Blizzard Kills Patron Warrior With Hearthstone Card Nerf
- Thread starter Steven Bogos
- Start date
Cartographer said:
There isn't any multiplying beasts. And hunters don't have a card like frothing. So there is no chance of a hunter OTK with a rhino from an empty board. Also a turn 5 hp is not that difficult to deal with. Almost every 5 drop has either 5 attack or is going to counter the effect with taunt or healing anyways.
Except that introducing more 4-drops that are equally powerful would be a HUGE surge of power creep that would render all previous 4-drops (and probably all 5 drops for that matter) utterly worthless. Not gonna say that Shredder necessarily needs to be nerfed, as there are other ways to make it less good (more playable 3/5s, more 2 drops with negative deathrattle or in-play effects), but making more cards that are equally powerful as it would be a TERRIBLE direction to go.Steven Bogos said:
To be honest, I saw the nerf and though "What the fuck, that wrecks the card", but then I read their reasoning. And he's right. Having to make sure all 3 attack minions from now on aren't ruined because of a free charge effect is actually going to prevent future fun cards from existing. The change of effect makes sense.
That said, they knew they were obliterating the card. They could have at least made it a 3/3 minion to compensate for this.
That said, they knew they were obliterating the card. They could have at least made it a 3/3 minion to compensate for this.
Same. Don't you just love it when people make assumptions about how you consume your news?anthony87 said:
OT: Maybe this will seem a bit harsh, but good. Anything that kills meta decks is good in my eyes; they're the absolute most boring things to ever play against and I don't understand the fun in building some deck somebody else designed.
Sad that it looks like the Commander will be completely useless now. I'll probably have to take it out of my own Warrior deck and find something else to take that spot, but if it means I have one less stupid repetitive deck to worry about playing against, I'm happy.
If people couldn't tell, I don't give a single toss about the competitive aspects of Hearthstone.
I really don't know, Like I'm the BIGGEST advocate of Blizzard games, but I guess too many of the Escapist article writers play the game.gigastar said:
I just don't enjoy watching hearthstone. Like I love watching and listening to lets plays but honestly it's the one type of game that honestly frustrates me to watch.
How to fix Warsong Commander/Grim Patron.
- By Mangod.
Step 1: Change Warsong Commander to: Whenever you play a Minion from your hand with 3 or less Attack, give it Charge.
Step 2: Grim Patron clones no longer gain Charge, because they're not played from your hand.
Step 3: Profit!
- By Mangod.
Step 1: Change Warsong Commander to: Whenever you play a Minion from your hand with 3 or less Attack, give it Charge.
Step 2: Grim Patron clones no longer gain Charge, because they're not played from your hand.
Step 3: Profit!
Yes, this would seem a much more sensible change. There are already cards that work in exactly that way, only triggering when you explicitly play a card and not from hero powers or other on-board effects (Hobgoblin, for example). It seems very odd that Blizzard would effectively remove one of the original cards from the game instead of just fixing the new card that is the actual problem. At the very least they should have either buffed its stats or lowered its cost to make it actually playable.Mangod said:
Yep, the only "multiplying" beast is the Savannah Highmane (Haunted Creeper releases generic minions), but you need a coin to summon that the same turn and you have to make it die to recieve the two 2/2 Hyenas. Kinda handy, but a far from impressive combo.squid5580 said:
Anyway, I wonder why they didn't change Warsong Commander to something like "Whenever you summon a minion with 2 or less Attack, give it Charge." It would have preserved some of the older tactics (Frothing Berserker, Harvest Golem) while eliminating the Patron problem.
Or, you know, this:
Mangod said:
You know, Warsong Commander *used* to be like that. I have no idea why Blizz changed it, except to actually *create* patron warrior. They "fixed" it on the Blackrock launch, almost as if they wanted something like Patron warrior to come in and be very strong. As if they were trying to get people to buy the expansion /tinfoil hat.Mangod said:
Patch 2.4.0.8311 (2015-03-31): Bug fix: "Will now [correctly] give charge to minions summoned by other minions?charge forward!"
http://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Warsong_Commander
But anyway, even if it was just minions with 2 or less attack, it'd still kill weaken a frothing berserker build significantly because one of the best ways to build it up was with patron trading and double whirlwind with a bunch of stuff on the board.
Or if it was "once a minion's attack goes over 3, they lose charge" kind of like how Southsea deckhand will lose charge if you lose your weapon.
Regardless, those are sort of roundabout changes, and the main thing I'd do would be to change it back to how it was before Blackrock mountain, where it only affects minions played from your hand (precisely what you suggest).
The card is going to be completely unplayable after this change, so they might as well just remove it from the game.
