization" will take is still up in the air. In all likelihood, it'll probably be something like "for 2 bucks a month you don't have to deal with adds on Battle.net" or something along those lines.

AceDiamond said:
Since every campaign release will include the full multiplayer options anyway, it stands to reason that people will be so eager for more of their Starcraft multiplayer goodness that they'll buy the first race to hit shelves then probably buy the race they actually want to play the campaign for when it comes out later.

And these aren't expansion packs, people, these are full campaigns for each race. Don't tell me that they're suddenly going to change some aspect of the last release with a new one. As far as it sounds they are 3 releases of the same game with extended campaigns. But they know full well the power of the multiplayer and thus they will be getting more money for what is essentially a fragment of a game.

And tell me again why it takes so long to make another campaign. I posit that it in fact does not and therefore such a staggered release is pointless unless...they're trying to milk the franchise
In the first Starcraft, if you wanted to play the Zerg or Protoss missions, you had to play through the Terran ones anyway.

They've said that they were always planning on doing one SC2 expansion - this is just one more game, and if the value is an expansion value, it'll be expansion price. If it's a full game value, it'll be a full game price.

They're actually doing some pretty detailed stuff with the Terran campaign (at least from what we've seen), and I wouldn't be surprised at all if they wanted to do similarly detailed - but different - things with the Zerg and Protoss ones. Hell, even if not, there's still scripting, recording, cutscenes, campaign balancing, brand-new campaign units (and corresponding models) to introduce... given how long it USUALLY takes Blizzard to make a game? It doesn't surprise me at all that they're staggering them like this.

The choice was between staggering them, or making players wait a much longer time for all three at once. They opted for the former to let players actually, y'know, play the game they've wanted to play.
 
Dec 1, 2007
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CantFaketheFunk said:
But that doesn't mean they based the choice on it.
The claim is it wasn't even part of the discussion.

CantFaketheFunk said:
They can have realized they'll make more money and still have it not a factor in the choice.
Then they are stupid.

CantFaketheFunk said:
Er, honestly it's just something I know having followed their games closely over the years.
Wikipedia disagrees with your claim on Starcraft Ghost, although the veracity of that source is questionable.

CantFaketheFunk said:
But they recognized that keeping their reputation was worth taking that loss.
Yes, to keep making a profit later that is worth more then the resultantly dampened opinion.

CantFaketheFunk said:
Even after years with the company, he told me, he was still struck by how often *that* was the mandate - the player gets the best experience we can give them - rather than "how can we make the most money?"
I doubt your story, but cannot disprove it except to say I request no more unverified objective statements please.
 

Mean Mother Rucker

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Blizzard has been milking the public for cash since World of Warcraft.
Honestly, this move doesn't surprise me, but it may have weakened the public's trust of Blizzard.
Honestly, THREE parts?
That's going a bit far, even for Blizzard.
 

Frederf

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I've played plenty of RTSs with 2-3-4 races where there were 2-3-4 campaigns, all for the original purchase price.

I understand selling stuff separately but I guarantee you it goes like this:

Sandwhich: $7

or you can but it

Bread: $1.50
Lettuce: $1.00
Meat: $3.00
Cheese $2.50

Oh look the total for the parts is $8.00. WHAT A SHOCK. It's simple psychology that you will sell more product at 3 payments of $20 than one payment of $50. People are stupid and like lower numbers after $ signs.

Take all the prices for all the Starcraft III SKUs and add them up and then look at the total product. Hmm, is this worth $120? (or whatever it will be). That's how you charge more and give less.
 

Elurindel

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Dec 12, 2007
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Neosage said:
Is it me or is the starcraft universe very similar to the 40k one? you know TERRANS (Earth in 40k is called Terra) Zerg= A weaker version of the Tyranids and Protoss= Eldar, but 40k came out first. Though I admit that 40k did pinch some of those ideas from various different things but for Blizzard to copy them again, can't they copy separate ideas?
Where have you been? GW sued Blizzard over this ages ago. The exact outcome differs according to who you hear the story from though. Some say the case didn't hold up, others say they could have destroyed Blizzard even over Warcraft: Orcs and Humans, but they didn't. What we do know is that GW did come first, however, and that they like to sue a lot.