Blizzard "Objects" to Playing Overwatch with a Mouse and Keyboard on Console

[Elijin]

I have a question:

To those who are arguing M+KB are such a level beyond standard controller input. Does it not then create a situation where, as the M+KB setups are not standard/shipped, but a paid accessory, you are directly condoning pay to win. In a very literal sense?

You brought shitty sandals to play football.

I went out and bought cleats.

I mopped the floor with you; Pay 2 win!

Except if I brought shitty sandals, I wouldn't be allowed on the field. I would be barred for not having the equipment required for entry. So the analogy doesn't fit.

In fact, cross platform play would have to be enabled for your point to even be in the realm of possibility, because then you could argue "By buying the console which comes with a controller, instead of the PC which came with the mouse, you handicapped yourself." Because in reality, the consoles can only play with each, and all come with a controller. The additional periphial is an additional cost. If that additional cost brings a tangible advantage of a huge degree which isn't attainable without paying, its pay to win, isn't it?

 

[MHR]

k, fine, it is. You're not really paying to the game developers directly, but that's not important.

I never said I was in favor of KB+M being used on console. In fact, if something can be done about it, I wish Blizz the best. I just think it's funny. The way most console players see it, is that controllers are the same or better than KB+M for shooters. If it's all the same, then KB+M should be fair game to them. I wouldn't cry too many tears for them, let them get stomped in their hubris.

 

[Wrex Brogan]

Sounds like the Console players need to Git Gud. Good luck to Blizz getting Sony and Microsoft to do that crap as well - one option fucks over disabled people who can't use controllers (and also opens them up to all the hellfire people using KB + M would sling at them) while the other one would make them put in an exception not covered by their own brand just so everyone can aim slightly better than usual. Unless this deal comes with a sizable bag of money attached I feel they're a little 'shit out of luck'.

Also, does it really matter if someone is using KB + M during casual play? Competitive, maybe, although personally I'd chalk that up as the same kind of benefit as everyone in the crew having functioning voice coms. I just... can't really see what the big deal is about it, outside people maybe accusing others of being 'KBM players' as opposed to the standard 'Hacker' accusations whenever you kill someone.

 

[Lightspeaker]

I have a question:

To those who are arguing M+KB are such a level beyond standard controller input. Does it not then create a situation where, as the M+KB setups are not standard/shipped, but a paid accessory, you are directly condoning pay to win. In a very literal sense?

"Pay to win" is generally only used to refer to transactions relevant to the software itself, because the term is an accusation generally leveled AT that software. Because those are things that the developer has direct control over. Not to hardware issues, the responsibility of which as far as I am concerned rests entirely on the player and is nothing to do with the developer.

If I play Elite Dangerous with a Keyboard + Mouse rather than a HOTAS and I get destroyed is that pay to win? Literally, yes. In practice however its not the developer's fault that I'm using KB+M.

To use a more explicit comparison: if I'm playing CSGO on a terrible PC and am getting 30FPS or less I am very likely going to get destroyed by an equally skilled player running at 60FPS. Or if my ping is over 300 and my opponent's is less than 50 then equally I'm very likely to get destroyed. But the fact that my opponent has a better PC or is paying for a better internet connection doesn't make CSGO (as a game) pay to win.

Technically EVERY game is pay to win if you want to make this argument. Someone with a better screen setup, a better sound setup, a better system, a more comfortable chair to sit in, etc etc. Where does the pay to win end if we start including things unrelated to the actual software?


Your argument would have more merit if Overwatch came with a special controller that made it way easier to play but the game was also sold without the controller at a cheaper price. But it doesn't. Blizzard itself is disconnected from the hardware setups of its players in this case which makes Overwatch not a pay to win game.

 

[vallorn]

MUAHAHAA PCMR!

Then again, it seems up is down and good is bad,
what with PC Gamers (casuals) starting to prefer controllers on PC's and console players using KB/M!!

Some game genres like fighting games and third person action games translate better to controller inputs than KB+M. Some developers also don't port properly and leave the controller icons in every instruction rather than referring to the keyboard key that is being used. The Dark Souls games, for instance, have both issues since the entire game is set up with a controller interface and playing with a mouse makes the camera a nightmarish horror to work with at times.

 

[Elijin]

"Pay to win" is generally only used to refer to transactions relevant to the software itself, because the term is an accusation generally leveled AT that software. Because those are things that the developer has direct control over. Not to hardware issues, the responsibility of which as far as I am concerned rests entirely on the player and is nothing to do with the developer.

If I play Elite Dangerous with a Keyboard + Mouse rather than a HOTAS and I get destroyed is that pay to win? Literally, yes. In practice however its not the developer's fault that I'm using KB+M.