I'd rather they replace it with something else, like build a card around Second Wind for Control Warrior or maybe Death Wish for a rush-burst warrior.
I get why they needed the nerf, but its disappointed they did it by completely trashing a card. Granted that's been Blizzard's balancing MO for Hearthstone but the dumpster full of bad cards is getting a bit full. From Brode's video, they know that its a bad card now but they promise to make better ones in future expansions. Have they ever stated why they don't look at cards no one uses and make them more playable?
This would make a lot of sense, but as explained in the video by the dev, they were more concerned with the fact that it?s a basic card that is part of the new player experience, than it being in any way good. He also said that they were unhappy with a card that had both a condition and a trigger being part of that experience so having two conditions and a trigger is likely out.Mangod said:
Go and watch Ben Brode's video explaining the decision; the issue Blizz has with Warsong Commander is with cards granting charge, not cards summoning more minions (either as a deathrattle or due to taking damage).squid5580 said:
Tundra Rhino can be played for 1 with call pet so you have up to 10 mana maximum to play with.
I can easily see 21 damage in a turn with the right combo, though that requires an exact set of cards.
(24 in fact if you have 2x Elven archer and Ghaz'rilla in hand, and against a hunter with Explosive trap that's 48 damage to face, though hunters deserve it.)
Get Emperor out with the right cards in hand and it just gets higher and higher, exceeding Patron levels, just requiring more luck.
Actually yes, in a response to one of Kripp's videos Ben Brode explained why they didn't just buff bad cards.irontwinkie said:
So by "nerf" they mean "We are killing this card completely" ok, I'm not a Hearthstone player so I'm not sure how big of a problem this was, but this "nerf" is completely overkill, the least they could do is give it a flat +1 +1 buff to make it a decent minion
I agree that Patron needed a nerf, I disagree with how it was applied.
Giving underpowered creatures charge creates a fun mechanic making the creature dangerous even though it's only a 2/3. Making sure it only applies to creatures with 3 or less attack (even after buffs) that are played directly from your HAND is the solution.
Otherwise it's now a Magma Rager.
Giving underpowered creatures charge creates a fun mechanic making the creature dangerous even though it's only a 2/3. Making sure it only applies to creatures with 3 or less attack (even after buffs) that are played directly from your HAND is the solution.
Otherwise it's now a Magma Rager.
You're clearly not familiar with how Blizzard handles their games, are you? Their approach to balance is akin to a regular person trying to fly a plane ie overcompensation after overcompensation.ron1n said:
I'm not entirely sure about that, but I can't deny that when Blizzard balances their games, they don't do it in half measures. I think they'd be better served with making small adjustments more frequently instead of letting Patron Warrior fester for six months before killing the deck outright.LordLundar said:
There is precedent to this, after all. Tinkmaster Overspark was the first; making his battlecry choose a random target ruined that card, and now no one plays him. Same goes for Starving Buzzard; that card went from a 2/1 for 2 mana to a FIVE MANA 3/2. Combine that with the Unleash the Hounds nerf, and a combo that used to cost 4 mana now costs 8. The funny thing is that UtH gained 1 mana but still sees play. The only time I see Starving Buzzard is when I'm practicing against the AI.
I don't agree that Blizzard needed to kill the deck; Warrior doesn't have a particularly good high-end deck that doesn't cost 10k dust. Wallet Warrior with 6-7 legendaries and tons of Epics is the only high-end Warrior deck now.
Eh, Bear Trap and Lock and Load are nice, but I'd still rather have Freezing because if you need to get hit to get a card out with Hunter, you fucked up with deck building or drew the worst hand imaginable twice in a row(not to say that is' a bad card, but you're essentially playing Warlock at that point). And L&L is a lategame card to get any amount of value out of it with most Hunter decks, and Hunter doesn't really have any spells that are worth sticking in unless you build around board control. And if you're doing that, then it's either a waste of a card because you cleared the board earlier and didn't have the mana to use L&L, or you don't need the card draw all that badly because you can shoot down whatever's thrown out on the board.The Wykydtron said:
Well...yeah, but you're giving up one or two card slots that only really work with beast hunter decks(and by work I mean have a chance of not being just a two mana card trader), meaning that you will have negligible board clear, a Ghaz that is alot harder to obtain than Grim Patrons, elven archers being ok, but suboptimal if you're going to take the risk of running call pet, and explosive trap only triggers on their turn...your play requires an exact set of cards in an exact order in a perfect environment. Mage can just hit you in the face on turn eight for 48 with Antonidas and Emperor, which may as well be the same effect as charge for Mages. Nothing you can do to avoid it other than kill both quickly, which isn't easy against a class who is based around board control.Cartographer said: