Blizzard to Remove "Sexy" Tracer Pose in Overwatch - Update
- Thread starter Nick Monroe
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It's not about good or bad. It's simply a matter of being sexy fitting Widowmaker's character more than Tracer's.Shinkicker444 said:
Might I suggest taking a chill pill? You are getting far, far to angry over something like this over someone who neither condemned the developer for doing this and in this topic in general.Dragonbums said:
And "non-creative"? Snip at me or everyone else in the thread who disagrees with you? Man, really shouldn't have wasted all that time writing mostly original stories back in the day if I'm un-creative. I know how the creative process works. The most I've ever changed in any thing has been a sentence or two. Never anything that I spent a decent amount writing, say a chapter or entire character. So something that took me five minutes to right and I keep a majority of the original and change a word to make it flow better.
I 100% agree on you on that point. blizzard is going to get shit no matter what they do at this point.Adam Jensen said:
Ironically GamerGate wanted to make developers feel safer but It kind of feels less safe for creators now more then ever.
I remember this situation once were a Call of Duty player asked that a certain asset be removed from one of the multiplayer maps; a religious picture was in a bathroom in one of the houses, and the (muslim) player complained they found this offensive and asked the devs to remove it. So they did without a shrug, and at no inconvenience to anyone.
But naturally the player base exploded. The most polite summary of their complaints would be: "How dare this guy be offended when we are not?", "This is censorship", and "We can't have developers abandoning their artistic vision!". Of course these people complain about people being entitled or thin skinned with one breath, whilst damning everyone with the other.
Same shit, different day. No one cares if you aren't offended by the butt pose. It doesn't matter if you think it is trivial. It equally doesn't matter if the devs accept a criticism and do a minor change to a game. There is literally no point to beta testing if people are forbidden from recommending improvements to the devs.
But naturally the player base exploded. The most polite summary of their complaints would be: "How dare this guy be offended when we are not?", "This is censorship", and "We can't have developers abandoning their artistic vision!". Of course these people complain about people being entitled or thin skinned with one breath, whilst damning everyone with the other.
Same shit, different day. No one cares if you aren't offended by the butt pose. It doesn't matter if you think it is trivial. It equally doesn't matter if the devs accept a criticism and do a minor change to a game. There is literally no point to beta testing if people are forbidden from recommending improvements to the devs.
I was just out this weekend and noticed a lot of women wearing yoga pants. I'm a man in my prime; sue me. In fact, I suspect that they weren't even going to workout at any point. I think they just like wearing yoga pants, and it has become an accepted form of attire nowadays. You can literately see every curve of their asses in them, whether you want to or not.
All I see from this screenshot is a cartoon character with unrealistic body proportions wearing yoga pants. It seems to me that the pose is only sexual because Tracer's ass is visible from yoga pants. If anything, the pose isn't the problem here. The character needs to redesigned in different clothes.
As for me, this is a complete nonissue. I doubt Tracer's ass is going cause the end of the world, and I thought the complaint from the forum post was a little dumb. The fact that Fipps has a daughter adds nothing to the conversation either. What does that have to do with yoga pants? However, I care so little that I almost didn't even want to pipe in about the issue. Do whatever you want with Tracer's design. All I care about is if the game is actually any good.
All I see from this screenshot is a cartoon character with unrealistic body proportions wearing yoga pants. It seems to me that the pose is only sexual because Tracer's ass is visible from yoga pants. If anything, the pose isn't the problem here. The character needs to redesigned in different clothes.
As for me, this is a complete nonissue. I doubt Tracer's ass is going cause the end of the world, and I thought the complaint from the forum post was a little dumb. The fact that Fipps has a daughter adds nothing to the conversation either. What does that have to do with yoga pants? However, I care so little that I almost didn't even want to pipe in about the issue. Do whatever you want with Tracer's design. All I care about is if the game is actually any good.
Blizzard has the trademark on "soon." In more than a decade of playing their games I've never seen them move this quickly to respond to ANYTHING. The response time on this matter is virtually unprecedented.MarsAtlas said:
Widowmaker is a very sexual character and it makes sense for her to pose like that, while Tracer is more happy go lucky and it doesn't fit her that much.Rathkor said:
I fail to see how the Madonna Whore complex applies, considering no one is calling Widowmaker a slut or demanding that Tracer take off those tight fitting pants of hers, or that Mercy's boobs shouldn't be on such display, or that Symmetra shouldn't be showing off her legs that much. I just...where are you getting all of these arguments from? But then again, when in doubt, just call anyone who ever criticized anything sexual in a game a puritan.