To use a more explicit comparison: if I'm playing CSGO on a terrible PC and am getting 30FPS or less I am very likely going to get destroyed by an equally skilled player running at 60FPS. Or if my ping is over 300 and my opponent's is less than 50 then equally I'm very likely to get destroyed. But the fact that my opponent has a better PC or is paying for a better internet connection doesn't make CSGO (as a game) pay to win.

Technically EVERY game is pay to win if you want to make this argument. Someone with a better screen setup, a better sound setup, a better system, a more comfortable chair to sit in, etc etc. Where does the pay to win end if we start including things unrelated to the actual software?


Your argument would have more merit if Overwatch came with a special controller that made it way easier to play but the game was also sold without the controller at a cheaper price. But it doesn't. Blizzard itself is disconnected from the hardware setups of its players in this case which makes Overwatch not a pay to win game.

Consoles exist specifically to avoid differing hardware issues, so no, it doesn't dismiss it.

Quality of internet is only money=quality if you live in a major American city. Otherwise its luck of birth/location. I know I personally pay the most for internet within my gaming group, but have the worst of the connections. That's not uncommon.

The fact this entire topic exists confirms the developer sees it as pay to win.

 

[Vendor-Lazarus]

MUAHAHAA PCMR!

Then again, it seems up is down and good is bad,
what with PC Gamers (casuals) starting to prefer controllers on PC's and console players using KB/M!!

Some game genres like fighting games and third person action games translate better to controller inputs than KB+M. Some developers also don't port properly and leave the controller icons in every instruction rather than referring to the keyboard key that is being used. The Dark Souls games, for instance, have both issues since the entire game is set up with a controller interface and playing with a mouse makes the camera a nightmarish horror to work with at times.

I agree with everything you said, except for third person action games.
Like porting it can be done better, but for the most part it's just a hack-job from developers.
(Giving more options than just over-the-shoulder cams would also make TPP games better..)

It's ultimately up to gamers to offer critique and refrain from enabling bad practices.

 

[vallorn]

MUAHAHAA PCMR!

Then again, it seems up is down and good is bad,
what with PC Gamers (casuals) starting to prefer controllers on PC's and console players using KB/M!!

Some game genres like fighting games and third person action games translate better to controller inputs than KB+M. Some developers also don't port properly and leave the controller icons in every instruction rather than referring to the keyboard key that is being used. The Dark Souls games, for instance, have both issues since the entire game is set up with a controller interface and playing with a mouse makes the camera a nightmarish horror to work with at times.

I agree with everything you said, except for third person action games.
Like porting it can be done better, but for the most part it's just a hack-job from developers.
(Giving more options than just over-the-shoulder cams would also make TPP games better..)

It's ultimately up to gamers to offer critique and refrain from enabling bad practices.

It's not always just a hackjob. Dark Souls 1 is an example of it being inexperience with the platform instead of it being a rush job. People begged From Software for a PC port and they outright said "You want this so we're going to do it, but we've never worked with PC before so the quality is likely going to suffer". And then, once the poor port of DS1 came out, they got better and better at porting. In my opinion, controller problems aside, Dark Souls 3 is a pretty solid port that plays really well even on somewhat older rigs.

 

[TheFinish]

Aren't all Overwatch tourneys held on PC anyway? If so, what does it matter that a guy uses KB+M on console? Let them play however they want.

This seems like making a mountain out of a molehill, and Blizzard going "Bu-but you're not playing like we want you to play!", which, until they get a reliable way to tell who's using KB+M and who isn't, isn't worth diddly squat.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

It's a tricky one. Using KBM clearly gives players an advantage over joypads, however it is not doing anything the game or evidently the hardware doesn't specifically allow. It's not cheating in a traditional sense, but it is gaining an unfair competitive advantage.

 

[Spider RedNight]

What frustrates me most about this is that they complain about how KB+M isn't how console Overwatch is supposed to be played but at the same time all the patches/hero changes they make are tailored for the PC so what do you want from us?

Yeah, I think it's a jerk move for people to use KB+M on console when they know they'll have an evident advantage, especially considering that you have to alter your system and shell out money for something like that but at the same time, they aren't really thinking about console players when they update the game so why do they expect console players to suck it up and deal with unnecessary patches then complain when they try to play the game more like a PC, which is obviously how they want the game to be played?

 

[BrawlMan]

I used to use Xim4 for PS4 Overwatch due to disability. It worked brilliantly but, as a crutch of sorts, only made me an average player.

I have since gone to PC for all FPS but I'm very lucky that I could afford to. Blizzard shouldn't take any steps that would prevent disabled people doing as I did.

I can understand limitations to stop unfair practices in professional competitions but otherwise it's just a game and the issue is too small to cut off disabled players, who rely on electronic entertainment more than most.

And this why the option for KB+M should stay. Everyone should have an option on how they want to play. Not everyone is non-disabled. Publishers and developers need to earn from this. As long as people aren't hacking into the game (you don't exactly have to play with a KB+M to do that). Blizzard shouldn't have the "final say" in who can play with what. Luckily, they can't diddly dick, because MC & Sony won't let them. I find this ironic considering was usually all about PC beforehand. To the people complaining about others control options either change the sensitivity on your PS4/XONE controller, get gud, get a KB+M for your console, or play on the PC (HA!).

What frustrates me most about this is that they complain about how KB+M isn't how console Overwatch is supposed to be played but at the same time all the patches/hero changes they make are tailored for the PC so what do you want from us?

Yeah, I think it's a jerk move for people to use KB+M on console when they know they'll have an evident advantage, especially considering that you have to alter your system and shell out money for something like that but at the same time, they aren't really thinking about console players when they update the game so why do they expect console players to suck it up and deal with unnecessary patches then complain when they try to play the game more like a PC, which is obviously how they want the game to be played?

That is what we call two-faced hypocrisy my friend. That is why I don't deal with Blizzards shit at all.

 

[Headsprouter]

Was there any console-specific balance patches outside of the Torbjorn one ages ago? If not, I can see why console players are adapting. By all means do all you can to unlock your FPS potential and get the most out of OW.
Forking out however much it takes to get a KB+M to work on Xbox sounds akin to the entry fee of the pro controller or circle pad pro Nintendo sell, which dramatically improve the ability to pull off certain actions in games easily, if that kind of buy-in isn't cheating, neither is this.

Not to mention, It's an opportunity for console manufacturers to sell more hardware.

 

[spartandude]

I have a question:

To those who are arguing M+KB are such a level beyond standard controller input. Does it not then create a situation where, as the M+KB setups are not standard/shipped, but a paid accessory, you are directly condoning pay to win. In a very literal sense?

You brought shitty sandals to play football.

I went out and bought cleats.

I mopped the floor with you; Pay 2 win!

Except if I brought shitty sandals, I wouldn't be allowed on the field. I would be barred for not having the equipment required for entry. So the analogy doesn't fit.

Ok, what if I have a shitty mouse with a very low DPI and someone has a gaming mouse with a high DPI. Then they destroy me. Is that pay to win?

 

[Lightspeaker]

Consoles exist specifically to avoid differing hardware issues, so no, it doesn't dismiss it.

Arcade sticks exist and are generally viewed favourably by fighting game players as making it easier to control and pull off combos due to button layout, etc.

Consoles do not come with arcade sticks by default.

Therefore all fighting games are pay to win?

Racing games can be used with steering wheels which allows for generally improved response and accuracy of control.

Therefore all racing games are pay to win?


Sorry, I'm not buying that argument.

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

Speaking as someone who is trying to main Pharah, shove it in your ear Blizzard. You're the goobers who made it so I can't aim and use the jumpack at the same time with a control pad.

 

[Elijin]

Consoles exist specifically to avoid differing hardware issues, so no, it doesn't dismiss it.

Arcade sticks exist and are generally viewed favourably by fighting game players as making it easier to control and pull off combos due to button layout, etc.

Consoles do not come with arcade sticks by default.

Therefore all fighting games are pay to win?

Racing games can be used with steering wheels which allows for generally improved response and accuracy of control.

Therefore all racing games are pay to win?



Sorry, I'm not buying that argument.

My understanding is that fightpads are definitely pay 2 win. I'm not interested in fighting games, but my friend who's hugely into them has multiple times mentioned that if you want to be at the top, you get a fightpad. And if you don't get one, you don't want to be competitive at the top. Arent they like 150 bucks and include things like turbo buttons and stuff?

Steering wheel setups are based in improving the immersion experience. They don't actually create an immediate advantage.

 

[The Lunatic]

To be fair, this is a company that didn't want FoV sliders as it provided an "Unfair advantage".

As such, you should probably take their opinion with a massive amount of salt.

 

[mxfox408]

Lmao hahahaha, this article is hilarious, Blizzard said thats the reason they dont want to make it cross platform, and now people are using a keyboard and mouse on Consoles. So whats stopping them from going cross platform now? Lol meaningless article.

 

[Lunar Templar]

on the one hand

i guess it could be seen as 'scummy' to take advantage of something like that.

but on the other

it's not like it's hacking, or even cheating.

So ether get better with the game pad or get on the KB/M train.



Not that I care [http://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s480x480/e15/13126715_1626392661018457_676063797_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTI0ODAxMzI0OTQ4MTEyOTcwMg%3D%3D.2], of course