Blizzard is suing hackers

[Arehexes]

I guess its just a difference in opinion, but i believe the single player experience should transition into the multiplayer experience, rather than being 2 different games. Id like some aspect of single player to integrate into the multiplayer so that the game as a whole feels more complete.

I disagree. I believe they should be kept separate. I do not want to be forced online when playing a single player game.

Ok, if you just wanna call each other names i can abide. But to me hackers are just people selling tampered boxing gloves, which cause your opponent to catch on fire, explode and die when hit.

I like gaming too but it isn't life and death.

Yes, strategy guides can help a player and give him an advantage over other players without the guides, but the kind of knowledge that world class players have can only come from experience and experimentation, not from reading guides. Now, hacking to enable godmode will give you an advantage over ANYONE, without requiring any extra work or training by the user. Guides make you better through knowledge, which can be substituted with experience and free research, hacks make you better by rewriting code, which cannot be substituted by anything free, huge difference.

So using guides for my 360 games has affected my gamerscore. Does that make me as bad as those people who used a trainer and got achievements in SC2?

The point is that achievement were pushed on all players without choice (unless you wanna play as a "guest" offline but most people would see that as a downgrade) and an advantage is still an advantage be it from a book, a website or a trainer.

And by the way, the hacks allow people to avoid cheating regulation in online play, what do you think was going to stop them from running rampant on the multiplayer?

What stops me from using my Action Replay for Mario Kart DS? Most people know that cheating in an multiplayer game is pointless.

If Blizzard can detect this trainer running, then there should be no one using it online. They should be blocked from online multiplayer if the trainer is running. In that event, no one IS ruining the mp.

The said part is AR's are legal in the US, and cheating in DS games aren't uncommon. It's a nasty problem, but when SINGLE PLAYER GAMES can't be hacked for the fun of it (and yes hackers do FREAKING DO THIS FOR FUN) it's a bad thing for modders.

It's bad for everyone when you can't mod a single player game. That some people cheat on the DS online though isn't call to ban cheat devices, that would be ridiculous but that is similar to what we are seeing with Blizzard.

I'm a programmer in training (college baby whoooo lol), and I heard how Epic's job requirement is that you need to make like 3 or 5 mods with their engine before they even talk to you (if that's true or not is another story). But I enjoy modding games, it's what gives games replay valve, if that was gone I would be depressed.

 

[hctib_elttil]

they did something thats illegal
valve punish players who abuse there games also
the only reason is because its blizzard + ball and chain

 

[Krion_Vark]

I think that saying these particular cheats "Destroy the SC2 experience" is a bit melodramatic, but otherwise, I don't see any problem with this lawsuit. Serves 'em right.

It can in a way since the Story Line is usually meant to teach people how to play and if you use things like Trainers and such it doesn't really teach you how to play. But playing online gets you better at teh game than playing through the story since the computer usually does things in a certain pattern while humans do not.

 

[Snotnarok]

It's less about suing them and more about getting the message out that they dont' want people making hacks for a game that's popular with tournaments.

Though I somehow doubt they'll really gain any ground with suing.

 

[Romidude]

Well, I don't know how this hacking was done, but if they fucked about server-side, it's actually illegal.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Don't be fooled whatever you now is as Blizzard is actually Activision.
Just look back when Activision bought them and when odd stories around Blizzard started to turn up.
People may be prosecuted under the Blizzard name, but it is the Activision "brain" department that comes up with all these slimy ideas.

 

[Spencer Petersen]

Its the lesser of two evils, either allow hackers to run rampant on your game or take a hard stance with them, and I think this is the better option. I'd rather a couple greedy fucks lose their game and right to illegally alter a multiplayer system they have to ruin for all of us, than let the entire multiplayer experience turn into a cesspool of hackers because the developers refused to take any action.

Yeah cause suing people is the ONLY way to ensure that the multiplayer experience isn't ruined.

Here's what we've learned. If you tie single player to multiplayer (in even the smallest of ways) you can maintain complete control over your game and gamers will support you.

The future is looking bright where true single player gameplay all but disappears and is replaced by "always online" single player.

Why do you seem so keen on jumping to the aid of people who honestly just care about their achievement points and online prestige? Actual multiplayer hacks do exist and are being produced by companies like this with the sole intent of fucking everyone who plays this game. I'm sorry if I don't support people whose sole intent is to invalidate any work I or anyone put into the harder achievements for their own self serving intent. Not to mention there is no need for these hacks in a single player environment anyway due to there being cheat codes already embedded in the game.
You also keep making the point of single-player online. My answer, play in offline mode, simple, effective, and solves all your problems, now stop trying to ruin it for everyone else. And if you plan on quoting this I want you to give a definitive answer on why offline single player doesn't work for you.