The main problem, from what I can tell, is pants. Widowmaker, wearing her "bootylicious" bodysuit, still looks like she has pants on, however tight they may be. Tracer, despite wearing a similar skintight suit, looks like her tights are so far up her bum she could probably taste them. Slightly less cheek-clevage would show that she is, in fact, wearing clothes and not body paint. The little twerky-tilt in her hips could be a little more upright, drawing less attention to the butt/crotch area and more toward her back/pack (to be fair, I'd probably stand that way too if my shorts were that far up my bum).
She's. Just. Standing.erttheking said:
It makes sense for anybody to pose like that because it's literally just standing and looking over your shoulder. You are sexualizing... standing.
I'm a bit confused. They are removing the pose but it reads like, "we decided to do it, you have nothing to do with it".
I doubt they had nothing to do with it. Because if no one said anything I have every confidence that the pose would still be there. I love how people are like, "it doesn't fit her character anyway". From everything I have seen, it does seem to fit her character, though I will never claim to be an expert on the games lore.
Also, for the sake of argument: There are people in real life who take very much pride in their physical appearance (and yes, how sexy they are, both sexes do this though not everyone in each sex does it). It's fine if they wanted to remove it, I don't really care. But I love how a bunch of morons treat this like some kind of victory. You aren't changing life, you are just making it so characters in games can never be compared to some people in real life. But I guess I must take into account the only type of woman I am ever to respect are ones who are essentially victims. Ones who are downtrodden and hideous, landed by fate into life situations that are terrible. I am not to respect women who care about and are proud of what they look like, are confident and hard working and aren't held back by anything.
I doubt they had nothing to do with it. Because if no one said anything I have every confidence that the pose would still be there. I love how people are like, "it doesn't fit her character anyway". From everything I have seen, it does seem to fit her character, though I will never claim to be an expert on the games lore.
Also, for the sake of argument: There are people in real life who take very much pride in their physical appearance (and yes, how sexy they are, both sexes do this though not everyone in each sex does it). It's fine if they wanted to remove it, I don't really care. But I love how a bunch of morons treat this like some kind of victory. You aren't changing life, you are just making it so characters in games can never be compared to some people in real life. But I guess I must take into account the only type of woman I am ever to respect are ones who are essentially victims. Ones who are downtrodden and hideous, landed by fate into life situations that are terrible. I am not to respect women who care about and are proud of what they look like, are confident and hard working and aren't held back by anything.
Cheesy Goodness said:
To me that shows some skewed priorities and exactly why the gaming industry is in the position it is right now. Censorship needs to take priority over whether a game is good or not because if people buy censored products there is no incentive for the industry to not continually censor every time someone decides to get offended. Cow towing to the easily offended who take the time to be offended becomes the path of least resistance. The ongoing problems with censorship are a bigger deal in my opinion than even a couple hundred hours of enjoyment from a video game.
Of course I've been saying this since the release of "Silent Hill 2" which was censored based on reactions to the demo, games keep selling as people run out lemminglike to buy them after censorship, and thus it doesn't take much time at all nowadays from things to go from complaint to censorship. Cutting a piece of artwork 48 hours after a feminist rant about it is disturbing, especially for a company like Blizzard that drags it's feet about everything, and shows exactly how casual the biggest companies have become over slicing content.
Yeah, this is the escapist's forum, not mine. I sometimes can't see why the mods warn people, so I took precautions.erttheking said:
1. Your link doesn't work.
2. I clearly stated that this particular case is "just" very suspicious.
3. If you deny that this outrage->cave-in is carried out frequently and makes cases like this seem to be very unlikely to happen because of this bullying, then please explain to me:
Why was Pillars of Eternity changed? Why was DoA Xtreme 3 barred from a release in NA? Why was GTA5 barred from Target in NZ? Why was the new Fire Emblem changed? What about Deus Ex: Mechanical Apartheid? What about Street Fighter 5?
Just from the top of my head.