Offline single player games are going to be gone with PC games, look at Assassin Creed II, if you can't log into the Ubisoft server you can't play it AT ALL. And it's Single Player online ONLY so yeah. If companies start attaching "leader boards" to single player games (which some single player RPGs do now), they can claim the same thing Blizzard is doing. Now if I wanted to cheat in my copy of Tales of Vesperia for the fun of it should I be banned because it keeps the score on the leader boards and "ruins the online experience of the other players"(which I don't even want to be a part of). Think about it, single player for everything but the leader boards so it still has a "online" component, which Namco could use to ban cheaters.

Did I miss some big announcement saying that Blizzard was planning to axe offline singleplayer? Or are people just pulling conspiracies out of thin air?

And yes I agree that Ubisoft's DRM policy is the embodiment of Satan, but in my experience Blizzard is a bit more rational than them, so I doubt Heart of the Swarm or Legacy of the Void are going to have single player servers. If they did I would be pissed, but until then I'm going to keep calm about this.

After it's done is a terrible time to object but if you want to wait till then, we'll be talking about this in a year or two.

We need to stop EA now before they release their virus to turn our computers to Decepticons.
After its done will be a terrible time to object, but if you want to wait well be talking about this in a year or two.

We all know the signs are pointing to it.

(See? I can claim to see the future too)

Well EA was going to make mass effect online only but didn't because people complained about how some can't be online all the time.

And we all know, removing features is better than adding them!

More DRM is not a feature that helps gamers, it is a restriction.

Digital Restrictions Management is what DRM really stands for. Maybe one day that will be clear to you.

I thought you were saying they wanted to add an online feature to Mass Effect, which I would support, but they were wanting to add a Ubisoft-style single player server system?! That's just shit, EA just dropped a point for even thinking about that. Abusive DRM is bad, I agree, but if I'm going to be playing against other people in what is supposed to be a fair and balanced environment I'd rather take the one that stops hackers than the one who lets them run rampant.

No the mass effect 1 game would have a DRM feature were you have to be online to play it and if your not it would not work (just like AS2). But people in the military complained about how they couldn't be online to play when they are on the field. Which like you said is abusive DRM. But let me ask this from gamer to gamer, if you play a RPG (Tales of Verperia is my example) with no multiplayer (outside of DLC which is just to give you money and items and levels, and local in battle co-op). And you wanted to hack just so you can beat up every boss who gave you nightmares with petty revenge (which is fun, I'll never forget making the Ultima Weapon boss in FF6 my *****). And it uploaded your score to the leaderboard (which it does have) should you be banned for hacking even though you didn't do it for scores or achievements? The problem we are trying to say is, that single player games are being integrated with some weird online gimmick that isn't needed, just so you have to follow their rules to the tee or your banned. But that's not all, a few games have had their start from mods, like counter strike and team fortress (both were mods of other games). And Glaboo who made Game Gennie was even sued by nintendo for the same thing this is about here. And Glaboo won.

But you can cheat without any trainers or hacks, there are tons of coded in cheats which give you tons of new toys. But activating them disables achievements (which is just another form of online leader-board) so that you are never at risk. There should be no need for trainers and hack and such and even if you wanted to cheat in a way not previously conceived by the developers you could code the hack to disable achievements or use the hacks offline. But that not what these hackers are doing. They are doing it intentionally to dupe the system. This isn't about a modding community or trying to have more fun with the game. These are people fully aware that they are doing something wrong and intentionally code the trainer to give them extra achievements and prestige in multiplayer. There is no way that the score you got from your cheating session will get uploaded unless you intentionally hack the game to do so.

And SC2 has a massive modding community. Tons of custom maps are being made and they use all sorts of new multiplayer methods, and the best are being featured by Blizzard. An old WC3 mod is now going to be released as a full game by Valve eventually and we may see some SC2 mods gain popularity. And these custom games feature tons of cheats and the like (although facing a godmode opponent isn't very fun) and are fully supported by Blizzard. The modding community isn't really at risk here, its just people trying to hack it for their own personal greed.

 

[Tanis]

As long as the cheats can't be used for online battles, I don't see what the big deal is.