So what happened? Do you think these were done for the artist's sake? If so, you're either lying or ignorant. And both does create resistance.
And this is everywhere, not just in gaming.
You generalize again. Why do you think that you'd know why people support Trump? Everybody because of one reason? Because he rallies racists with his remarks?
Yes. This definitely creates pushback. Ignorance especially. We're just talking about the gaming industry here. I've seen black people supporting Trump. I know of one game dev who's black and supports him. If he'd blame his misery (whatever that may be in your opinion) on people who are against racism, and he'd support Trump, it wouldn't make much sense now would it?
A huge deal of people are fed up with authoritarian people who even come into industries and tell devs that they must delete an optional pose they deem sexist for example. They're fed up of people who call all of them racists because they support Trump, because apparently, Trump is a racist.
So yes, in my opinion, stuff like this produces Trump supporters. I think this is horrible. But I don't know if you're a horrible person. Why you exaggerate so much is beyond me. I hope there is more to you than that.
Someone plz tell me where the female sex symbol stops and the female empowerment begins? If Tracer wanted to pose that way, and all the other characters get to pose that way, why can she now not? Because a single other woman said she can't? Would it help if a female dev made the pose? Because just by staring at this picture of an ass, it's been awful hard for me to tell who should be offended by it objectively, and I want to know which paperwork to file for PC permit.
And I'm not buying that developer post implying it being entirely their own decision, especially not when the other characters have the same pose, but inexplicably, the sexy character now doesn't. This sort of stuff breeds an atmosphere where nobody ends up keeping nice things. It's easy to laugh at the idea of the SJW manipulating your shit from the shadows just by whining, but this is a real example.
And I'm not buying that developer post implying it being entirely their own decision, especially not when the other characters have the same pose, but inexplicably, the sexy character now doesn't. This sort of stuff breeds an atmosphere where nobody ends up keeping nice things. It's easy to laugh at the idea of the SJW manipulating your shit from the shadows just by whining, but this is a real example.
Uhhhh, no. Because the pose, considering there's no other hints of sexuality from Tracer from what I'm aware, does kinda make it tonally inconsistent with her character. Is it a minor thing for someone to pick up on? Sure. But I don't think their logic is wrong, necessarily.09philj said:
09philj said:
No no no, you don't seem to understand how it works. You're both being calm and rational. You're supposed to call me a puritan or something to that effect.Travis Fischer said:
To be perfectly frank I myself don't think it's THAT sexual. I'm just explaining the difference between her and Widowmaker and why accusations of double standards don't really work.
I'm getting pissy because I'm tired of gamers talking out of their ass over things they don't know about and making faux outrage over it.Elfgore said:
It's especially maddening when they take up the mantle of 'artistic freedom' when really it's only 'support devs on whatever they want unless I don't like it'
[quot]And "non-creative"? Snip at me or everyone else in the thread who disagrees with you? Man, really shouldn't have wasted all that time writing mostly original stories back in the day if I'm un-creative. I know how the creative process works. The most I've ever changed in any thing has been a sentence or two.[/quote]
Cool, than if your familiar with the process, why is this situation foreign to you? Do you not get feedback from other people during the creation of your writing? Do you not have someone tells you what works/doesn't work, doesn't fit in?
Because if you altered something in your work based on the feedback of anyone than according to gamers this is censorship. You would call it- taking fucking criticism.
In this case you have a single person making a level toned OP post stating that the pose Tracker has seems out of place with her character. Blizzard responded with 'eh, yeah. We didn't like it anyway we will remove it.'
Woe is me, they worked hard on that pose. I'm pretty sure if it takes you insurmountable amount of work to put a character in a single pose, than chances are you aren't experienced or fast enough to work at Blizzard. Yet alone make a game of that tier in a timely and efficient manner.
Hate to break it to you, but the professional art world doesn't operate like that. If multiple people are saying your character is trite shit than it would probably be better for you to change it. Throwing a hissy fit and saying 'no' because you spent time on it doesn't change the fact that it's still shit.
You NEVER get super invested in any product you do. That's the fastest way to get absolutely nowhere in whatever creative endeavors you do.
Pick up a production/concept art book sometime. You'll see that devs would go all the way to the 3D modeling of said character and they decided to scrap it. All those hours down the drain. Doesn't matter because the newer end product came out much better than the original.