 

[Boaan]

Garak73, I understand that your current point stands upon the requirement of being connected to the internet at all times and i agree that it is a draconian form of DRM. But what this lawsuit is about is completely different. The hackers accused here are not the people that were banned for cheating in singleplayer. This lawsuit is unrelated to that. They were selling hacks to gain unfair advantages in multiplayer. I know you already know this but you somehow keep mentioning singleplayer.

This is not about modding either. The Starcraft 2 editor is extremely powerful, lets you do pretty much anything you could want when creating a new game, importing self-made models and completely altering the look and feel of the game. I should know, I'm working on one. This is perfectly legal, you can make multiplayer mods with the editor that don't affect anyone in a negative way.

You also mentioned that playing as a guest feels like a downgrade. Key word, FEELS! It is not if you don't care about achievements. You don't want gamerscore, don't go online to hack around. Nothing except that now you don't have an account name in the top right corner has changed. And let's just stick to Starcraft 2 for now, not future games, that is a discussion for a different thread where I agree that it is justified.

Furthermore, I believe the plan for the battle.net gamerscore is to allow visual purchases in future games with the points you earn through achievements in Starcraft 2, Diablo 3, etc. Cheating to get those may not be as bland as originally thought. Also, they did not go for the hackers that did not sell the software. Those, they just banned. And we're talking exclusively about software to exploit the game, not mods. I already explained about those above.

Hope this clears a few things up. Please don't continue to make a case about what the future may hold when the core discussion is about the current situation.

 

[HandsomeJack]

I dissagree with your notion that there is something wrong with Blizzard doing this.
1) They are protecting the online experience for the vast majority of users.
2) They are fully within thier rights to protect thier product.
3) There is a disclaimer you must accept before playing the game outlining what you can and cannot do with the game...so these people, in effect, said "yes, I will follow the rules" as they were breaking them...cant really feel sorry for em.

In respons to Arehexes' comment about Nintendo and the Game Genie and certain console games, there is a big difference between hacking single player and hacking multiplayer online. One affects only you, the other affects other players whether they cheat or not. To use a metaphore, it is the difference between masturbation and rape: Both are deviations of the basic principle, but in one you only screw with yourself, the other is screwing someone else... I dont know of many cases of masturbation that go to court, but I do know rape tends to. Refer back to "1)"


I just know that tortured metaphore is going to the the quote everyone takes from my post, but what the hell. Hopefully the point wont be lost at least.

 

[Rae22]

Whats a real slap in all the "anti hacker" people's faces is that the original Starcraft was made in part by a hacked, reverse engineered WC2 editor lol.

 

[CheckD3]

Since when has Blizzard been a generous fountain of smiles and sunshines? They're drowning in their subscription fee money

While it sucks for those guys, they deserved it technically. They warn you at the beggingn over pretty much everything that any unauthorized use is illegal, and if you read the terms and conditions, I'm sure that it says that in there (I don't read them, I know well enough not to do anything illegal)

It may suck and you may think "poor people", but they brought it upon themselves, why should I be upset because they got caught and are paying for what they did wrong?

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

I don't care. Hackers get what they deserve.

Buy the game? You got the CD, the box it came in, and any information on said CD. The moment you rewrite and tamper with the coding and plan to sell/distribute the hacked coding, you are violating Blizzard's IP. Therefore you get busted.

Yup, you said it best

Yeah, I'm with Blizz here.

 

[thahat]

this, i find quite justified.
what i DONT find justified though, is that people who hack their singleplayer account, also get the hammer from blizzard. i mean seriously? get a grip blizzard.

The results from single player missions effect the multi player in some way, so by cheating on one you cheating on the other.

On topic. Good! I hope next they go after pirates. Maybe they can set a standard for other devs to follow.

yes, that is the blizzard propaganda, yes.
WHO CARES!, it doesnt have any game influences past an avatar. or some other gimmicky skins.
and its not like its a large scale thing.. XD

 

[gellert1984]

I don't care. Hackers get what they deserve.

Buy the game? You got the CD, the box it came in, and any information on said CD. The moment you rewrite and tamper with the coding and plan to sell/distribute the hacked coding, you are violating Blizzard's IP. Therefore you get busted.

Worse if you attempt to hack THEIR servers. The servers are Blizzard's property and hacking them, be it with unwarranted mods/cheats/hacks, you are basically breaking and entering into Blizzard's space.

So what about 3rd party mods and maps?

After all thats just tampering with code right? so should Bethesda sue the guys that made there games so popular?

Fine cheating in an online PvP game = Ban. Banning people who cheat against bots seems stupid IMO, suing the enablers seems just... I don't know, words cannot express.

Anyone remember when games had cheats built in?

 

[Pendragon9]

The problem is they were SELLING hacks to be used online.

No excuse people. NONE.

If you wanna cheat in single player, you can use cheats built in. They disable achievements, but you get your hollow victory. If you wanna make a custom map (basically modding) the editor has it all there for you.

If you wanna cheat online, you get no sympathy from me.

Ok so the sticking point here seems to be SELLING. So once again I ask a genuine question (no rants about strat guides please).

Is it also illegal to SELL an unauthorized strat guide?

Also, the trainer was for single player use, was it not?

WHY do you need it for single player? What can a trainer do that the editor + built in Blizzard cheats can't?

Also, these cheaters are lying. They were gonna use it for multiplayer soon enough. They just don't wanna admit Blizzard caught them in the act.

By the way, yes, it should be illegal to sell unathorized strat guides. If you were to GIVE them away though, then that's fine. But if someone works hard to make a guide and they go through the trouble of making it official, then they deserve a cut of profit.

Are you serious?

You honestly don't see the benefit of using unauthorized cheat codes instead of authorized ones? I can't speak for this trainer but I can tell you that the Game Genie always allowed you to do more than any ingame cheat code. I don't see why this would be any different.

Those cheaters are lying? Holy shit, maybe you should market this ability to tell if someone is lying, even when you aren't in the same room with them. Ya know, I have no interest in online play but sometimes I use a cheat device. Am I lying?

Should it really be illegal to sell unauthorized strat guides? You just don't like choice much do you? Use only approved cheats, only approved guides, do you also only use approved (first party) parts in your car? How about controllers, ever used a non first party controller?

The reason I dislike Game Genie, third party controllers and unofficial strat guides is because you have to pay them, and they don't even give you the same quality as the official stuff.

I've been ripped off alot, and i feel these people who make such inferior quality garbage get no sympathy from me when they're eventually sued for making such blatant knockoffs.

And I'm sorry, but you shouldn't be using ANY third party software for Starcraft 2. There's no excuse. If you wanna hack and mod a game, there are a hundred others out there. Stop trying to force every game to fit your standards.

That's just what I feel anyway.

Also, to those people saying you should be able to cheat in single player, then that sounds just pathetic. You're only saying that because yyou want achievements. Well, tough luck. You have to get them the same way everyone else did, by actually playing the game.

 

[Gindil]

So you hate Blizz for actually doing a good thing and preventing people from hacking and ruining the game?

Would you hate the president if he stopped a nuclear missile from hitting your house?

Bad strawman.

The point isn't about Blizzard preventing hacking (which is impossible). Rather, it's about this supposed "inducement" they're going for on the hacker's part as well as the craziness of suing people INTERNATIONALLY.

I guess if you really want to compare, it's just like the Federal watchlist [http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/10/fbi-tracking-device/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:%20wired27b%20(Blog%20-%2027B%20Stroke%206%20(Threat%20Level))]

 

[Gindil]

The reason I dislike Game Genie, third party controllers and unofficial strat guides is because you have to pay them, and they don't even give you the same quality as the official stuff.

I've been ripped off alot, and i feel these people who make such inferior quality garbage get no sympathy from me when they're eventually sued for making such blatant knockoffs.

And I'm sorry, but you shouldn't be using ANY third party software for Starcraft 2. There's no excuse. If you wanna hack and mod a game, there are a hundred others out there. Stop trying to force every game to fit your standards.

That's just what I feel anyway.

Also, to those people saying you should be able to cheat in single player, then that sounds just pathetic. You're only saying that because yyou want achievements. Well, tough luck. You have to get them the same way everyone else did, by actually playing the game.

Great, but the view here is that the game should be enjoyed how I want to, not how Blizzard wants me to. In the end it entirely defeats the purpose of something for MY entertainment can't be enjoyed because some third party is inhibiting that.

Unfortunately, that is a HUGE leap in logic however.

Because you feel ripped off from Game Genies and such, you want to stop others from doing things in the single player campaigns?

It's almost as if you're saying you want to go over to a player's house and physically stop them from ever using third party peripherals of any sort. Good luck with that.

 

[ESCAPIST DELETE THIS ACCOUNT]

Ohh mods and hackers touchy subject it seems.

 

[John the Gamer]

I'm OK with making trainers or mods, but hacking the game and asking money for it is a few steps too far. They went to far and got burned. serves them right.